Rolling Thread for 90s Fakes and Backdoored Cards

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Opinion on this one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICHAEL-JOR...8AAOSwaNVe8G0w

Legit.

Originally Posted by cardrcomeback

How can you tell Thunder Raves are fake? Looking a Griffey I want to get.

No fakes in baseball, so you don't have anything to worry about. With all Fleer/Skybox sets, there's a chance you'll run across a backdoored copy, but I don't think I've ever seen a backdoored baseball rave...

[cardrcomeback]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Legit.



No fakes in baseball, so you don't have anything to worry about. With all Fleer/Skybox sets, there's a chance you'll run across a backdoored copy, but I don't think I've ever seen a backdoored baseball rave...

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

[taniel]

What about this one?
I think this is a fake.

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by taniel

What about this one?
I think this is a fake.

No idea, but if it is fake, then it'll be the first time they try it on a lower end card. I assume they normally fake the more expensive ones.

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by taniel

What about this one?
I think this is a fake.

das ist gut

[rogermaris]

Fake 1998-99 Thunder Rave Michael Jordan:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-99-Sky...torefresh=true






Fake 2000 Ovation Kobe Bryant:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Upper-...cAAOSwFxpe-sgD







Fake 1996-97 Ultra Platinum Medallion Michael Jordan:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Ult...torefresh=true

[rogermaris]

Fake 1998-99 Thunder Rave Kobe Bryant:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-99-SKY...fC7SM&LH_BIN=1

[rj.cataldo]

Originally Posted by rj.cataldo

Any reason to believe they have started to fake Jordan Thunder and Lightning? I feel like I've been seeing more listed lately, when before they seemed to pop up less frequently (perhaps just the Last Dance). I don't have any specifc reason to suspect, but I know other foil inserts have been faked before.

I know Khal’s view was no, but I can’t help but be suspicious of what seems like a large uptick in these cards. More and more ungraded thunder and lightning and it seems like they are far more available than they were historically. It also looks like the card has dropped in price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TimBuckTwo]

Are Jordan 1997 Skybox Thunder and Lightning Holos known to have fakes printed of them?

Any examples of real and fake out there please?

Just read the post above mine. Have a traveling guy hit up a Craigslist post with this exact card. Ungraded.

I am suspect due to circumstances alone. Traveling, ungraded, etc

[TimBuckTwo]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I don't think so. The back of those has that unique patter to the foil that looks like it's damaged. I haven't seen a consistency in that pattern amongst the copies showing up.

What is the patter pattern?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by TimBuckTwo

What is the patter pattern?

Look at this one. See how the back has all these vertical marks that looks like someone scratched the foil off?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/362986462698

[rogermaris]

Adding these to this thread for the sake of completeness:

Fake 1997-98 Metal Universe Precious Metal Gems Red Michael Jordan:

https://www.greyflannelauctions.com/...-LOT43753.aspx



Fake 1997-98 Metal Universe Precious Metal Gems Championship Michael Jordan:

https://www.greyflannelauctions.com/...-LOT43752.aspx



Fake 1998-99 Skybox Premium Star Rubies Michael Jordan:

https://www.greyflannelauctions.com/...-LOT43750.aspx



Backdoored 1997-98 E-X2001 Essential Credentials Tracy McGrady:

https://www.greyflannelauctions.com/...-LOT43749.aspx

[rogermaris]

For anyone interested, I've updated the main post to include information about backdoored playmakers theatre cards. I've also added images of real and fake PMG reds.

[Gem10collection]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

For anyone interested, I've updated the main post to include information about backdoored playmakers theatre cards. I've also added images of real and fake PMG reds.

Ah man, that's like opening the secret vault. Thank you!!! Even still, for some of us students, even if the teacher lays everything out perfectly we still don't understand the lesson lol.

[Kuch86]

Hey guys bought a couple cheap Fleer metal inserts of Jordan from 1996-97 and 1997-98 Fleer Metal off eBay from a seller (who I thought was USA but ended up shipping from Singapore). Cards were Metal Shredders and All Millennium. First thing I noticed was how thin and flimsy the card stock seems. Almost feels like a sticker card. Can anyone confirm to me whether the card stock on those is indeed so thin/flimsy feeling?
Cards were cheap so not too concerned just don't want to move them on to others if they are indeed fake. Thanks!

[Harper]

Originally Posted by CT2

Hey there!
Great thread to keep everyone aware.

Please also keep in mind the Fleer/Skybox Autographics Century Marks that were backdoored with the Fleer bankruptcy back then. They all had no numbering but the original sparkle foil on it. I do own one without numbering.



And no, I don't intend to number it since it's in my PC and I know of the facts.

Cheers, Holger

I would really like some expert advice on this set. I posted in my rolling mailday post, but it got buried to the 2nd page in about 2 hours.

For those that don't know, I am a Ron Harper player collector and I tend to pick up some duplicates of high end cards. I've never pack pulled an autographics, but I do have a handful from different years on players that I think would be very unlikely to be faked/forged.

My question is about the stamping used on these "fake" autographic century marks vs. regular versions.

I have 4 numbered 97-98 Autographics Century Marks cards. They all have the embossed Skybox seal with text arching over the top of the circular seal which says Autographics and text underneath the seal that says Century Club. The text is bubbly. The "autographics" text looks the same on low end base from 96-97, 97-98, and 99-00 that I have. On my 2 unnumbered copies of the Ron Harper Autographics with Century Mark foil, the stamp is in block lettering with more clear letter bordering, similar to the example I have with a very low end 98-99 Autographics. On the Harpers, the Auto- part of autographics is very hard to see if visible at all, but this is clear on the one 98-99 example I have. There is no Century Club text on these cards at the bottom either.

