BGS Black Labels, Joe Clemons (eBay ID: wjc75056), and Illegitimate Grading

[notfast]

Originally Posted by pejc300

Someone tweet this at Rovell:

Former Beckett employee, and personal friend of senior Beckett Grading Services graders, receives astronomically high grading results, netting him hundreds of thousands of dollars. Independent investigator confirms his submission results have been deleted from Beckett Grading database.

Or dude could have had a different account he submitted under?

You can’t jump to “omg files were shredded” when there is WAY more likely scenarios.

[NoleinJax]

Originally Posted by imb4

Dan is posting what he was given. If he is transcribing whitewashed data, that's the fault of BGS or whoever is covering for him here. It's not necessarily Dan who washed the data, and I can't really see his incentive to wash it. I can see his incentive to post obviously washed data, though.

I was responding to kyaa but forgot to quote him.

[LEAF]

[QUOTE=dizzydolse;14733658]

Originally Posted by LEAF

This guy is truly a character. BG, are you intentionally treating us as infants because it may be believable to some or what? It has gotten so laughable that I think you may actually be trolling us now.

Honestly, people like you make me laugh.
Ask any huge grader to look at their account and orders don’t go back indefinitely. Instead of acting foolish, ask around.
BG

[jasonhopkins]

Originally Posted by stryk

I just can't get over the fact that the Tiger Woods cards are not included at all? I can't believe anything else when those cards graded January of this year are not in the history.

Brian, how do you account for this?

[ThoseBackPages]

i do not believe Dan is lying

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by notfast

Or dude could have had a different account he submitted under?

You can’t jump to “omg files were shredded” when there is WAY more likely scenarios.

I’d bet on this.

Spread around and try to hide the grades

[jasonhopkins]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

i do not believe Dan is lying

I don't think anyone does...

[pejc300]

[QUOTE=LEAF;14733675]

Originally Posted by dizzydolse

Honestly, people like you make me laugh.
Ask any huge grader to look at their account and orders don’t go back indefinitely. Instead of acting foolish, ask around.
BG

Cool...so Joe knows this, right? He knows his account only goes back that far, and then gives his info to SuperDan, but we all know he's been grading cards for years. So how does this help us at all? How is this transparent?

You said all along that your boy (employee) Joe would be transparent and honest and we would get the info. How does this very limited information help us?

[jr24ai3]

Originally Posted by LEAF

Beckett website limits data based on number of orders I believe.
My account only shows back to january.
Fact
BG

I can confirm this as well. It only went back 28 orders to 2015 but there were plenty prior to this.

[dizzydolse]

Originally Posted by pejc300

I WANT TO PUT ON THE RECORD FOR EVERYONE TO SEE THAT BECKETT GRADING SCRUBBED JOE'S SUBMISSION RECORDS.

LET THAT SINK IN.

His records are gone. How does that sit with everyone?

Most of us had a strong suspicion this was a real possibility anyway. Why did it take 6 days lol...

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

i do not believe Dan is lying

No logical person thinks that. He clearly wasn’t given all the info

[Kuch86]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

i do not believe Dan is lying

I don't think anybody is saying Dan is lying. He is just working with incomplete information and has been handcuffed upon what he can reveal. The limited information he has provided is still quite damning in itself though.

[DaRitz]

Originally Posted by jeff24k

This is laughable. Joe would have been better served going radio silent than to respond this way.

I'd fix that to: Joe would have been better served going radio silent... from the beginning.

The pitchforks go most aggressively towards those who engage with the board.

This is why Beckett remains silent.

Thanks, Dan, for posting raw data. Hopefully you can avoid the worst of it.

For what it's worth, anyone who questions SuperDan's credibility gets dropped down a few pegs in my book.

[LEAF]

Originally Posted by jasonhopkins

Brian, how do you account for this?

Were they graded before November?
BG

* also, these epic Tigers appear to be $200 cards... until I actually looked I thought they were $5k cards based on the mania here...

[blackbears86]

Ok, a little re-cap and my thoughts:


First of all Dan: thank you for the information. I realize you can only post what you have been given.


