So who's manipulating the Jordan 89-91 Fleer PSA 10s now???

[pga-ink]

Hey guys,

Not sure if anyone has noticed or if this has already been brought up lately, but not for some reason all of the 1989-1991 Fleer Jordans in PSA 10 are out of control. Just a month or two months ago, they were selling for what they always normally have, sometimes less on auction.

Now the 1989 Fleer for example is $300+ when it was just $80-110 not even a couple months ago. Ive also seen the 1990 Fleer All-Star card, which Ive seen sell for as low as $50 on auction & $79.99-99 on BIN, is not at $250+???

Someone has got to be manipulating these. These cards have routinely sat for months & auction of normal prices, but to now get out of control, screams that someone is playing the prices. There would no reason that a 1991 Fleer Jordan in PSA 10 should be at $50+ on auction right now, when they're usually lucky to even hit $15-20 on auction.

Im sure it's the same group of people that are heavy graders & sparked the pricing on the 1987-88s within the past year or two, that have ironically came back down to earth now, haha.

Just seems like it's getting a bit out of control & is kinda obvious in a way...

Anyone else notice this & all opinions welcomed!

Thanks!

[jcardstore]

illuminati

[phdbeckett]

I just sold 2 1989-90s A sticker and and Base BGS 9.5 Sticker did less than I thought ($474), but base was over $200.

That being said the Sticker was very very low pop, and the base is a tough issue to BGS 9.5.

The guy that bought it off me, just sold it for $1500

[AbraCalabro]

just got to love this "hobby"

a snippet from an article originally found on SBNation

"I almost got stripped of my hide for saying this at a corporate meeting but the trading card category during those boom years was very much like a ponzi scheme or a pyramid game. It was all driven by potential future resale value," Massien says. "If I can sell a card I bought for $1 to you for $2, that’s okay if you can sell it to somebody else for $4 and it’s okay for the person who paid $4 because they can sell it for $6. But eventually, the poor schmo at the end who paid $10 for this piece of cardboard looks around and he can’t find anybody who’ll pay more, just like with a chain letter. I would like to think that my puny contribution to the trading card category was the realization that if you took standard consumer packaged goods marketing techniques and applied it to a pyramid scam, you could make that pyramid a helluva lot bigger and the scam would last a helluva lot longer."



the sad part is these people will dupe many and somewhere along the line a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money. if they're low pop i can understand, but if we're talking ungraded, or high pop, then my statement stands.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

the sad part is these people will dupe many and somewhere along the line a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money. if they're low pop i can understand, but if we're talking ungraded, or high pop, then my statement stands.

"flippers" are the only ones who end up losing out which is fine by me

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

"flippers" are the only ones who end up losing out which is fine by me

I can get on board with that.

[pga-ink]

Originally Posted by phdbeckett

I just sold 2 1989-90s A sticker and and Base BGS 9.5 Sticker did less than I thought ($474), but base was over $200.

That being said the Sticker was very very low pop, and the base is a tough issue to BGS 9.5.

The guy that bought it off me, just sold it for $1500

Some of the Stickers I can understand, those are tough to grade due to all of the numerous production flaws on them, but a 1991 Fleer (blue border) & 1990 Fleer (mass produced) in PSA 10s now all of a sudden bringing $50++, is hilarious. The 1990 Fleer is easy to find in PSA 10 & I havent looked, but would bet it's the easiest & most plentiful in PSA 10. Ive seen them constantly sell for under $20, sometimes under $15 on auction & the BIN ones just sat at $25 or so.

Im sure it's a group of people trying to spark a trend in the pricing like that do with all of the other stuff. They artificially inflate auctions over & over trying to make the price "stick" then drop a bunch of them spread across accts, mainly probstein & pwcc, so they then can go pump them up themselves...

[nissandriver77]

lmao.... Invest boy's gonna make millions i tells ya.

Sell everything you have and i mean everything and invest in cardboard , it is the future .

[Mongol]

I think it's a domino affect starting with Pwcc
Ever since the Psa 10 fleer mj Rc sold
For 30k last month, the price manipulation trickled down.
Psa 10 fleer 86 mj sticker also sold 15k. It's just a joke.

[Mongol]

I would also like to warm everyone of a eBay member t.marieee
He keeps posting mj rookies, asks for direct invoice and doesn't ship out the card.
Beware. He has a BGS 9 mj Rc up now. Previously had a BGS 9.5 all 9.5 subs.
A buddy of mine got fooled by him, reported him to Paypal and eBay yet he's still on eBay.

[Scottish Punk]

I keep waiting for this PSA 10 bubble to pop. It hasn't yet. There is ridiculous prices for everything across the board. 90 Fleer for hundreds really? Aren't their boxes and boxes of this stuff lying around? Skybox next?

[6celtics33]

Originally Posted by phdbeckett

I just sold 2 1989-90s A sticker and and Base BGS 9.5 Sticker did less than I thought ($474), but base was over $200.

That being said the Sticker was very very low pop, and the base is a tough issue to BGS 9.5.

