Announcing the PWCC Marketplace Tenets

[PWCC Marketplace]

We at PWCC will not tolerate our brand’s use as a front for bad behavior. That day is over. Today is a new day, based on facts and enforceable policies for which we expect the entire market to hold us accountable.

Prior sale research by dedicated hobbyists in the marketplace using our Auction Sales History, Worth Point, and other resources has given rise to a new level of oversight. We now have the grounds to take a public stance without concern that altered assets will simply flow to another venue for sale.

The grading companies need the help and patience of the market as we collectively aid growth and refine procedures and oversight. We feel they do a tremendous job handling a very difficult and demanding task and our market benefits greatly from their service. The grading companies are owed more from those of us who sell their products, and we must collectively take action to protect the market.

PWCC will officially cease working with any individual who has a proven track record of consistently hurting trust in the marketplace, the brand of PWCC, or the reputations of the grading companies upon which our market is based. We will collaborate with the grading companies to ensure bad actors are flagged, uniformly known, and that all is done to prevent them from affecting our market. PWCC will not work with any individuals whom the grading companies have banned, regardless of their individual track record with PWCC.

We are proud to announce the PWCC Marketplace Tenets which describe the basis that PWCC will operate moving forward. It also includes the PWCC Marketplace Guarantee, which asserts that any professionally-graded item previously sold by PWCC and later proven altered will be eligible for a full refund of the original purchase price. Any items flagged for alteration in current possession of PWCC will be removed from the marketplace. In both cases, PWCC will work with both our submitters, buyers and the grading companies to review the item, and if confirmed to be altered, remove those items from circulation and ensure our customers receive the proper support throughout the process.

There will always be individuals looking to take advantage of any market. We at PWCC are now in a position to do something proactive and protect our brand and the larger marketplace.

We welcome feedback. Please email me at betsy@pwccmarketplace.com anytime.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/marketplace-tenets

[deansayso]

Why didn't you do that in the first place?

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by deansayso

Why didn't you do that in the first place?

Had to pay for the vault.

[pejc300]

I will withhold judgement for now as many companies have schmoozed us before, but I will say I appreciate all of the auctions that PWCC is taking down. However, the ONLY WAY this will work is if people like COMC and Super Dan and CornDog keep doing what they are doing, or if we as a collective hobby keep doing this. PWCC really will need to hire their own person whose sole job is detecting this kind of stuff, otherwise it will be out of sight, out of mind.

I can appreciate PWCCs statement at face value, but time will tell the true motives.

[pspa123]

Copying my 54 response, for what it may be worth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am a believer in redemption and I applaud any positive change that is genuine. I suggested cutting certain ties in my post on the other thread so if you really mean it, I welcome that. It's long overdue.

But I guess one obvious question is how do we know you really are going to cut those ties, or have done so? Call me cynical but given the track record just a hint of which has emerged on Blowout, I don't think it's reasonable just to expect us to take your word for it. Especially when the timing is pretty obvious -- you are doing this (if you are doing it) because you got caught red-handed and had no choice.

So what is your proposed verification mechanism?

And yes you have agreed to buy back altered cards, which I also applaud. But that puts the burden on the owner and with a slabbed card that can be a very onerous one. Most of us are not capable of doing the detective work being done on Blowout. Of course you could disclose which cards you have previously auctioned from the people you say you no longer will accept cards from, but I doubt seriously you're going to do that.

Those are my initial thoughts.

[TheRealDeal]

Sorry, but you can’t get seven cracks at redemption. Brent knows he’s trapped in a corner and he’s trying to spin and lie his way out. It won’t work this time.

[mrdallas]

This new Tenet just feels hollow. IT feels as if the ONLY REASON PWCC came up with this new Tenet is because they got caught with their hand in cookie jar and is hoping by posting it, the past 4 months will go away quietly.

Was/Is this being done because PWCC wants to do the right thing or is it because they have been caught and are doing damage control? I guess that is for each individual to decide.

