2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by hockeyman

has donnie the douche and gang of henchmen done anything since the election other then cry or fire people??

There was some whining. Also, they've been doing some aerobic exercises, mainly foot-stomping.

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[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

This is a silly argument.

Infectious disease specialists are the world's leading authority on infectious diseases. Covid is an infectious disease.

And yes, we should expect a vaccine. That's what the experts are telling us.

Stop with the "there are no experts" silliness. Remember, it is better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to....well, you know the rest.

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Pretty terrible experts then.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

No rage, just also speaking facts. You have people making decisions until we get a vaccine. Are we really going to be in this position 3 years from now? We are all HOPEFUL on a vaccine, but there are no guarantees.



In regards to experts, they have been way wrong. I can't blame them, this is new, but it's hard to trust experts when they were off. It's hard to trust experts when they say we may lockdown because the virus is more dangerous inside so we need to keep everyone... inside? Or where protesting is okay but going to church isn't. For example.

What were they so off about?

Here are the main points I remember them saying:

- This is going to be bad. Expect hundreds of thousands of deaths if we take precautions, millions if we don't.

- A vaccine will likely take a year to develop.

- Masks and social distancing will save many lives, but not all of us.

- We need to do our best to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed, stock up on PPE and other equipment, and buy ourselves some time to get in the best possible position to deal with this.


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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

Pretty terrible experts then.

How so?

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[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

What were they so off about?

Here are the main points I remember them saying:

- This is going to be bad. Expect hundreds of thousands of deaths if we take precautions, millions if we don't.

- A vaccine will likely take a year to develop.

- Masks and social distancing will save many lives, but not all of us.

- We need to do our best to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed, stock up on PPE and other equipment, and buy ourselves some time to get in the best possible position to deal with this.


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Originally Posted by JustRachel

How so?

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There were people predicting millions of deaths in America alone. People touting lockdowns. Being told to social distance... unless you protest. Ventilators will be a huge life saver. They couldn't have been more off.

[Boo]

So one of Biden covid advisors says a 4-6 week national lockdown would bring it under control. Plus the gov't would pay everyone for the lost wages. This after it came out about another covid advisor's words from years ago about hoping to not live past 75.

Good times already, good times.

[Boo]

Love some of these "Mandatory Requirements for All Gatherings" from the CA Dept of Health for Thanksgiving.


Attendance

Gatherings that include more than 3 households are prohibited. This includes everyone present, including hosts and guests. Remember, the smaller the number of people, the safer.

The host should collect names of all attendees and contact information in case contact tracing is needed later.

Gather Outdoors

Gatherings that occur outdoors are significantly safer than indoor gatherings. All gatherings must be held outside.

Attendees may go inside to use restrooms as long as the restrooms are frequently sanitized. (Thank you CA for letting us go to the bathroom)

Practice Physical Distancing and Hand Hygiene at Gatherings

For any gatherings permitted under this guidance, the space must be large enough so that everyone at a gathering can maintain at least a 6-foot physical distance from others (not including their own household) at all times.

Seating must provide at least 6 feet of distance (in all directions—front-to-back and side-to-side) between different households


As much as possible, any food or beverages at outdoor gatherings must be in single-serve disposable containers. If providing single-serve containers is not possible, food and beverages must be served by a person who washes or sanitizes their hands frequently, and wears a face covering. Self-serve items from communal containers should not be used.

Keep it short

Gatherings should be two hours or less. The longer the duration, the risk of transmission increases.

Rules for Singing, Chanting, and Shouting at Outdoor Gatherings


Singing, chanting, shouting, and physical exertion significantly increases the risk of COVID-19 transmission because these activities increase the release of respiratory droplets and fine aerosols into the air. Because of this, singing, chanting, and shouting are strongly discouraged, but if they occur, the following rules and recommendations apply:
All people who are singing or chanting should wear a face covering at all times while singing or chanting, including anyone who is leading a song or chant. Because these activities pose a very high risk of COVID-19 transmission, face coverings are essential to reduce the spread of respiratory droplets and fine aerosols;

People who are singing or chanting are strongly encouraged to do so quietly (at or below the volume of a normal speaking voice).
Instrumental music is allowed as long as the musicians maintain at least 6-foot physical distancing. Musicians must be from one of the three households. Playing of wind instruments (any instrument played by the mouth, such as a trumpet or clarinet) is strongly discouraged.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

There were people predicting millions of deaths in America alone. People touting lockdowns. Being told to social distance... unless you protest. Ventilators will be a huge life saver. They couldn't have been more off.

Except...they were right (besides the "unless you protest" nonsense that didn't come from any infectious disease specialist).