The guy that bought it off me, just sold it for $1500

I was actually the guy that won your 89 sticker for $474. I sold it and an 87 Jordan sticker 9.5 to a friend soon after. He listed it high and it sold. The same card with the same serial # right there in sold listings for all to see. Don't know the mind set of the buyer but he did pay. Now the 87 is also listed though the owner would prefer to keep it.

The stickers probably are undervalued in 9.5.

86 has like 20 9.5s
87 I think is 6
88 is 4
89 is like 30

Those are the numbers last I looked not too long ago.

Is the market being pumped? Absolutely.

But was the $1500 89 sticker sale part of that? No. The owner was simply gauging interest not intending to sell. Interest is apparently high.

[Archangel1775]

Hurry up an invest in unopened 89/90/91 Fleer. I also her that 91 and 92 Upper Deck is going to make a comeback.

[Bostonsports1]

I noticed this too, all the MJ graded stuff from 84 to 90s, even star, has risen in a big way and it seems fishy. Look at these for example.

Below sold for ~450 in recent months, over 1.1k already?!
1988 Fleer Basketball Michael Jordan All Star 120 PSA 10 Gem Mint PWCC | eBay

Below sold for ~3k max in recent months, now 5k+?!
1987 Fleer Basketball Michael Jordan 59 PSA 10 Gem Mint PWCC | eBay

Below was selling for ~250 often, now closer to 400+?!
1988 Fleer Sticker Michael Jordan 7 PSA 9 Mint PWCC | eBay

While sort of rare, sold for $575-$675 in recent months, now approaching 1.5k?
1989 Fleer Sticker 3 Michael Jordan Chicago Bulls HOF PSA 10 Gem Mint " RARE " | eBay

[6celtics33]

Weird wild stuff

[ninjacookies]

PWCC: the gift that keeps on giving.

When the bottom falls out, I feel for all the flippers overpaying and stuck holding the hot potato.

Oh wait, no I don't.

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

PWCC: the gift that keeps on giving.

When the bottom falls out, I feel for all the flippers overpaying and stuck holding the hot potato.

Oh wait, no I don't.

I just had some PTSD of a previous member.

[Bostonsports1]

Originally Posted by pejc300

I just had some PTSD of a previous member.

Lol his posts were epic

[rj.cataldo]

As a Jordan collector, the market has me perplexed. I have some high end cards, but there are several that I waited to pull the trigger on which are rising to astronomical levels, and the market on the stickers, including rookie year are insane. I hadn't looked in a few months, but PSA 8s selling for $700+?

To me there has to be more to the story as I really don't think that much has changed and you can still find all of these cards quite easily. Perhaps I am wrong and more money has come into the market, but I find the sudden spike a bit unnatural.

[Bostonsports1]

Originally Posted by rj.cataldo

As a Jordan collector, the market has me perplexed. I have some high end cards, but there are several that I waited to pull the trigger on which are rising to astronomical levels, and the market on the stickers, including rookie year are insane. I hadn't looked in a few months, but PSA 8s selling for $700+?

To me there has to be more to the story as I really don't think that much has changed and you can still find all of these cards quite easily. Perhaps I am wrong and more money has come into the market, but I find the sudden spike a bit unnatural.

Ya it will be interesting to see how the market goes for the next couple months, my guess is it falls back to normal levels, maybe slightly higher. The large increases just dont make sense.

[rj.cataldo]

Originally Posted by Bostonsports1

Ya it will be interesting to see how the market goes for the next couple months, my guess is it falls back to normal levels, maybe slightly higher. The large increases just dont make sense.

A couple of years back Jordan rookies were at an all time low. I know because I sold the one I had after it got downgraded from 8 to 7 after I noticed damage from psa after a reslab. I sold at the very bottom of the market and planned on upgrading to a 9 when they were around 1800 but never pulled the trigger.

Now these cards have all reached levels that i question if I want to buy in as I don't want to be a victim of buying at the peak.

[karlsta26]

I have been buying a few of my older favorite Jordan's in PSA10 over the 6-8 months, passed up on this for ~$120 so many times earlier this year. Now up over $400 +.....something definitely fishy going on

1989 90 Fleer 21 Michael Jordan PSA 10 Gem Mint P4 | eBay

[Archangel1775]

With the amount of 90+ Fleer unopened out there, I'd say we're all safe. This stuff was mass produced. Per the population reports, there are over 1200 90 Fleer PSA 10 base and over 250 PSA 10 stickers. The stickers have an 8% gem rate and the base a 13% gem rate. There is no shortage.

[SanAntonioSpurs]

Yes I get manipulation happens. But it seems like every time in this hobby a card(s) start trending up people start crying the sky is falling or it's manipulation. But when cards trend down everyone's complaining the hobby is dying lol... Where's the happy medium?

Just use common sense when making a purchase.

[6celtics33]

Originally Posted by SanAntonioSpurs

Yes I get manipulation happens. But it seems like every time in this hobby a card(s) start trending up people start crying the sky is falling or it's manipulation. But when cards trend down everyone's complaining the hobby is dying lol... Where's the happy medium?

Just use common sense when making a purchase.

I agree with that and also there is no 90 sticker, it's just an all star. Stickers stopped in 89.