The facts:

1. The list is clearly incomplete: Why are the tiger blacks and leaf blacks not on the list? Others are slowly being uncovered. How many more will be found?
2. Why does Joe clemons orders only go back to November 2018?
3. Why the strikingly high percentage of blacks in the first place? Over 100 since November 2018? That seems like an insane number
4. Why wouldn't Joe clemons let Dan examine the number of Gem 10's he received?
5. why no screenshots?
6. Does Joe have one or more alternate submission accounts?

I really do hope the FBI is monitoring this thread.

[Kuch86]

Originally Posted by LEAF

Were they graded before November?
BG

* also, these epic Tigers appear to be $200 cards... until I actually looked I thought they were $5k cards based on the mania here...

It doesn't matter what the value of them is. Are you really this dense?

You are tarnishing your own brand and you don't realize it.

[jasonhopkins]

Originally Posted by LEAF

Were they graded before November?
BG

* also, these epic Tigers appear to be $200 cards... until I actually looked I thought they were $5k cards based on the mania here...

Jan 2019. It's been mentioned multiple times.

[ThoseBackPages]

if Joe knew records only go back 6 months, what was the delay?

[LEAF]

[QUOTE=pejc300;14733683]

Originally Posted by LEAF

Cool...so Joe knows this, right? He knows his account only goes back that far, and then gives his info to SuperDan, but we all know he's been grading cards for years. So how does this help us at all? How is this transparent?

You said all along that your boy (employee) Joe would be transparent and honest and we would get the info. How does this very limited information help us?

Apparently, Dan told Joe last night he was only going to go back to December 1 for his analysis. At Joe's behest, Dan included all information including November instead.

BG

[Jray]

I believe the # of 10s and not just Black Labels plays a huge role in coming to a conclusion here. I would suspect that any individuals perpetrating this fraud would understand that giving all Black Labels could lead to an ugly situation (The graders are potentially hiding this from their superiors). I see the fact that this information was held back as pretty telling. If this information is withheld I see only one conclusion.

Out of curiosity. Is it not possible some grading results are not added to the account (i.e. in person grading that happens at shows). I am not experienced in using BGS but the idea of archiving items seems to strike a chord for me.

[kylocke]

Originally Posted by pejc300

Just checked my account. Shows 60 orders dating back to 2013.

I just check ours, it only shows back to 2/2018 (30 orders). We have been submitting at least 1 a month for the last 3 years so we should see some going back at least to 2016/2017. So we have orders missing on our account.

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by LEAF

Were they graded before November?
BG

* also, these epic Tigers appear to be $200 cards... until I actually looked I thought they were $5k cards based on the mania here...

$200, $.10 or $ 5k , who cares?

That statement makes it seem like you are trying to find a reason to believe your friend rather then find the truth

[dizzydolse]

[QUOTE=LEAF;14733675]

Originally Posted by dizzydolse

Honestly, people like you make me laugh.
Ask any huge grader to look at their account and orders don’t go back indefinitely. Instead of acting foolish, ask around.
BG

Ok Brian. Let's assume for a moment I am acting foolish. Could you kindly, and very simply explain, in your opinion, where the missing BL that have been confirmed linked to your employee have gone? And why we can't see records of them? And if you're reasoning is simply that the records don't go past a couple months, please don't bother responding.

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by LEAF

Were they graded before November?
BG

* also, these epic Tigers appear to be $200 cards... until I actually looked I thought they were $5k cards based on the mania here...

Brian, you keep reverting back to your snarky, less mature alter ego (or true self). I like the professional Brian we saw on day 2.

The issue around those wasn't the value (which in a black label after the Masters is worth MUCH MORE than $200). It's the fact that there were no black labels, out of hundreds, in 18 years. Tiger wins the Masters, then Joe gets 2 Black Labels. Pay better attention.

[ThoseBackPages]

its been about 13 years since i subbed to BGS, but im sure if i bothered to sign-in and look, its got to be on the website somewhere