I really need help / advice on a really weird card issue

Strong184 · 09-29-2018, 11:27 PM

Okay, this is probably gonna be a bit long. But if you look at the pictures you will see cards that for all purposes don't exist. I have come across these 2015 Upper Deck David Johnson Lettermen cards. The problem is, is that Johnson never had a Lettermen card issued. There is no record of it being part of the set on Beckett, nor are there any on ebay. It is my understanding that these cards were shipped by Upper Deck to someone who was supposed to witness him signing them (their supposed to be autographed) but UD never was able to get Johnson to sign and UD never asked for them back. They went out of business after the 2015 product. They are numbered to 25 and I have all 25 sets. I also have the complete Dante Fowler set of these that also went unsigned (also not listed in the set). So my question is how do you put a value on these, if they have any? Also is there any legal reason I couldn't sell them? Any help y'all could provide would great.

Siberian13 · 09-29-2018, 11:30 PM

Well how did you get these cards?

gottagitdemjs · 09-29-2018, 11:33 PM

They didn't go out of business. They lost their NFL license. These were produced AFTER that happened when they had an NCAA license (which they have since lost as well). I'm not sure if they can legally still claim ownership of them or not. I don't know how that works.

Strong184 · 09-29-2018, 11:34 PM

I got them at a shop. they were in the back room sitting on a shelf and I made him an offer.

Strong184 · 09-29-2018, 11:36 PM

They lost their NCAA license in 2015 to Panini

Archangel1775 · 09-29-2018, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strong184

I got them at a shop. they were in the back room sitting on a shelf and I made him an offer.

lol, yeah, that'll work. I'm a buyer...

Siberian13 · 09-29-2018, 11:39 PM

They look better this way. I hate cards that are signed on the letterman cards that end up looking bad. Maybe you can run one set at auction to see where it lands. Just be honest in your listings on what they are .

Strong184 · 09-29-2018, 11:45 PM

Just so you know. The shop where I picked these up was where UD sent back in 2015. So it wasn't some shady second hand deal. The person that was contracted to witness the signings said Upper Deck could never get Johnson to set up an appointment so they just ended up sitting there on the shelf.

salthill · 09-30-2018, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strong184

Just so you know. The shop where I picked these up was where UD sent back in 2015. So it wasn't some shady second hand deal. The person that was contracted to witness the signings said Upper Deck could never get Johnson to set up an appointment so they just ended up sitting there on the shelf.

So Upper Deck still own the cards, right?

Cavaliercards · 09-30-2018, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salthill

So Upper Deck still own the cards, right?

That’s how I take it as well.

We have had signings get delayed and never happen and had to send cards back.

Strong184 · 09-30-2018, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salthill

So Upper Deck still own the cards, right?

I have no idea. That's why I came on here trying to figure it all out before I decided what I was going to do with them.

Strong184 · 09-30-2018, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

That’s how I take it as well.

We have had signings get delayed and never happen and had to send cards back.

That is normally what happens I assume. But in this instance the contracted person said they never requested the cards be sent back as they had in the past. So it was all kinda of left in limbo. He had no idea if they were still trying to get Johnson to sign or what. So they just kinda sat their in limbo and he figured when they lost their NCAA agreement they just forgot about them.

mhcook · 09-30-2018, 02:37 AM

Since they back says they have an authentic autograph, I think you should sign them all yourself before you sell them. I'm just kidding, but if you sell the sets I'm willing to bet some of the cards reappear signed.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

MeteoriteGuy · 09-30-2018, 03:27 AM

Her Pants...what a strange lettermen set.

3124508 on COMC · 09-30-2018, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhcook

Since they back says they have an authentic autograph, I think you should sign them all yourself before you sell them. I'm just kidding, but if you sell the sets I'm willing to bet some of the cards reappear signed.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

This is my only issue and presumably the only issue Upper Deck would have with these showing up on the secondary market.

salthill · 09-30-2018, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhcook

Since they back says they have an authentic autograph, I think you should sign them all yourself before you sell them. I'm just kidding, but if you sell the sets I'm willing to bet some of the cards reappear signed.

Yeah, one of us will be blowing the dust off this thread in three years when these start appearing on eBay signed.

Sackcitychiefs · 09-30-2018, 08:47 AM

contact upper decck and tell them you purchased them. they might offer you some kind of replacement you never know

mcgahee21nfl · 09-30-2018, 10:01 AM

get David to sign them.. give him a really nice gold ink pen and ask him nicely to sign so that the autographs are very clean and include his full signature. would make for beautiful cards.

then sell one to me.

