Brian Ehricke Deer— Alleged Card Trimming Fraud, eBay IDs = isellurcards / f.o.t.s.19

superdan49 · 12-26-2018, 05:56 PM

Seeing the post in the basketball thread about the trimmed LeBron Exquisite BGS 9 RC inspired me to do a little digging on Tom Brady rookie cards, which despite the average (by New England standards) season the Pats are having, sell for mega bucks.

In September, I exposed eBay seller bristolcollectibles for selling trimmed and altered cards, all certified by PSA. The thread got some initial attention but was moved to the member feedback section which killed any traction it had:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1241069

Well bristolcollectibles now has a new eBay ID, selling under the name isellurcards. I assume this is to emphasize the consignment end of their business, which adds a layer of plausible deniability if they are ever found to be selling counterfeit or altered cards (Hi tntnorthnj, hope you are reading and all is well!).

Anyway, on November 28, isellurcards sold a 2000 Fleer Showcase Tom Brady Rookie Showcase First PSA 9 card for $3,989.66. It was serial numbered 218/250.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Fleer-...-/362490537589

However, the Brady Showcase First with serial number 218/250 was previously sold on eBay on August 19 for $1,026. The kicker? It was at that time a PSA 5 !!
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...tom-1949456544

This begs the question: How does a card jump not 1, but a full 4 grades?! Below are photos showing matching serial numbers:

By the way, this card is currently being sold by seller ereeves1011eric, who likely bought the Brady trying to flip it and has no idea of the card's questionable history.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Fleer-.../292887805336?

I can't prove the card was altered or trimmed, but there is strong evidence to suggest something shady went down here, especially given the past history of this seller.

1/1/19 Update:
Information now added on Brian Deer's business partner:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...4#post14979974

cking · 12-26-2018, 06:41 PM

LOL..............This stuff cracks me up

And yet people will still swear by these companies no matter how many times something like this happens.

Its turning into an everyday thing.

I wish I could do my job wrong over and over and over and people would still give me business.

I will await the ever popular grading junkies with the old "Grading is just an opinion" or the ever popular "There will be errors when humans are involved"

They need some new excuses.

Onepocketj · 12-26-2018, 06:44 PM

I realize there will always be shady people where money is involved but this disappoints me so much. I really don' think I'm going to buy any more high end cards and I'm starting to sell the ones I do have.

hche · 12-26-2018, 06:47 PM

These grading companies need to keep track of the serial numbers of the cards they graded. I know it may be a huge project but this is exactly why that needs to be done for the integrity (oh well....I said it) of the grading industry.

superdan49 · 12-26-2018, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hche

These grading companies need to keep track of the serial numbers of the cards they graded. I know it may be a huge project but this is exactly why that needs to be done for the integrity (oh well....I said it) of the grading industry.

This would add much needed integrity. If Beckett and PSA shared a grading database, PSA would have known Beckett had previously graded that Juan Soto Superfractor that was both trimmed and had the autograph altered. That is just one example of how such a venture would help the hobby.

BigL7370 · 12-26-2018, 06:53 PM

Wow - that’s the first time I’ve seen Brady as a skinhead.

TheFrenzy · 12-26-2018, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hche

These grading companies need to keep track of the serial numbers of the cards they graded. I know it may be a huge project....

All it would take is a spreadsheet.

Do PSA and BGS not track serial numbers?

Onepocketj · 12-26-2018, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

All it would take is a spreadsheet.

Do PSA and BGS not track serial numbers?

No they don't.

superdan49 · 12-26-2018, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigL7370

Wow - that’s the first time I’ve seen Brady as a skinhead.

Nazifractor. It's an eBay 1/1

ThoseBackPages · 12-26-2018, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hche

These grading companies need to keep track of the serial numbers of the cards they graded. I know it may be a huge project but this is exactly why that needs to be done for the integrity (oh well....I said it) of the grading industry.

i agree. make the turnaround time 12 months and get them all categorized

KhalDrogo · 12-26-2018, 07:23 PM

I'm pretty sure the issue is the foil peeling in the bottom left corner. Which I don't see how you could fix. This should be sent to PSA.

This card first sold raw in March 2011:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...-218-139162650

Then graded by BGS in October 2011? (Worthpoint doesn't have this auction available).

Could be this: https://www.beckett.com/grading/card...6786558&flag=1

Or this: https://www.beckett.com/grading/card...6806383&flag=1

Then raw in December 2013:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...irst-490561558

Then as a PSA 5 in August 2018:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...tom-1949456544

bwalter1 · 12-26-2018, 07:25 PM

They are different angles but the sticker with the serial looks different between them. It looks like peeling maybe on the top of the sticker when it is horizontal in the PSA 5 and then I don't see that in the 10. Also i see a dinged corner when horizontal on front bottom left in psa 5 and don't really see it in the psa 10. Like I said could be angles of scan. For it to be a 5 initially that would have to be corners pretty bad or a big surface issue.

corndog · 12-26-2018, 07:41 PM

Maybe the card visited Ranaldo in Indonesia.