Our experience this far has taught us that a prediction of millions of deaths (without restrictions, which is what they said) is accurate. If this thing spread to all Americans, that's what we'd have. But we put restrictions in place to mitigate it and ended up with their prediction of hundreds of thousands being true if we did that.

Social distancing is, exactly as they said from Day 1, the reason we have hundreds of thousands of deaths rather than millions.

Ventilators have saved many lives. Doctors are still saving lives with them.

I'm not sure where you are getting your information, champ. There's a whole big world out there full of different points of view. Perhaps you'd enjoy looking around a bit.

Whoever told you the experts have been horribly wrong is simply lying to you. If I were you, I'd be offended by that. Whoever that was, they assumed you weren't sophisticated or worldly enough to see through the nonsense they're peddling. Were they correct?

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Boo

Love some of these "Mandatory Requirements for All Gatherings" from the CA Dept of Health for Thanksgiving.





Attendance



Gatherings that include more than 3 households are prohibited. This includes everyone present, including hosts and guests. Remember, the smaller the number of people, the safer.



The host should collect names of all attendees and contact information in case contact tracing is needed later.



Gather Outdoors



Gatherings that occur outdoors are significantly safer than indoor gatherings. All gatherings must be held outside.



Attendees may go inside to use restrooms as long as the restrooms are frequently sanitized. (Thank you CA for letting us go to the bathroom)



Practice Physical Distancing and Hand Hygiene at Gatherings



For any gatherings permitted under this guidance, the space must be large enough so that everyone at a gathering can maintain at least a 6-foot physical distance from others (not including their own household) at all times.



Seating must provide at least 6 feet of distance (in all directions—front-to-back and side-to-side) between different households





As much as possible, any food or beverages at outdoor gatherings must be in single-serve disposable containers. If providing single-serve containers is not possible, food and beverages must be served by a person who washes or sanitizes their hands frequently, and wears a face covering. Self-serve items from communal containers should not be used.



Keep it short



Gatherings should be two hours or less. The longer the duration, the risk of transmission increases.



Rules for Singing, Chanting, and Shouting at Outdoor Gatherings





Singing, chanting, shouting, and physical exertion significantly increases the risk of COVID-19 transmission because these activities increase the release of respiratory droplets and fine aerosols into the air. Because of this, singing, chanting, and shouting are strongly discouraged, but if they occur, the following rules and recommendations apply:

All people who are singing or chanting should wear a face covering at all times while singing or chanting, including anyone who is leading a song or chant. Because these activities pose a very high risk of COVID-19 transmission, face coverings are essential to reduce the spread of respiratory droplets and fine aerosols;



People who are singing or chanting are strongly encouraged to do so quietly (at or below the volume of a normal speaking voice).

Instrumental music is allowed as long as the musicians maintain at least 6-foot physical distancing. Musicians must be from one of the three households. Playing of wind instruments (any instrument played by the mouth, such as a trumpet or clarinet) is strongly discouraged.

Seems pretty standard stuff, mostly common sense for infectious disease protocols.

If I were to attend a gathering, I'd be doing that without having to be told...assuming others attending weren't from my household.

I guess people of California need to be given obvious, common sense advice??? Or maybe there's just a lot of people in Cali that don't care about spreading a disease that's already killed hundreds of thousands of Americans? Is that it? Do people just not care?

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[Boo]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Seems pretty standard stuff, mostly common sense for infectious disease protocols.

If I were to attend a gathering, I'd be doing that without having to be told...assuming others attending weren't from my household.

I guess people of California need to be given obvious, common sense advice??? Or maybe there's just a lot of people in Cali that don't care about spreading a disease that's already killed hundreds of thousands of Americans? Is that it? Do people just not care?

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The govt telling anyone how to celebrate a holiday should make any American shudder. Telling them how many people, where it has to be held and that they can go to the bathroom makes it even worse.

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Except...they were right (besides the "unless you protest" nonsense that didn't come from any infectious disease specialist).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...ks-11591790600

You can find tons of info on this.

Our experience this far has taught us that a prediction of millions of deaths (without restrictions, which is what they said) is accurate. If this thing spread to all Americans, that's what we'd have. But we put restrictions in place to mitigate it and ended up with their prediction of hundreds of thousands being true if we did that.

We can see the actions from states and countries. None of them show that millions are dying. You're making assumptions. Sweden has done better than the USA with virtually no action taken. New York is praised yet they did the worst out if all states and countries. You can see a trend that states who put sick people back in nursing homes, did worse. How much better would things be if that didn't happen, or if there were more actions taken to protect the elderly? Who knows.

Social distancing is, exactly as they said from Day 1, the reason we have hundreds of thousands of deaths rather than millions.

Ventilators have saved many lives. Doctors are still saving lives with them.

