Is Eli Manning a future Hall of Famer?

[Idol]

What is your opinion? I think he's a lock with (2) Super Bowl rings

This youtube video thinks otherwise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxqXpgqNekA

[beaver1080]

Yes and it's not even close. Yet there will be a lot that disagree.

[asujbl]

Eli doesn't pass the "look test" for people - which I totally get - you watch him play each week and I doubt you say "This dude is a HOF'er" you just remember the 2 Super Bowl MVP's. I'm probably one of these people. I'm not even that much of an Eli Manning fan. I don't watch the Giants and have a ton of confidence in what he's doing week in and week out. That does matter.

But I also don't think he gets credit for what he's really done over his career.

Player A - 234 Games, 7,250 attempts (56.9% completion), 48,214 Yards, 300 TD's, 226 INT's, 220 YPG, 79.9 Rating, 3,407 Yards Rushing, 2 Super Bowls, 1 Super Bowl MVP
Player B - 201 Games, 6,825 attempts (59.7% completion), 51,475 Yards, 320 TD's, 215 INT's, 240 YPG, 83.7 Rating, 2 Super Bowls, 2 Super Bowl MVP's

One of these guys is retired. His stats are his stats. One of these guys probably has 2-3 more years left to accumulate more.

One of these guys definitely has more "accomplishments" in terms of Pro Bowls, All Pro Teams, League MVP's, etc... you've probably guessed who it is... the other guy simply hasn't measured up to some of the other greats he is directly competing with.

That being said... one of these players is brought up in the "Who is the Greatest QB Ever" threads. One of these players has a "Is he even a HOF'er thread" created.

That just doesn't seem equitable to me.

[gmarutiak]

I voted yes, but Jim Plunkett can tell you that winning two Super Bowl rings doesn't make a qb a lock for the HoF.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by gmarutiak

I voted yes, but Jim Plunkett can tell you that winning two Super Bowl rings doesn't make a qb a lock for the HoF.

Jim Plunkett threw for 164 TD's and 198 INT's in his career... with 26,000 yards. That has something to do with it.

[SethMurphy]

Oddly enough I voted 50/50. I'm just not sure he's well received enough, but he will get in eventually because of the ridiculous NFL rules of 4-8 players HAVING to be inducted every year.

When all is said and done he will have great counting stats (yards, TDs and such) due to longevity, and the Super Bowls are great, especially going MVP twice. But as a Giants fan he doesn't scream immediate HOFer to me, but he will definitely get in.

One more Super Bowl win and he's first ballot lol

[jlzinck]

2 Super Bowls
8th all time passing yards
7th most TD passes.

Yup Hall of Famer

[Idol]

People forget he is also an Ironman. Can't remember the last time he missed a start or a snap for that matter.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by jlzinck

2 Super Bowls
8th all time passing yards
7th most TD passes.

Yup Hall of Famer

He'll be closer to 5th all time in both categories (depending on how many years he plays) by the time he is done... and while some of that is longevity... it's the reason I mentioned "games" in my post above instead of seasons.

He can play 2 more full seasons, which would get him probably 57,000 yards and 375 TD's, and he will have played the same amount of games as the other player I mentioned who is at 51,000 yards and 300 TD's

[NoleinJax]

Originally Posted by gmarutiak

I voted yes, but Jim Plunkett can tell you that winning two Super Bowl rings doesn't make a qb a lock for the HoF.

His 2 victories didn't come against a dynasty and a QB that many consider to be the GOAT or at least top 3 all-time. Brady and Patriots have 5-6 SB's if not for Eli and the Giants making big time plays in the most crucial moments to comeback and beat the Patriots. I think he'll be first ballot.

[asujbl]

I'd be really curious if you posted a "Eli Manning vs. Ben Roethlisberger" thread in regards to this since both came into the NFL in the same year.

Eli Manning is one year older than Ben of course so Ben could add one additional year of counting stats.

Both have 2 Super Bowls (Ben doesn't have any MVP's) and Eli is ahead of Ben in quite a few statistical categories outside of completion percentage and interceptions.

I'm not picking one or the other - Ben simply passes the "look test" more than Eli - but I bet almost everyone says he's a HOF'er without hesitation.

[RogerGodahell]

Were back on this again?

[Drdduet]

I think Eli suffers from being the younger brother and in the shadow of Peyton. If he were anyone else he'd get better recognition for his accomplishments.

[sportzluvr1]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

Were back on this again?

Dude, it's been almost 2 weeks.

It's time..again.

[RogerGodahell]

Que Philip Rivers to the conversation in 3 2 1.....

[bojesphob]

The main reason I am on the fence with Eli is that when players are looked at for the HOF, they are compared to their contemporaries (and ONLY their contemporaries) when being judged for the Hall. Eli has played most of his career with the likes of Brady, Rodgers, and Brees. If he were to have played during the 80's/90's with the stats and accomplishments that he has, depending on the exact time frame, he'd be a lock, but other than the two SB MVPs, what else does he have? He's not the most efficient during this era (that would be Rodgers then Brady), he doesn't have the best TD to INT ratio (again, Rodgers then Brady), he doesn't have the most TDs (for comparison, Rodgers has 4 less years of starting and is only 23 behind him, Brady since 2004 has 67 more, and had 38 more in the same number of years that Eli has played). And that's not even including Brees in the stats department.