Whether or not you believe that PWCC deserves yet another chance I hope that the past 4 months of "evidence' does not get swept under the rug because of this New Tenet. By saying today is a new day does not mean forget the past.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

[mjohnatgt]

The word is "tenet," not "tenant."

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by TheRealDeal

Sorry, but you can’t get seven cracks at redemption. Brent knows he’s trapped in a corner and he’s trying to spin and lie his way out. It won’t work this time.

Even a lowly cat gets 8.

[AnthonyCorona]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mrdallas]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

The word is "tenet," not "tenant."

You are correct sir. Fixed

[discostu]

* If there's a hell way down below, I bet you see someone you know *

[corndog]

Originally Posted by PWCC Marketplace

We at PWCC will not tolerate our brand’s use as a front for bad behavior. That day is over. Today is a new day, based on facts and enforceable policies for which we expect the entire market to hold us accountable.

Prior sale research by dedicated hobbyists in the marketplace using our Auction Sales History, Worth Point, and other resources has given rise to a new level of oversight. We now have the grounds to take a public stance without concern that altered assets will simply flow to another venue for sale.

The grading companies need the help and patience of the market as we collectively aid growth and refine procedures and oversight. We feel they do a tremendous job handling a very difficult and demanding task and our market benefits greatly from their service. The grading companies are owed more from those of us who sell their products, and we must collectively take action to protect the market.

PWCC will officially cease working with any individual who has a proven track record of consistently hurting trust in the marketplace, the brand of PWCC, or the reputations of the grading companies upon which our market is based. We will collaborate with the grading companies to ensure bad actors are flagged, uniformly known, and that all is done to prevent them from affecting our market. PWCC will not work with any individuals whom the grading companies have banned, regardless of their individual track record with PWCC.

We are proud to announce the PWCC Marketplace Tenets which describe the basis that PWCC will operate moving forward. It also includes the PWCC Marketplace Guarantee, which asserts that any professionally-graded item previously sold by PWCC and later proven altered will be eligible for a full refund of the original purchase price. Any items flagged for alteration in current possession of PWCC will be removed from the marketplace. In both cases, PWCC will work with both our submitters, buyers and the grading companies to review the item, and if confirmed to be altered, remove those items from circulation and ensure our customers receive the proper support throughout the process.

There will always be individuals looking to take advantage of any market. We at PWCC are now in a position to do something proactive and protect our brand and the larger marketplace.

We welcome feedback. Please email me at betsy@pwccmarketplace.com anytime.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/marketplace-tenets

Too late.

[cking]

I hope you guys are not falling for this nonsense.

If PWCC truly cared about all this he would have done something about it BEFORE he got caught.

The fact that he even posted this shows that he knows he has been caught.

Why else would he post that?

And then to say that he is going to do this and do that and we have to take his word for it is even more insulting.

That bridge has been burnt.

And to top it off he says that grading companies are doing a great job with a very difficult task.

Have you not seen the threads on the forum? Grading companies are doing the exact opposite of a good job. They are terrible.

And, a difficult task

Building a Boeing 747 is a difficult task. Diagnosing medical problems is a difficult task.

Grading sports cards is not difficult.

Dont be gullible you guys. This guy is full of crap and will say anything to try and keep this quiet and off the front pages of the forum.

Absolute BS

[pspa123]

I agree with much of the above as my own post indicates, but on one point I disagree, I think grading cards can be difficult given the sophistication of the card doctors. Remember there are no before and after pics in front of the graders and these doctors are damn good. Sure, they miss some obvious cases, no question. But sometimes, it can be very hard to tell, in my opinion and experience. I mean you have a guy who can very convincingly simulate a factory rough cut, that's scary.

[chezball]

Originally Posted by PWCC Marketplace

We at PWCC will not tolerate our brand’s use as a front for bad behavior. That day is over. Today is a new day, based on facts and enforceable policies for which we expect the entire market to hold us accountable.