"I just treatment and pray to god."

3124508 on COMC · 12-26-2018, 08:06 PM

Sounds like this is on PSA and PSA alone.

Surface issue is still visible on the 9.

superdan49 · 12-26-2018, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Sounds like this is on PSA and PSA alone.

Surface issue is still visible on the 9.

Is it? Here are the photos of that surface issue. On the Worthpoint PSA 5, you can see it clearly in one of the seller's photos:

In the PSA 9 currently on eBay, I don't see the flaw:

imbluestreak23 · 12-26-2018, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

Is it? Here are the photos of that surface issue. On the Worthpoint PSA 5, you can see it clearly in one of the seller's photos:

In the PSA 9 currently on eBay, I don't see the flaw:

What flaw are we looking at (serious question). Is it the discoloration of the foil around the corner area, the raised foil on the top edge?

Going from a PSA 5 to a PSA whatever is possible if the surface has a bunch of gew on it that is then wiped off. If its something that normally can't be wiped off, but is now gone, then idk.

jasonm2121 · 12-26-2018, 08:54 PM

That is crazy

KhalDrogo · 12-26-2018, 08:55 PM

The foil looks like it’s peeling, which these are notorious for. It’s hard to tell on the PSA 9 because of the color of the image.

Not sure how you press peeking foil back in place. But I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody figured out how to do it.

Vincesanity · 12-26-2018, 09:29 PM

Like buying an old house and remodeling it

pejc300 · 12-27-2018, 12:07 AM

I will never forget when this happened to me. I was fairly new again to the card world. Tom Brady Elite Aspirations RC #78/90. Card was nearmint/mint. I sent it to BGS asking for min grade 9 and it didn't meet minimum grade. Bristol bought it from me and a short while later it showed up as a PSA 10. Here is the thread:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=340536

Lothar52 · 12-27-2018, 06:08 AM

218/250 is 218/250.. and psa says it went from a 5 to a 9 ...... It happened... we just need to find out how. Mental note...not buying from Isellurcards

Lothar52 · 12-27-2018, 06:28 AM

looks like the original sale did not go through for 3900+ which is a good price... it was relisted and sold in December for around 800 less.... which is a phenomenal price. I would have expected the card to go for higher? Wonder if the original buyer knew something and backed out?

Bowman1951 · 12-27-2018, 09:58 AM

superdan49 - I have nothing more to add here than that you are doing God's work.

The sleuthing and piecing together evidence by fellow collectors in this forum is what makes is so great. Many of us simply don't have the time or passion to follow through with what you are doing but when buying high end cards, it definitely helps to do full and complete due diligence.

Thanks again.

superdan49 · 12-27-2018, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman1951

superdan49 - I have nothing more to add here than that you are doing God's work.

The sleuthing and piecing together evidence by fellow collectors in this forum is what makes is so great. Many of us simply don't have the time or passion to follow through with what you are doing but when buying high end cards, it definitely helps to do full and complete due diligence.

Thanks again.

Thank you. I'd like to think BODA does for modern cards what Net54 does for vintage. This, unfortunately, is just the tip of the spear in terms of the shady practices in the hobby.

mrdallas · 12-27-2018, 11:08 AM

Many members on BO (myself included) over the past few years have made comments on here talking about certain sellers getting preferential treatment from the grading companies. Then I see threads like this and it makes me strongly feel that many of the big guys probably have their own card "doctor". Or maybe they all use the same one, who knows.

12-26-2018, 05:56 PM	#1
superdan49 BODA Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 4,238	Brian Ehricke Deer— Alleged Card Trimming Fraud, eBay IDs = isellurcards / f.o.t.s.19 Seeing the post in the basketball thread about the trimmed LeBron Exquisite BGS 9 RC inspired me to do a little digging on Tom Brady rookie cards, which despite the average (by New England standards) season the Pats are having, sell for mega bucks. In September, I exposed eBay seller bristolcollectibles for selling trimmed and altered cards, all certified by PSA. The thread got some initial attention but was moved to the member feedback section which killed any traction it had: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1241069 Well bristolcollectibles now has a new eBay ID, selling under the name isellurcards. I assume this is to emphasize the consignment end of their business, which adds a layer of plausible deniability if they are ever found to be selling counterfeit or altered cards (Hi tntnorthnj, hope you are reading and all is well!). Anyway, on November 28, isellurcards sold a 2000 Fleer Showcase Tom Brady Rookie Showcase First PSA 9 card for $3,989.66. It was serial numbered 218/250. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Fleer-...-/362490537589 However, the Brady Showcase First with serial number 218/250 was previously sold on eBay on August 19 for $1,026. The kicker? It was at that time a PSA 5 !! https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...tom-1949456544 This begs the question: How does a card jump not 1, but a full 4 grades?! Below are photos showing matching serial numbers: By the way, this card is currently being sold by seller ereeves1011eric, who likely bought the Brady trying to flip it and has no idea of the card's questionable history. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Fleer-.../292887805336? I can't prove the card was altered or trimmed, but there is strong evidence to suggest something shady went down here, especially given the past history of this seller. 1/1/19 Update: Information now added on Brian Deer's business partner: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...4#post14979974 Last edited by superdan49; 08-26-2019 at 09:28 PM. Reason: Info update

12-26-2018, 06:47 PM	#4
hche Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6,188	These grading companies need to keep track of the serial numbers of the cards they graded. I know it may be a huge project but this is exactly why that needs to be done for the integrity (oh well....I said it) of the grading industry. __________________ I would ban you but I have no sway or pull here.