Strong184 · 09-30-2018, 03:44 PM

Thanks everyone for the input. I think the best thing is just to return them back to the shop where I got them. Let them decided what they want to do. It seems there are just to many unknowns and the idea that someone would actually sign them and try to pass them off is a little unnerving but sadly true. So best to take them back and move on. Thanks again everyone.

cking · 09-30-2018, 06:41 PM

I will try to predict the future here.

These get sold on Ebay unsigned.

A month later the person who bought them on Ebay lists them all for sale and they magically will all be signed.

OP:If you sell these....I can promise you someone will put fake autos on them and people will buy them thinking they are real because they have the Upper Deck authenticationon the back.

Dont do that to the hobby so you can make a few bucks. Just leave them as is and dont sell them. And dont let them out of your possession.

Dont take them back to the shop. Then you run the risk of them selling them to someone who will fake them.

You know they will NEVER hit the market if you keep them.

quorthon13 · 09-30-2018, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strong184

Thanks everyone for the input. I think the best thing is just to return them back to the shop where I got them. Let them decided what they want to do. It seems there are just to many unknowns and the idea that someone would actually sign them and try to pass them off is a little unnerving but sadly true. So best to take them back and move on. Thanks again everyone.

Just stamp them "NO AUTOGRAPH!!!" - problem solved

mhcook · 09-30-2018, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strong184

Thanks everyone for the input. I think the best thing is just to return them back to the shop where I got them. Let them decided what they want to do. It seems there are just to many unknowns and the idea that someone would actually sign them and try to pass them off is a little unnerving but sadly true. So best to take them back and move on. Thanks again everyone.

Depending on whether you are into them at a good price, I would still consider selling them yourself in sets or individually. It is inevitable that some of these will make it to the market signed. If you slowly sell them as sets unsigned then there is a fighting chance some people know the truth and they don't all get signed. If they are all sold as a group then odds are much higher they will all end up in the hands of a scammer and the signatures on all of them will look the same and this will be the only record that they were never signed.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

salthill · 09-30-2018, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhcook

Depending on whether you are into them at a good price, I would still consider selling them yourself in sets or individually. It is inevitable that some of these will make it to the market signed. If you slowly sell them as sets unsigned then there is a fighting chance some people know the truth and they don't all get signed. If they are all sold as a group then odds are much higher they will all end up in the hands of a scammer and the signatures on all of them will look the same and this will be the only record that they were never signed.

No it isn’t.

23rd post... ok, I’ll do it. Send them back to Upper Deck.
They shouldn’t be in the market. They’re UD’s property. They will be forged.

mhcook · 10-01-2018, 09:34 AM

I was limiting my comments to what I consider realistic. The dealer has already shown he will be selling them and not returning them. If I'm the OP, no way am I buying these cards that UD didn't take the effort to keep up with and then returning them and losing whatever I spent on them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salthill

No it isn’t.

23rd post... ok, I’ll do it. Send them back to Upper Deck.
They shouldn’t be in the market. They’re UD’s property. They will be forged.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Zeldafanatic15 · 10-01-2018, 10:19 AM

Wow, what a weird situation. Honestly, my first thought would be to contact UD. I'd hate for you to loose what you paid for them though, if UD does want them back, maybe they'd compensate you for what you paid. The guy who had them, if he hadn't, probably should have contacted UD and asked if they wanted them back. If he was to witness signings, I would guess maybe he had some type of contract with UD on what could and could be done with the cards.

Personally I wouldn't want to return them to where I bought them, because as others have said, there is a chance they will wind up "signed" and on the market, but that's your call. I'll only say what I would do.

Please let us know what happens, I'm actually very intrigues by this.

09-29-2018, 11:27 PM	#1
Strong184 Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Florida Posts: 154 fwbcardz	I really need help / advice on a really weird card issue Okay, this is probably gonna be a bit long. But if you look at the pictures you will see cards that for all purposes don't exist. I have come across these 2015 Upper Deck David Johnson Lettermen cards. The problem is, is that Johnson never had a Lettermen card issued. There is no record of it being part of the set on Beckett, nor are there any on ebay. It is my understanding that these cards were shipped by Upper Deck to someone who was supposed to witness him signing them (their supposed to be autographed) but UD never was able to get Johnson to sign and UD never asked for them back. They went out of business after the 2015 product. They are numbered to 25 and I have all 25 sets. I also have the complete Dante Fowler set of these that also went unsigned (also not listed in the set). So my question is how do you put a value on these, if they have any? Also is there any legal reason I couldn't sell them? Any help y'all could provide would great. Attached Thumbnails

09-29-2018, 11:33 PM	#3
gottagitdemjs Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 5,949 tigerwoods3423	They didn't go out of business. They lost their NFL license. These were produced AFTER that happened when they had an NCAA license (which they have since lost as well). I'm not sure if they can legally still claim ownership of them or not. I don't know how that works. __________________ Things I need to happen in order to die happy: KU wins a NCAA Championship....CHECK...TWICE! The Royals win a World Series.....CHECK The Chiefs win a Super Bowl.......FINALLY!!!...3X!!! BACK TO BACK!!!