Prior sale research by dedicated hobbyists in the marketplace using our Auction Sales History, Worth Point, and other resources has given rise to a new level of oversight. We now have the grounds to take a public stance without concern that altered assets will simply flow to another venue for sale.

The grading companies need the help and patience of the market as we collectively aid growth and refine procedures and oversight. We feel they do a tremendous job handling a very difficult and demanding task and our market benefits greatly from their service. The grading companies are owed more from those of us who sell their products, and we must collectively take action to protect the market.

PWCC will officially cease working with any individual who has a proven track record of consistently hurting trust in the marketplace, the brand of PWCC, or the reputations of the grading companies upon which our market is based. We will collaborate with the grading companies to ensure bad actors are flagged, uniformly known, and that all is done to prevent them from affecting our market. PWCC will not work with any individuals whom the grading companies have banned, regardless of their individual track record with PWCC.

We are proud to announce the PWCC Marketplace Tenets which describe the basis that PWCC will operate moving forward. It also includes the PWCC Marketplace Guarantee, which asserts that any professionally-graded item previously sold by PWCC and later proven altered will be eligible for a full refund of the original purchase price. Any items flagged for alteration in current possession of PWCC will be removed from the marketplace. In both cases, PWCC will work with both our submitters, buyers and the grading companies to review the item, and if confirmed to be altered, remove those items from circulation and ensure our customers receive the proper support throughout the process.

There will always be individuals looking to take advantage of any market. We at PWCC are now in a position to do something proactive and protect our brand and the larger marketplace.

We welcome feedback. Please email me at betsy@pwccmarketplace.com anytime.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/marketplace-tenets

The graders aren't picking up the altered cards so HTF are they suppose to tell you who the bad actors are? You can start with moser and work your way down.

[KhalDrogo]

Conservation vs. Alteration

1. Conservation. PWCC believes conservation of trading cards, as defined below, to be healthy, sustainable, and supportive of the marketplace and the investors and collectors who participate. Assets that have been conserved can be sold on the PWCC Marketplaces.

Conservation is defined by PWCC as an act which returns an asset closer to its as-manufactured condition but does not otherwise enhance or artificially distance the asset beyond the as-manufactured status. Conservation leaves no identifiable impact to the asset, and generally leaves no evidence of the conservation having occurred. An act which removes a foreign substance from an asset and does so in a way which doesn’t otherwise alter the condition of the as-manufactured product is usually considered acceptable. Dirt, glue, writing, wax and other foreign substances can be removed from an asset and the result is considered acceptable conservation, so long as the professional Third-Party Authenticators agree the asset is void of unnatural aspects induced as a result of the conservation. Lying flat a warped or bent region of a trading card so long as it doesn’t disrupt the card’s natural properties is generally considered acceptable conservation, whereas pressing a card and thereby changing its as-manufactured properties (i.e. thickness of the card stock) is generally not acceptable and may render the card altered. For example, laying flat a nonplanar corner, crease, or edge, so long as the card stock is not pressed to a state of artificial thickness (i.e. in a screw down holder), is typically acceptable so long as no other unnatural change to the as-manufactured card stock is discernable.

When PWCC has proof that an asset was conserved as we prepare the listing (either through direct knowledge from the submitter, validated physical evidence in the presence of the card, or otherwise) PWCC will include in the listing a description of the conservation acts as they were described to us, or as they appear.

2. Alteration. PWCC believes alteration of trading cards, as defined below, is damaging to the marketplace. Altered assets cannot be sold on the PWCC Marketplaces unless this detail is disclosed during the sale.

Alteration of trading cards, as defined by PWCC, is the presence of physical evidence of a change to the as-manufactured qualities of the asset, outside of the normal wear and deterioration inherent to circulation. Any purposeful material addition or material removal to or from the as-manufactured asset, outside of normal wear or environmental degradation, is generally considered alteration. Furthermore, trimming, recoloring, autograph retracing, rebuilding of corners or other surfaces, swapping of patches, cleaning which leaves a detectable impact on the asset, or any other action which distances a card from its as-manufactured attributes is generally considered alteration. Altered cards which are stated as such in a transparent nature are permitted for sale on the PWCC Marketplaces.