12-26-2018, 07:25 PM	#12
bwalter1 Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 2,098	They are different angles but the sticker with the serial looks different between them. It looks like peeling maybe on the top of the sticker when it is horizontal in the PSA 5 and then I don't see that in the 10. Also i see a dinged corner when horizontal on front bottom left in psa 5 and don't really see it in the psa 10. Like I said could be angles of scan. For it to be a 5 initially that would have to be corners pretty bad or a big surface issue. __________________ http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/bwalter22/library/ Currently working on 2017 Topps Heritage Blue Refractor /68 set. Pm me if you have any for sale/trade

12-26-2018, 07:41 PM	#13
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 14,706	Maybe the card visited Ranaldo in Indonesia. "I just treatment and pray to god." __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

12-26-2018, 06:41 PM	#2
cking Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 16,263	LOL..............This stuff cracks me up And yet people will still swear by these companies no matter how many times something like this happens. Its turning into an everyday thing. I wish I could do my job wrong over and over and over and people would still give me business. I will await the ever popular grading junkies with the old "Grading is just an opinion" or the ever popular "There will be errors when humans are involved" They need some new excuses.

12-26-2018, 06:44 PM	#3
Onepocketj Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 20,206 jeflave-0 onepocketj	I realize there will always be shady people where money is involved but this disappoints me so much. I really don' think I'm going to buy any more high end cards and I'm starting to sell the ones I do have.

12-26-2018, 06:53 PM	#6
BigL7370 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 931	Wow - that’s the first time I’ve seen Brady as a skinhead.

12-26-2018, 07:23 PM	#11
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 39,288	I'm pretty sure the issue is the foil peeling in the bottom left corner. Which I don't see how you could fix. This should be sent to PSA. This card first sold raw in March 2011: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...-218-139162650 Then graded by BGS in October 2011? (Worthpoint doesn't have this auction available). Could be this: https://www.beckett.com/grading/card...6786558&flag=1 Or this: https://www.beckett.com/grading/card...6806383&flag=1 Then raw in December 2013: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...irst-490561558 Then as a PSA 5 in August 2018: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...tom-1949456544

12-26-2018, 08:06 PM	#14
3124508 on COMC BODA Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9,129	Sounds like this is on PSA and PSA alone. Surface issue is still visible on the 9.

12-26-2018, 08:54 PM	#17
jasonm2121 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: GOAT City Posts: 11,895	That is crazy

12-26-2018, 08:55 PM	#18
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 39,288	The foil looks like it’s peeling, which these are notorious for. It’s hard to tell on the PSA 9 because of the color of the image. Not sure how you press peeking foil back in place. But I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody figured out how to do it.

12-26-2018, 09:29 PM	#19
Vincesanity Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 2,243 prizmfootball ClassicChrome	Like buying an old house and remodeling it

12-27-2018, 12:07 AM	#20
pejc300 Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 10,250	I will never forget when this happened to me. I was fairly new again to the card world. Tom Brady Elite Aspirations RC #78/90. Card was nearmint/mint. I sent it to BGS asking for min grade 9 and it didn't meet minimum grade. Bristol bought it from me and a short while later it showed up as a PSA 10. Here is the thread: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=340536

12-27-2018, 06:08 AM	#21
Lothar52 Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 486 colt7822	218/250 is 218/250.. and psa says it went from a 5 to a 9 ...... It happened... we just need to find out how. Mental note...not buying from Isellurcards

12-27-2018, 06:28 AM	#22
Lothar52 Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 486 colt7822	looks like the original sale did not go through for 3900+ which is a good price... it was relisted and sold in December for around 800 less.... which is a phenomenal price. I would have expected the card to go for higher? Wonder if the original buyer knew something and backed out?

12-27-2018, 09:58 AM	#23
Bowman1951 Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Boston 'Burbs Posts: 4,694 djblitz Bowman1951	superdan49 - I have nothing more to add here than that you are doing God's work. The sleuthing and piecing together evidence by fellow collectors in this forum is what makes is so great. Many of us simply don't have the time or passion to follow through with what you are doing but when buying high end cards, it definitely helps to do full and complete due diligence. Thanks again.

12-27-2018, 11:08 AM	#25
mrdallas Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4,804 robbyg8	Many members on BO (myself included) over the past few years have made comments on here talking about certain sellers getting preferential treatment from the grading companies. Then I see threads like this and it makes me strongly feel that many of the big guys probably have their own card "doctor". Or maybe they all use the same one, who knows.