He isn't even close to being considered one of the top tier QBs in the league *right now*, why would he be considered to be good enough for the HOF? If he doesn't make it in, it means that the HOF is still the best of the best when they played, not just "really really good" when they played.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by bojesphob

The main reason I am on the fence with Eli is that when players are looked at for the HOF, they are compared to their contemporaries (and ONLY their contemporaries) when being judged for the Hall. Eli has played most of his career with the likes of Brady, Rodgers, and Brees. If he were to have played during the 80's/90's with the stats and accomplishments that he has, depending on the exact time frame, he'd be a lock, but other than the two SB MVPs, what else does he have? He's not the most efficient during this era (that would be Rodgers then Brady), he doesn't have the best TD to INT ratio (again, Rodgers then Brady), he doesn't have the most TDs (for comparison, Rodgers has 4 less years of starting and is only 23 behind him, Brady since 2004 has 67 more, and had 38 more in the same number of years that Eli has played). And that's not even including Brees in the stats department.

He isn't even close to being considered one of the top tier QBs in the league *right now*, why would he be considered to be good enough for the HOF? If he doesn't make it in, it means that the HOF is still the best of the best when they played, not just "really really good" when they played.

So what are you doing with Ben Roethlisberger? That's the comparison. Not a guy that came into the league in 2000 like Brady if we're doing apples to apples. Rodgers would still work as well.

[beaver1080]

most people that say no are the ones that bring up his inconsitent play and with good reason, but let's be realistic how many hof qb's were always consistent? another knock is how many int's he throws, again looking at some other's that are in they are just as bad if not worse.

as mentioned before he's 8th all time yards and will pass moon for 7th next yr and possibly elway for 6th. assuming he plays a few more years he most likely passes marino for 5th.

good chance he passes fran for 6th in td's next yr and realistic chance at marino at #5. granted rivers and ben aren't all that far behind him nor his rodgers. so he'll settle in around top 7 for a while at the least.

not sure how much it's even looked at but he's 7th all time in completions and will pass always for 6th next yr.

as for the int's look at some of the names ahead of him and tell me it's honestly going to keep him out when his other stats are better than them.

also as mentioned his starting streak, to answer someone else he hasn't missed one.

as for for rating i left it out only because i don't understand how it's figured out and yes he's down the list but still 40th taken into consideration how many qb's have played that's not bad

[Ottomatic]

Cumulative stats comparing him to older quarterbacks is pointless. Everybody from this era throws for a ton of yards, and he has played for a long time in this era. Every young QB is always breaking previous records, it's just so much easier now to throw. Compare him to his cohorts and it's clear he was never really even close to being top tier.

That being said I think he will (and should) get in due to the two rings, possibly could win a third one day. And it's not like he was bad, he's a good QB. Without the rings though, no way.

[bojesphob]

Originally Posted by asujbl

So what are you doing with Ben Roethlisberger? That's the comparison. Not a guy that came into the league in 2000 like Brady if we're doing apples to apples. Rodgers would still work as well.

Brady is relevant because they have played their entire career together at this point (aside from the first 3 years of Brady's starting career). Brady is still considered Eli's contemporary because of that, just like guys like Kurt Warner are compared to guys that played for a lot longer during their career (like Favre). It's not compared to guys who were drafted at the same time, it's the guys that you end up playing against/alongside for most of your career that the judging is done.

Now, Ben I have as a 50/50 as well (personally), although I can see why some would put him in because of the fact he's the youngest QB to ever win the SB. Rivers I would say is 50/50 as well. Rodgers, Brady, and Brees? First ballot IMO, and probably unanimous. If you can say that there was someone that is more worthy to be in the hall when the player played, then they aren't HOF caliber.

[RogerGodahell]

He will get in but he's never been anything special. He will mostly be remembered for being lucky and beating the Patriots in the Super Bowl twice. Those teams overachieved both years he's never dominated the regular season like any of his contemporaries or anything. Eli, i would compare him to Joe Namath nothing special statistically won a super bowl though.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by bojesphob

Brady is relevant because they have played their entire career together at this point (aside from the first 3 years of Brady's starting career). Brady is still considered Eli's contemporary because of that, just like guys like Kurt Warner are compared to guys that played for a lot longer during their career (like Favre). It's not compared to guys who were drafted at the same time, it's the guys that you end up playing against/alongside for most of your career that the judging is done.

Now, Ben I have as a 50/50 as well (personally), although I can see why some would put him in because of the fact he's the youngest QB to ever win the SB. Rivers I would say is 50/50 as well. Rodgers, Brady, and Brees? First ballot IMO, and probably unanimous. If you can say that there was someone that is more worthy to be in the hall when the player played, then they aren't HOF caliber.

Well this is where you are unique (I'd bet) as I would imagine basically 90% of people have Ben as a sure fire lock for the Hall of Fame.

So if you think Ben is 50/50 then I could understand why you'd think Eli is 50/50

[beaver1080]

He isn't even close to being considered one of the top tier QBs in the league *right now*, why would he be considered to be good enough for the HOF? If he doesn't make it in, it means that the HOF is still the best of the best when they played, not just "really really good" when they played.[/QUOTE]


really? i'd be curious after brees, brady, and rodgers who he's not even close to? he had 2 great years before this one. and the only qb with more td's last yr was brady.

[bojesphob]

Originally Posted by asujbl

Well this is where you are unique (I'd bet) as I would imagine basically 90% of people have Ben as a sure fire lock for the Hall of Fame.

So if you think Ben is 50/50 then I could understand why you'd think Eli is 50/50

I personally feel that Ben is 50/50, but I will admit that he will probably make it, and first ballot if he doesn't go up against Brady, Rodgers or Brees during the voting. Eli just doesn't have the full career of dominant play. He has 2 postseasons of dominant play, which really isn't much compared to other guys in the league right now.

[RogerGodahell]

Big Ben plays a few more years he's a sure fire lock. Ben is a much better QB then Eli and it's not even really close.