$22.5k of Trimmed Harper 2012 Topps Heritage High Autos Sold via PWCC and Probstein

[3124508 on COMC]

Card is POP 5 in PSA 10. At least 4 of the 5 are trimmed. I cannot find the fifth copy. Clearly, gem copies of this card should not exist.

All these cards were in massive PSA subs that had most/all of the cards funneled through PWCC or Probstein. As I continue to post these threads, it will become more evident that the success of PWCC, and to a lesser extent Probstein, is built upon selling altered cards.

Cards appear to originate from the list of usual suspects. One is confirmed to originate from Kevin Burge.

3 are from PWCC. 1 is from Probstein.



#1
Pre: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...yce-1933378417
Post: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1738486




#2
Pre: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...igh-1912292454
Post: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1669159




#3
Pre: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...eal-1875117654
Post: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...yce-1884594048
Feedback (got1morethanshaq AKA Kevin Burge): https://web.archive.org/web/20190426...0&mPg=8&page=2




#4
Pre: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...eal-1843257484
Post: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1490145

[ALBASKETBALL]

What the h&*@ is going on

[Wiseguy917]

LMAO keep hugging your slabs guys lolololol. Great work OP as usual!!

[rngrdanny22]

[LSUNatChamps]

I'm sure a lot more people are in on this operation than anyone will ever realize...

[KhalDrogo]

Ooooooh boy. This is a doozy. I’m sure the buyers of these cards will be thrilled to find out they spent thousands on fraudulent material.

Will PWCC or Probstein issue refunds? Will they out the consignee and ban them from consigning again?

PSA is also potentially on the hook for a ton of money here. Good luck guys!

[superdan49]

The only thing longer than the list of trimmed cards linked to Kevin Burge is his rap sheet. Even I'm amazed at this particular find, and it takes a lot to shock me with card trimming.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Ooooooh boy. This is a doozy. I’m sure the buyers of these cards will be thrilled to find out they spent thousands on fraudulent material.

Will PWCC or Probstein issue refunds? Will they out the consignee and ban them from consigning again?

The current owners should be covered under PSA's grade guarantee. PSA and BGS need to huddle up with PWCC and Probstein to compare names and dates to help end the reign of fraud perpetuated by these individuals.

[dizzydolse]

Seems like those psa.gem scumbags are the main culprits behind the trimming of high end cards. And it seems like they have been perfecting their scam for many years. But are you sure PWCC and Probstein are really to blame as well just because these high end cards go through their auctions? Couldn't the scum trimmers just be basically laundering their altered product through these guys to cover their tracks a little bit? I'd blame PSA and BGS more than consigners like PWCC and Prob. Maybe they're all to blame, I don't know. The whole thing stinks though, thats for sure.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by dizzydolse

Seems like those psa.gem scumbags are the main culprits behind the trimming of high end cards. And it seems like they have been perfecting their scam for many years. But are you sure PWCC and Probstein are really to blame as well just because these high end cards go through their auctions? Couldn't the scum trimmers just be basically laundering their altered product through these guys to cover their tracks a little bit? I'd blame PSA and BGS more than consigners like PWCC and Prob. Maybe they're all to blame, I don't know. The whole thing stinks though, thats for sure.

I don’t disagree. Grading companies are responsible above consignment companies. However, that doesn’t deny anything I stated in the OP.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by superdan49

The current owners should be covered under PSA's grade guarantee. PSA and BGS need to huddle up with PWCC and Probstein to compare names and dates to help end the reign of fraud perpetuated by these individuals.

Hopefully the owners of these cards see this thread.

[SaveMeTheGum]

The best thing that PWCC and Probstein can do is to out to individuals/groups that are now causing their name to be dragged through the mud. It would be the best thing they could do for the hobby. Unless they are connected/involved. In which case they should disappear.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Grading companies should distribute packs of grading labels with just a random number 1 to 10 printed on them, with just a .01% chance of pulling a 10. They will surely be a hit.

But seriously, most people no longer care how corrupt and broken the grading process is, it’s not the point and plenty of people are taking advantage of this.

For grading to mean anything, it needs to completely start over. Anything on current or older slabs should be considered not slabbed or altered.