These seem like a bankruptcy release that was stamped after the fact. What confuses me is... why go through the trouble of fake stamping these cards if you don't fake number the cards?? And in both instances, I got the cards for at or below the cost of a base version, and they were listed on eBay as base versions. One guy swore he got it from a pack of cards he opened 20 years earlier and sold it to me for $10 as a BIN.

Hoping someone with more pack pulled autographics cards can shed some light. Could cards released from Series 1 and Series 2 have different stamps? Did some players send in their cards in multiple batches and so a different stamp was being used later on? Did Skybox used signed and unnumbered Century Marks cards as replacements for damaged base cards that they ran out of replacements for? Did someone at Skybox mess up and forget to number some of the cards and use the wrong stamp before packing them out?

While bankruptcy seems the most likely option, the Ron Harper cards rarely pop up and I wonder if there are less than the expected /100 due to internal issues at Skybox.

[CT2]

Originally Posted by Harper

I would really like some expert advice on this set. I posted in my rolling mailday post, but it got buried to the 2nd page in about 2 hours.

For those that don't know, I am a Ron Harper player collector and I tend to pick up some duplicates of high end cards. I've never pack pulled an autographics, but I do have a handful from different years on players that I think would be very unlikely to be faked/forged.

My question is about the stamping used on these "fake" autographic century marks vs. regular versions.

I have 4 numbered 97-98 Autographics Century Marks cards. They all have the embossed Skybox seal with text arching over the top of the circular seal which says Autographics and text underneath the seal that says Century Club. The text is bubbly. The "autographics" text looks the same on low end base from 96-97, 97-98, and 99-00 that I have. On my 2 unnumbered copies of the Ron Harper Autographics with Century Mark foil, the stamp is in block lettering with more clear letter bordering, similar to the example I have with a very low end 98-99 Autographics. On the Harpers, the Auto- part of autographics is very hard to see if visible at all, but this is clear on the one 98-99 example I have. There is no Century Club text on these cards at the bottom either.

These seem like a bankruptcy release that was stamped after the fact. What confuses me is... why go through the trouble of fake stamping these cards if you don't fake number the cards?? And in both instances, I got the cards for at or below the cost of a base version, and they were listed on eBay as base versions. One guy swore he got it from a pack of cards he opened 20 years earlier and sold it to me for $10 as a BIN.

Hoping someone with more pack pulled autographics cards can shed some light. Could cards released from Series 1 and Series 2 have different stamps? Did some players send in their cards in multiple batches and so a different stamp was being used later on? Did Skybox used signed and unnumbered Century Marks cards as replacements for damaged base cards that they ran out of replacements for? Did someone at Skybox mess up and forget to number some of the cards and use the wrong stamp before packing them out?

While bankruptcy seems the most likely option, the Ron Harper cards rarely pop up and I wonder if there are less than the expected /100 due to internal issues at Skybox.

I can only speak for myself but I somwhere sometime read about what's your most likely option as well as I think it's the most likely option.

So the bankruptcy thing is most likely to have happened to these cards just like many many other cards being rushed out of Fleer's offices back then like uncut sheets (i think directly from the presses) as well as lots and lots of cards that were intended to be used as replacements and therefore not yet numbered.

As for the Mourning above from my PC, I hace seen quiet a few out there on ebay when Fleer went down in 2004. I have never checked that stamping to be honest since I have yet to find a numbered copy of the CM for my PC. I can only compare to my base version of Mourning and the base says Autograph in block lettering. Same on my unnumbered CM version there is also block lettering but this stamp also says Century Club.

And now for your questions... (I'm not THAT expert but just to my knowledge from 29 years of collecting):

Could cards released from Series 1 and Series 2 have different stamps?
- Possible but never checked that


Did some players send in their cards in multiple batches and so a different stamp was being used later on?
- Don't think they let the players sign on multiple occasions so should all be the same stamps used.


Did Skybox used signed and unnumbered Century Marks cards as replacements for damaged base cards that they ran out of replacements for?
- Absolutely. That's what was told back then when the guys "cleaned" the closets and threw everything on the secondary markets. I guess there was a story in the Beckett magazine or somewhere.


Did someone at Skybox mess up and forget to number some of the cards and use the wrong stamp before packing them out?
- What they did back then is, they replaced cards with the exact same numbering, the damaged i.e. sent-in cards had. So, all the replacement cards didn't have a numbering fomr the start but were numbered as they were needed. I would think (to aswer your other question above) that there were also 100 copies out there to replace every CM out there from packs being damaged.



Hope this helps a bit.


P.S.: That's one reason btw why it's so hard to determine fakes of the backdoored CM autos because all they needed to be a real CM was its numbering. Go check how many 001/100s there are out there because the first fakers thought it would be a good idea to fake the first one made to get another extra dollar out of it. Darn fakers

[dustin42]

Does anyone know why this card doesn't have the "He's Back"?

[rogermaris]

Fake 1997-98 Skybox Premium Star Rubies Penny Hardaway:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-Sky...4AAOSwZBVfKCyd

[rogermaris]

Fake 1997-98 Skybox Premium Star Rubies Kobe Bryant:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-skybox...sAAOSwXwdfMa3J

[Rob 23]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Fake 1997-98 Skybox Premium Star Rubies Penny Hardaway:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-Sky...4AAOSwZBVfKCyd

Thanks for this one Roger, I had considered bidding.

[NarnM]

Is this Antoine Walker Star Rubies fake?

http://https:/www.ebay.com/itm/254577100803

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by NarnM

Is this Antoine Walker Star Rubies fake?

http://https:/www.ebay.com/itm/254577100803

Looks good to me.

[NarnM]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Looks good to me.

Thank you!

[Rob 23]