Opinion on value: Trout v. Betts

[SaveMeTheGum]

Wanted to start a little pre-spring training discussion:

5 years from now --which of these 2 cards will be worth more. Please give you opinion and why.

[yanksfan0134]

Trout and it’s not even close imo. That is literally one of the most iconic cards ever at this point. The Betts is obviously beautiful, but he would have to perform at the most elite of elite levels to potentially reach the trouts price. Plus, they’re only a year apart and Trout has performed above and beyond much better than Betts at this point in their careers.

[caflisch78]

Clown question bro. You didn't even put current values so i'd have no idea since I don't collect Mook as to even how they compare currently.

[yanksfan0134]

Originally Posted by caflisch78

Clown question bro. You didn't even put current values so i'd have no idea since I don't collect Mook as to even how they compare currently.

They don’t. The mookie is worth around 2k.

[KhalDrogo]

Betts. The Trout auto looks like it's fading.

[Neal]

5 years from now, Mike Trout will still be the best player in baseball. By a larger margin.

[connor77977]

Man thats my old Trout. Absolutely go with the Trout. I LOVE Mookie Betts but that Trout is an iconic card and will just continue to add value outside of Trout getting seriously injured.

[Hollywood42]

Comparing the growth of Trout prices with Betts prices over the next few years could be pretty interesting, but there's not a big contest here. Might make it a little closer if we were looking at a more popular color for the Betts, maybe a gold, but even then I'd stil lgo Trout without a ton of thought. His consistent MVP-caliber play is one thing, but it's also become an iconic card, as mentioned above. Betts' stuff just isn't there

[caflisch78]

Just throwing this out there. Trout only has 2 MVP's. Mookie has 1, multiple Gold Gloves, and a WS title. Mookie gets another MVP and people will have to take notice.

[teosdesserts]

Originally Posted by caflisch78

Just throwing this out there. Trout only has 2 MVP's. Mookie has 1, multiple Gold Gloves, and a WS title. Mookie gets another MVP and people will have to take notice.

Nobody cares about those awards, they are a joke.

[yanksfan0134]

Originally Posted by caflisch78

Just throwing this out there. Trout only has 2 MVP's. Mookie has 1, multiple Gold Gloves, and a WS title. Mookie gets another MVP and people will have to take notice.

Ehh. Trout finished second 4 times and and won twice. He has 5 SS out of 6 full seasons played to go along with an increasingly incredible OBP. The dude is on another level and has nobody batting around him to help him. Like I said before, too, Trout is only a year older and has a good amount more accolades than Betts (outside of the WS).

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Neal

5 years from now, Mike Trout will still be the best player in baseball. By a larger margin.

Hilarious thing is this argument has been going on for YEARS. How can you say Trout is so much better than Betts, if the experts haven't been able to agree since at least 2016???

Fangraphs 2016... is Betts or Trout better? https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-actu...-mookie-betts/

Fangraphs 2018... Mookie Betts' Historic Season: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/mookie-b...storic-season/

BTW you can go on forever with articles like this. What it proves is they are neck and neck, and have been since just a couple years after Betts joined the league. Pretty impressive in my book that he so quickly caught up with the Trout juggernaut.

As Fangraphs put it in that latter article "It’s possible that we’ve grown so accustomed to Trout’s level of production that, when another player rivals it, the effect is muted. But that’s precisely what Mookie Betts is doing this season. Betts has recorded a season on a level we’ve only seen from Trout, Barry Bonds, and Alex Rodriguez over the past 25 years. And if it weren’t for presence of Trout himself just behind Betts on the WAR leaderboard, it’s possible that Betts’ accomplishment would seems even more unusual."

[Neal]

Betts is a great player. I think Trout is much better.
I don't need fangraphs to form my opinion.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[tlschwerz]

Imagine seriously asking if any player will be better than a guy who has performed at a high level in his first 8 big league years than both Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds.

Mike Trout is the best player in the game, and the second player is not remotely close.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by pewe

Hilarious thing is this argument has been going on for YEARS. How can you say Trout is so much better than Betts, if the experts haven't been able to agree since at least 2016???

Fangraphs 2016... is Betts or Trout better? https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-actu...-mookie-betts/

Fangraphs 2018... Mookie Betts' Historic Season: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/mookie-b...storic-season/

BTW you can go on forever with articles like this. What it proves is they are neck and neck, and have been since just a couple years after Betts joined the league. Pretty impressive in my book that he so quickly caught up with the Trout juggernaut.

As Fangraphs put it in that latter article "It’s possible that we’ve grown so accustomed to Trout’s level of production that, when another player rivals it, the effect is muted. But that’s precisely what Mookie Betts is doing this season. Betts has recorded a season on a level we’ve only seen from Trout, Barry Bonds, and Alex Rodriguez over the past 25 years. And if it weren’t for presence of Trout himself just behind Betts on the WAR leaderboard, it’s possible that Betts’ accomplishment would seems even more unusual."

