BGS Black Labels, Joe Clemons (eBay ID: wjc75056), and Illegitimate Grading

[kyaa]

Originally Posted by anusinha

Now that we have numbers, we can do statistical modeling to figure out the confidence interval of whether shenanigans are in place.

No we don't. These are not the true numbers. We have submission results--many in the OP--linked to Joe dating from well before this chunk they showed Superdan. They are trying to fool everyone with incomplete results. Don't fall for it.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by Peties Army

I’d be interested to see how Many cards were 9 and below

I think he stated above that 50 didn't make MG. Which is less than half of ones that earned BL.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by Blue_Devil

111 out of 916

That’s like 12.1179%

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by kyaa

No we don't. These are not the true numbers. We have submission results--many in the OP--linked to Joe dating from well before this chunk they showed Superdan. They are trying to fool everyone with incomplete results. Don't fall for it.

Instead of the "this is bad data" replies, and nothing to refute it, please reply with your rebuttal that has your evidence.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by kyaa

No we don't. These are not the true numbers. We have submission results--many in the OP--linked to Joe dating from well before this chunk they showed Superdan. They are trying to fool everyone with incomplete results. Don't fall for it.

But even the incomplete results are pretty damning. 14% made Black Label while less than 7% didn't meet 9.5 MG?

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

So 14% of VERIFIED cards submitted earned Black Label. I'm guessing that's WAY WAY WAY higher than average. Have we determined how many earned non-BL Pristine 10 grade?

We have many expert graders on here they should be able to confirm %

[kyaa]

Originally Posted by superdan49

This list of Black Labels is inclusive of every last order I saw in that account, excepting for the single BCCG order.

But you did not see all of his actual orders, especially not any before November, 2018. They gave you an incomplete list--either because Joe grades through another account as well, or because BGS deleted some of his submissions.

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by kyaa

But you did not see all of his actual orders, especially not any before November, 2018. They gave you an incomplete list--either because Joe grades through another account as well, or because BGS deleted some of his submissions.

Just like you require from everyone else, I need to see your evidence please.

[kyaa]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

But even the incomplete results are pretty damning. 14% made Black Label while less than 7% didn't meet 9.5 MG?

They aren't but we still shouldn't treat them as meaningful. They are incomplete. We know that. This is just Joe and BGS's attempt to present partial information that looks favorable for them. It's dishonest and misleading.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by kyaa

But you did not see all of his actual orders, especially not any before November, 2018. They gave you an incomplete list--either because Joe grades through another account as well, or because BGS deleted some of his submissions.

Yeah I can only analyze what was in that account. I can confirm that there were no orders earlier than 11/16/2018.

[mattglet]

And stop with the bolding of text, reply like a normal human being.

[dmanrico]

Superdan - I think your position of being an "unbiased fact-finder" is the right one for this purpose. As such, I am curious why you decided to include a verbal estimate from Joe of 50 cards that did not meet min-grade in your reporting? That is a fact that cannot be verified and is contrary to your stated position.

EDIT: I do see that you labeled it as unverified, but that number is now being used to calculate the %. It think to be fair to the position we should just include data that can be verified.

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by mattglet

And stop with the bolding of text, reply like a normal human being.

You should bold your text! Bold is the new unbold

[kyaa]

Originally Posted by mattglet

Just like you require from everyone else, I need to see your evidence please.

Look at some of the cards in the OP in August or September 2018, heck, even the 22 Leaf Black Labels in a row from December. We can link those to Joe through his eBay account. Yet they aren't in SuperDan's list. That's the evidence.

Even SuperDan admitted he only saw back to 11/2018. Why? That's bizarre--my submission history with BGS goes back years--why do we only get 6 months from Joe? It is undeniably incomplete.

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by Peties Army

You should bold your text! Bold is the new unbold

Oh snap, I had no idea!

[mrbasepauly]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Yeah I can only analyze what was in that account. I can confirm that there were no orders earlier than 11/16/2018.

So what SuperDan found is that Joe has never submitted a BGS grading before the date of 11/16/2018, according to his BGS account. Is that believable?

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Yeah I can only analyze what was in that account. I can confirm that there were no orders earlier than 11/16/2018.

And that is very suspicious, is it not? If dude has nothing to hide, why not grant access to prior subs? And where are those prior subs? On another account? Magically cleansed?

[hxcmilkshake]

How far back does history go? Can't we get everything?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[imb4]

I'm not caught up yet but would like to randomly contribute my appreciation to the OP and others that have helped bring this to light.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by NoleinJax

Thanks Dan. How many non black label 10's did he receive? Now some will come on here saying that his % isn't that high, but will neglect to recall that Joe said most of his black labels come from smaller subs and his larger subs consists of those cards he thinks will gem, but not get a black label.

Joe agreed to provide data only from Black Labels, not regular Pristine 10s. I can tell you that all orders with Black Labels, excepting for one, had the Black Labels clustered together at the top of the order.

[auburn35]

Maybe I overlooked them but I don't see those two Tiger Woods black labels on this list

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by kyaa

Look at some of the cards in the OP in August or September 2018, heck, even the 22 Leaf Black Labels in a row from December. We can link those to Joe through his eBay account. Yet they aren't in SuperDan's list. That's the evidence.

Even SuperDan admitted he only saw back to 11/2018. Why? That's bizarre--my submission history with BGS goes back years--why do we only get 6 months from Joe? It is undeniably incomplete.

Thank you.

[Blue_Devil]

Originally Posted by kyaa

Look at some of the cards in the OP in August or September 2018, heck, even the 22 Leaf Black Labels in a row from December. We can link those to Joe through his eBay account. Yet they aren't in SuperDan's list. That's the evidence.

Even SuperDan admitted he only saw back to 11/2018. Why? That's bizarre--my submission history with BGS goes back years--why do we only get 6 months from Joe? It is undeniably incomplete.

I only did my own order one time. I just join group subs. The one time I dropped a small order off was in Sept of 2012. That order still shows in my account.

[dmanrico]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

And that is very suspicious, is it not? If dude has nothing to hide, why not grant access to prior subs? And where are those prior subs? On another account? Magically cleansed?

Oh wowzers. I missed that the data only goes back to November 2018. That doesn't make sense.

[WhacksPacks]

Been an observer since page one. List is obviously and ABSOLUTELY incomplete. Heck those Tiger Woods BLs aren't even on there.