Tons of info out there on this, as well. They have also killed people too.

I'm not sure where you are getting your information, champ. There's a whole big world out there full of different points of view. Perhaps you'd enjoy looking around a bit.

Why are you talking to yourself? You seem to ignore one side of information.

Whoever told you the experts have been horribly wrong is simply lying to you. If I were you, I'd be offended by that. Whoever that was, they assumed you weren't sophisticated or worldly enough to see through the nonsense they're peddling. Were they correct?

The DATA is there, use it.

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It is what it is.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

It is what it is.

I can't unbury your head in the sand. I can only show you the way.


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[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by OscarOne

Right? I don't understand why people are this stupid. Just take it seriously for a couple of months, and this could be largely over. Instead, people refuse, then complain that we are still stuck in this mess.

I’ll pluck out this post because this idea keeps getting repeated...

We missed the f’ing boat.

Trying to get compliance from 350 million Americans all at once has proven to be impossible. If lockdowns work (let’s assume they do... I don’t know and don’t care), our best shot was early on in April / May when compliance was highest and roads were empty. Many of us gave it our best shot. For two months I was only around two people... my wife and my daughter. I went to the grocery store once every ~ 10 days. I stopped getting my son every weekend for that time period. That’s over, though. That’s just the story of one guy who did legitimately try early on and realized the Covid clock was going to continue to reset every single time a large enough group got together.

There have been hundreds of protests, there have been large outdoor parties, and there have been large scale sporting event celebrations. Why should I attempt this again, knowing with absolute certainty there will be another protest deemed more important than a pandemic? That’s one aspect. Another aspect is that a lot of people are mentally over this at this point. They’re willing to live (or die) with the consequences for whatever reasons they may have.

It’s a waste of time to even consider lockdowns again. Even if 98% of the population is on board early on, the remaining 2% will keep it going, and then some of the 98% will decide lockdowns are pointless, and then there will be a protest to save the turtles, and then we’re back to square one. It’s ova.

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

I can't unbury your head in the sand. I can only show you the way.


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The problem is, you only see one way. We will really never know what would have happened if we did nothing. We can only compare the data that we see from states and countries.

Heck, we don't even know how accurate the COVID death count is. Did they die with COVID or from? Itll be years before we see the full impact of everything.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Boo

The govt telling anyone how to celebrate a holiday should make any American shudder. Telling them how many people, where it has to be held and that they can go to the bathroom makes it even worse.

Meh.

First off, these "mandates" are merely suggestions. They're unenforceable, except maybe in some extreme situation. State troopers aren't going to be kicking in doors on Thanksgiving.

Second, tough times call for tough measures. People that lived through the depression or the Great War are laughing at our silliness today. Waaaaaahhh, I have to social distance.... waaaaaahhh.

We should be thankful that this is the worst crisis our generation is facing. And we should do what Americans do: roll up our sleeves and kick some butt. Crying about some silly unenforceable mandate during a deadly pandemic is soooo snowflakey, soooo millennial.

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

I’ll pluck out this post because this idea keeps getting repeated...



We missed the f’ing boat.



Trying to get compliance from 350 million Americans all at once has proven to be impossible. If lockdowns work (let’s assume they do... I don’t know and don’t care), our best shot was early on in April / May when compliance was highest and roads were empty. Many of us gave it our best shot. For two months I was only around two people... my wife and my daughter. I went to the grocery store once every ~ 10 days. I stopped getting my son every weekend for that time period. That’s over, though. That’s just the story of one guy who did legitimately try early on and realized the Covid clock was going to continue to reset every single time a large enough group got together.



There have been hundreds of protests, there have been large outdoor parties, and there have been large scale sporting event celebrations. Why should I attempt this again, knowing with absolute certainty there will be another protest deemed more important than a pandemic? That’s one aspect. Another aspect is that a lot of people are mentally over this at this point. They’re willing to live (or die) with the consequences for whatever reasons they may have.



It’s a waste of time to even consider lockdowns again. Even if 98% of the population is on board early on, the remaining 2% will keep it going, and then some of the 98% will decide lockdowns are pointless, and then there will be a protest to save the turtles, and then we’re back to square one. It’s ova.

I agree with this.

Lockdowns have not been taken seriously by Americans at large. If merely most of us do it, that accomplishes little.

Lockdowns are not the way.

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

The problem is, you only see one way. We will really never know what would have happened if we did nothing. We can only compare the data that we see from states and countries.



Heck, we don't even know how accurate the COVID death count is. Did they die with COVID or from? Itll be years before we see the full impact of everything.

I don't need to jump off a cliff to know what happens at the bottom. I may not be able to predict exactly which parts splatter exactly which way, but I can be sure it will be bad.