09-29-2018, 11:45 PM	#8
Strong184 Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Florida Posts: 154 fwbcardz	Just so you know. The shop where I picked these up was where UD sent back in 2015. So it wasn't some shady second hand deal. The person that was contracted to witness the signings said Upper Deck could never get Johnson to set up an appointment so they just ended up sitting there on the shelf. Last edited by Strong184; 09-29-2018 at 11:49 PM.

09-30-2018, 02:37 AM	#13
mhcook Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 1,711	Since they back says they have an authentic autograph, I think you should sign them all yourself before you sell them. I'm just kidding, but if you sell the sets I'm willing to bet some of the cards reappear signed. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk __________________ Looking for University of Memphis players in their college uniform especially DeAngelo Williams and Paxton Lynch. Mark McGwire on card autos especially 2002 and 2003, 1/1s and Toppsy Dynasty /10 from 2014 and 2018.

09-30-2018, 03:27 AM	#14
MeteoriteGuy Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Wichita, Kansas Posts: 4,827 MarkBostick	Her Pants...what a strange lettermen set. __________________ Always looking for low numbered Tony Gonzalez cards.

09-29-2018, 11:30 PM	#2
Siberian13 Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 77,154 shiller13	Well how did you get these cards?

09-29-2018, 11:34 PM	#4
Strong184 Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Florida Posts: 154 fwbcardz	I got them at a shop. they were in the back room sitting on a shelf and I made him an offer.

09-29-2018, 11:36 PM	#5
Strong184 Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Florida Posts: 154 fwbcardz	They lost their NCAA license in 2015 to Panini

09-29-2018, 11:39 PM	#7
Siberian13 Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 77,154 shiller13	They look better this way. I hate cards that are signed on the letterman cards that end up looking bad. Maybe you can run one set at auction to see where it lands. Just be honest in your listings on what they are .

09-30-2018, 08:47 AM	#17
Sackcitychiefs Banned Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 801	contact upper decck and tell them you purchased them. they might offer you some kind of replacement you never know

09-30-2018, 10:01 AM	#18
mcgahee21nfl Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6,555	get David to sign them.. give him a really nice gold ink pen and ask him nicely to sign so that the autographs are very clean and include his full signature. would make for beautiful cards. then sell one to me.

09-30-2018, 03:44 PM	#19
Strong184 Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Florida Posts: 154 fwbcardz	Thanks everyone for the input. I think the best thing is just to return them back to the shop where I got them. Let them decided what they want to do. It seems there are just to many unknowns and the idea that someone would actually sign them and try to pass them off is a little unnerving but sadly true. So best to take them back and move on. Thanks again everyone.

09-30-2018, 06:41 PM	#20
cking Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 16,263	I will try to predict the future here. These get sold on Ebay unsigned. A month later the person who bought them on Ebay lists them all for sale and they magically will all be signed. OP:If you sell these....I can promise you someone will put fake autos on them and people will buy them thinking they are real because they have the Upper Deck authenticationon the back. Dont do that to the hobby so you can make a few bucks. Just leave them as is and dont sell them. And dont let them out of your possession. Dont take them back to the shop. Then you run the risk of them selling them to someone who will fake them. You know they will NEVER hit the market if you keep them.

10-01-2018, 10:19 AM	#25
Zeldafanatic15 Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Arkansas Posts: 5,179 Zeldafanatic15 Zeldafanatic	Wow, what a weird situation. Honestly, my first thought would be to contact UD. I'd hate for you to loose what you paid for them though, if UD does want them back, maybe they'd compensate you for what you paid. The guy who had them, if he hadn't, probably should have contacted UD and asked if they wanted them back. If he was to witness signings, I would guess maybe he had some type of contract with UD on what could and could be done with the cards. Personally I wouldn't want to return them to where I bought them, because as others have said, there is a chance they will wind up "signed" and on the market, but that's your call. I'll only say what I would do. Please let us know what happens, I'm actually very intrigues by this.