[dizzydolse]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

I don’t disagree. Grading companies are responsible above consignment companies. However, that doesn’t deny anything I stated in the OP.

It doesn't make anything you said in the OP untrue except maybe (and I don't know for sure obviously) that those cosigners success were built on selling trimmed/altered cards. That's a very drastic statement because the amount of trimmed high end cards that have gone through them is still an incredibly small percentage of the overall volume in which these guys sell at. You said it yourself in the OP, these altered cards are being "funneled" through them. They are the best in the consignment/ebay game and it would make sense for the actual scammers to try and funnel through them. They could easily be innocent and just work at such high volume and trust the grading companies so much, as most of us do. Although my trust in these companies has taken a serious hit lately with all this great work you guys are doing uncovering this crap.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by dizzydolse

It doesn't make anything you said in the OP untrue except maybe (and I don't know for sure obviously) that those cosigners success were built on selling trimmed/altered cards. That's a very drastic statement because the amount of trimmed high end cards that have gone through them is still an incredibly small percentage of the overall volume in which these guys sell at. You said it yourself in the OP, these altered cards are being "funneled" through them. They are the best in the consignment/ebay game and it would make sense for the actual scammers to try and funnel through them. They could easily be innocent and just work at such high volume and trust the grading companies so much, as most of us do. Although my trust in these companies has taken a serious hit lately with all this great work you guys are doing uncovering this crap.

Only serial numbered and autographs can even be researched. Imagine how many non serial numbered and non autographed cards have slipped through. Pretty much any high graded color bordered card is in question. Target Reds, was-mart blues, etc etc...

[corndog]

Great job OP and an utter embarrassment for PSA.

Use your tools!
2.5" X 3.5" - It's not rocket science!

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by dizzydolse

It doesn't make anything you said in the OP untrue except maybe (and I don't know for sure obviously) that those cosigners success were built on selling trimmed/altered cards. That's a very drastic statement because the amount of trimmed high end cards that have gone through them is still an incredibly small percentage of the overall volume in which these guys sell at. You said it yourself in the OP, these altered cards are being "funneled" through them. They are the best in the consignment/ebay game and it would make sense for the actual scammers to try and funnel through them. They could easily be innocent and just work at such high volume and trust the grading companies so much, as most of us do. Although my trust in these companies has taken a serious hit lately with all this great work you guys are doing uncovering this crap.

A small percentage of what? All cards? Gem-mint or greater? Rookie cards? Trout cards? What percentage are affected?

Obviously a rhetorical question because you or I or anyone else doesn’t know. But it doesn’t look good.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

A small percentage of what? All cards? Gem-mint or greater? Rookie cards? Trout cards? What percentage are affected?

Obviously a rhetorical question because you or I or anyone else doesn’t know. But it doesn’t look good.

80% of PSA 10 copies of this card.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

80% of PSA 10 copies of this card.

At least...

[Bassplayah101]

Great work OP!


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[superdan49]

To me, the elephant in the grading room is PSA 10/BGS 10 examples of Trout's 2011 Update RC, which is of course untraceable. I would not trust one of those unless I knew the provenance of that particular card.

[psd2k10]

I only see 1 good thing coming out of this and that is that now my heritage red auto rc /10 is that much more valuable. How do i know mine is not trimmed? Wel I pulled it myself!

[Wiseguy917]

Has there been any chrome cards that have surfaced yet as trimmed? Not sure if that’s even possible

[monkeymcgee]

Originally Posted by superdan49

To me, the elephant in the grading room is PSA 10/BGS 10 examples of Trout's 2011 Update RC, which is of course untraceable. I would not trust one of those unless I knew the provenance of that particular card.

When it was initially jumping in price, there was a lot of market manipulation speculation. Putting that together with this situation makes me wonder.

Should we be suspicious of the Acuna US250 PSA 10 meteoric rise the last three weeks? Many of those seem to have corner issues out of the pack.

This will get really ugly...

[Bassplayah101]

I'm just patiently waiting for the right person to lawyer up.
As far as the above consignors are concerned, there may be legal ramifications involved that would surely keep me up at night.
They are legally considered an agent of the seller and with that, responsible for ensuring the items they sell arent stolen, altered, or otherwise being sold under false pretenses.

I would be sweating at this point.

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