Was there not an article in 2017 because he wasn’t anywhere near as good as Trout that year?

Mike Trout has been a top 2 position player every year since 2012. Let me know when Mookie develops that consistency. Will Mookie be his 2016/2018 form, or his 2017 form this coming year?

[DaRitz]

Originally Posted by pewe

Hilarious thing is this argument has been going on for YEARS. How can you say Trout is so much better than Betts, if the experts haven't been able to agree since at least 2016???

Fangraphs 2016... is Betts or Trout better? https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-actu...-mookie-betts/

Fangraphs 2018... Mookie Betts' Historic Season: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/mookie-b...storic-season/

BTW you can go on forever with articles like this. What it proves is they are neck and neck, and have been since just a couple years after Betts joined the league. Pretty impressive in my book that he so quickly caught up with the Trout juggernaut.

As Fangraphs put it in that latter article "It’s possible that we’ve grown so accustomed to Trout’s level of production that, when another player rivals it, the effect is muted. But that’s precisely what Mookie Betts is doing this season. Betts has recorded a season on a level we’ve only seen from Trout, Barry Bonds, and Alex Rodriguez over the past 25 years. And if it weren’t for presence of Trout himself just behind Betts on the WAR leaderboard, it’s possible that Betts’ accomplishment would seems even more unusual."

I don't know if this helps or hurts the case for Betts. If we take it as a given that the players are "the same" or "very close" statistically... the Trout is still more valuable now. These cards --- fair to say $5k vs $2k? (AND we're comparing the black /50 Betts to the base Trout.) Is there any reason that price difference would change if they're already "the same" statistically?

It will be interesting to see if, and how much, Betts can close the gap. But I think it would take some wild turn of events for Betts to overtake him.

Add in the fact we're comparing black to base... and the fact that they're apparently already statistically close. The hobby likes Trout more, period.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Was there not an article in 2017 because he wasn’t anywhere near as good as Trout that year?

Mike Trout has been a top 2 position player every year since 2012. Let me know when Mookie develops that consistency. Will Mookie be his 2016/2018 form, or his 2017 form this coming year?

Interestingly both Trout and Betts had a down year vs. their normal in 2017 (both were down ~1/3 in WAR vs. 2016 and 2018). Not sure what was in the water. This thread made me go looking, but I didn't see articles discussing it. Would be fun to know more!

[Hollywood42]

Trout tore a ligament in his finger and only played in 114 games. He and Betts' 2017s aren't very comparable

Originally Posted by pewe

Interestingly both Trout and Betts had a down year vs. their normal in 2017 (both were down ~1/3 in WAR vs. 2016 and 2018). Not sure what was in the water that year. This thread made me go looking, but I didn't see articles discussing it. Would be fun to know more!

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by teosdesserts

Nobody cares about those awards, they are a joke.

Rings?

[SaveMeTheGum]

LOL... I guess I thought this was more of a converstation.

Maybe I should have asked which has more upside potential.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by pewe

Interestingly both Trout and Betts had a down year vs. their normal in 2017 (both were down ~1/3 in WAR vs. 2016 and 2018). Not sure what was in the water. This thread made me go looking, but I didn't see articles discussing it. Would be fun to know more!

This is a joke right?

[pewe]

Originally Posted by tlschwerz

Imagine seriously asking if any player will be better than a guy who has performed at a high level in his first 8 big league years than both Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds.

Mike Trout is the best player in the game, and the second player is not remotely close.

When you say "high[er] level than Babe Ruth and Berry Bonds" you are comparing to??? Ruth had 9 seasons of 10+ WAR, Bonds had 5.

Mike Trout has had 2. Mookie Betts has had 1.

How rare is 10+ WAR? There have only been 21 players since 1901 with a 10+ WAR year. And if we are adding greats to Ruth and Bonds... Roger Hornsby had 6, Ted Williams had 5, Willie Mays had 4. That is the entire list of 4+ WAR.

And in the last 50 years there have only been ten 10+ WAR seasons, with Bonds (5), Trout (2), Betts (1), Ripken (1), Henderson (1), and Rodriguez (1). Pretty impressive company!

[pewe]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

This is a joke right?

what joke?

Trout's WAR in '16 was 9.6... in '17 it was 6.9 (4th among position players)...

similarly Betts WAR in '16 was 8.2... in '17 it was 5.3 (15th among position players)...

No argument that Tout was better both years, but both saw a declining '17

Looking into '17 WAR falloff more, just now:
-- Trout's mostly due to a bad fielding year [EDIT] + decline in games played due to thumb injury
-- Betts' mostly due to a decline in batting (his BABIP was an astonishing 0.268 - without knowing more, seems like he had a very unlucky hitting year as .300 is considered average... in fact of the 287 players with at least 300 plate appearances in 2017 he was #249... very very unusual)

[KhalDrogo]

It's entertaining to see you keep going.

[majestik101]

52-4 so far....