It's not that I only see one way. It's that I've looked around and rejected the nonsense. Whatever is left is still on the table.

Acting like nobody knows what we can or should do is simply nonsense. We can take some common sense measures and we can be sure they help at least some.

Corona viruses are not new, btw. There are plenty of them. Infectious Disease specialists know plenty about this family of mutating viruses. It's what they do, lol.

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[Jgil316]

A question was asked earlier about the impact of the Sturgis Bike Rally in S Dakota in 2020. Here is a link to an on-going paper regarding this event:

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checkin...ay%20be%20high.


Canada had Canadian Thanksgiving on October 11th - they were having a Covid increased infection rate prior to this date - and after this date. Now, they are 3-4 times higher infection rate than Oct 10 and it is trending exponentially. Yes, it is a cautionary tale for the USA.

To folks comparing the USA to the rest of the world and pointing to Europe as a "see, there isn't anything we could have done" - I have posted this before and will do it again:

As for handling Covid - I posted this info on OCT 25th - I have copied it and to the right put the numbers - NOW


Let's go back to that fateful day: January 20, 2020
On that day was the first recorded case of Covid in the USA
That same day was also the first recorded case of Covid in South Korea

S Korea is less than 900 miles from Mainland China
USA is approx 3800+ miles from Mainland China

In a population of 51 million, S Korea has:
Infections: 26,000 - 27,942 (now)
Deaths: 457 - 487 (now)

In a population of 331 million, USA has:
Infections: 8,831,000 - 10,708,728 (now)
Deaths: 230,000 - 247,398 (now)

Source of the above information: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

S Korea is on track to be the 2nd best major economy in the covid era:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/16...korea-success/


The USA has had zero leadership on this virus. The lies / misinformation has put us in a spot that is horrific.

[CJsHockeyCards]

Originally Posted by Boo

The govt telling anyone how to celebrate a holiday should make any American shudder. Telling them how many people, where it has to be held and that they can go to the bathroom makes it even worse.

Yea, it's disgusting. But this is what the left wants. More government telling us how to live our lives.

[Jgil316]

Originally Posted by CJsHockeyCards

Yea, it's disgusting. But this is what the left wants. More government telling us how to live our lives.

Absolutely wrong

Saving lives should be the number one priority for everyone - regardless of political affiliation.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

A question was asked earlier about the impact of the Sturgis Bike Rally in S Dakota in 2020. Here is a link to an on-going paper regarding this event:

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checkin...ay%20be%20high.


Canada had Canadian Thanksgiving on October 11th - they were having a Covid increased infection rate prior to this date - and after this date. Now, they are 3-4 times higher infection rate than Oct 10 and it is trending exponentially. Yes, it is a cautionary tale for the USA.

To folks comparing the USA to the rest of the world and pointing to Europe as a "see, there isn't anything we could have done" - I have posted this before and will do it again:

As for handling Covid - I posted this info on OCT 25th - I have copied it and to the right put the numbers - NOW


Let's go back to that fateful day: January 20, 2020
On that day was the first recorded case of Covid in the USA
That same day was also the first recorded case of Covid in South Korea

S Korea is less than 900 miles from Mainland China
USA is approx 3800+ miles from Mainland China

In a population of 51 million, S Korea has:
Infections: 26,000 - 27,942 (now)
Deaths: 457 - 487 (now)

In a population of 331 million, USA has:
Infections: 8,831,000 - 10,708,728 (now)
Deaths: 230,000 - 247,398 (now)

Source of the above information: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

S Korea is on track to be the 2nd best major economy in the covid era:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/16...korea-success/


The USA has had zero leadership on this virus. The lies / misinformation has put us in a spot that is horrific.

Realistically, we never could've done as well as S Korea. It's apples to oranges.

That being said, we could've come a whole heckuva lot closer. Jeez, we screwed this up big time. I personally think the biggest difference wasn't the leadership (though that was a big part). I think the American culture is the biggest problem.

We simply don't have that sense of community that some other nations have. We are a nation of selfish, instant gratification, me-first types.

When Americans have needed to step up in the past, we've done well. Not this time. China, if you're reading this, please don't invade us now. We are a nation of whiny brats that could never handle what our grandparents did.

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by CJsHockeyCards

Yea, it's disgusting. But this is what the left wants. More government telling us how to save our lives.

Fixed it for you.

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[mattglet]

Originally Posted by CJsHockeyCards

Yea, it's disgusting. But this is what the left wants. More government telling us how to live our lives.

All of the left? Some of the left? Or just some people on an internet forum that you group into the left?

[cnewby]

"Covid Era"

[BGT Masters]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Fixed it for you.

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If that was what the government was trying to do they would have enacted a calorie intake mandate and a social exercise mandate as well.