Alteration is only officially determined by the presence of physical evidence in support of that designation. Speculation is not considered evidence. Evidence of alteration can only be determined in technical review by a reputable Third-Party Authenticator. Important to note that the presence of digital content (i.e. before and after photos eluding to trimming, recoloring, etc) may assist the professional graders in reviewing their work more accurately and as such is a powerful tool, but this alone is not evidence. Physical evidence is only ever determined in the hands of a Third-Party Authenticator.

Active Sale Guarantee
Any professionally-graded card which is determined to be altered while in possession of PWCC will not be sold. PWCC will work with the Third-Party Authenticators to have the item removed from the market.

Past Sale Guarantee
Should a professionally-graded card previously sold by PWCC be determined to be altered, that sale becomes null and void and the buyer is entitled to a full refund of the purchase price. This guarantee applies to sales dating back to January 1, 2015, which marks the start of PWCC’s complete sales record database.

Alteration will be determined using the following procedure
- Should PWCC become aware of suspicion of possible alteration of an asset previously sold by PWCC, PWCC will contact the original buyer, share with him or her the details, and ask for him or her to return the asset to PWCC.
- Upon receiving the asset, PWCC will review the asset and if the suspicion is shared, PWCC will send the asset back to the original Third-Party Authenticator for their official assessment.
- If the original Third-Party Authenticator agrees that alteration has indeed occurred, the following will happen:
-- PWCC will issue a full refund of the purchase price to the buyer.
-- PWCC will work with the Third-Party Authenticator to remove the asset from their serial database, remove it from circulation, or re-grade the asset with the appropriate qualifier.
-- PWCC will not work with any submitter who behaves in a way detrimental to the marketplace, including a pattern of submitting altered assets to either PWCC or the Third-Party Authenticator.

Questions.

1. Why did you not disclose on eBay that the 52 Mantle was conserved, but did so on Instagram? You explain above that when you have knowledge that the card is "conserved" before the listing, you will disclose that. But you do not explain what you will do when the "conservation" is detected while the auction is live or after it has ended. Undeniably, the vast majority of cards that you think have been "conserved", the hobby actually thinks have been altered, and the "conservation" has not been historically disclosed in your listings (as was the case for the Mantle).

2. Regarding your policy for cards live in auction that we flag, will you be sending these all to the grading company for expedited review before the auction ends, or will you pull the listing and then send for expedited review? You state that "Alteration is only officially determined by the presence of physical evidence in support of that designation" and that "Physical evidence is only ever determined in the hands of a Third-Party Authenticator." Who pays for this review? PWCC or the consigner?

3. Regarding your policy for past sales that we flag, what will you do if the buyer does not wish to return the card to you? You have no legal authority to force the buyer to return the card to you. Again, who will pay for the review if the buyer does return the card? And will you be removing these sales from your Marketplace history, and will you be alerting eBay to wipe the item number so that a false sale may not be discovered in the future?

[superdan49]

For me, the key is whether or not these tenets help lead to changes in PSA/BGS as well. Will the TPGs be receptive to a partnership with PWCC to stop criminals from profiting off the backs of honest collectors?

And there are presently some bad actors causing PWCC serious PR problems. Will the likes of Gary Moser and Will Jaimet be prohibited from consigning going forward, or only when they submit their next "bad" batch of cards to PWCC? Without naming names, I'd like to know that such characters will not be selling through PWCC anymore.

Having said that, I've worked with Betsy, as have a few other members, in getting altered cards flagged and removed from the marketplace. I think that is a positive step. On paper, I think the Tenets sound good. I will reserve final judgement in due time.

[LALeakers]

Originally Posted by cking

I hope you guys are not falling for this nonsense.

If PWCC truly cared about all this he would have done something about it BEFORE he got caught.

The fact that he even posted this shows that he knows he has been caught.

Why else would he post that?

And then to say that he is going to do this and do that and we have to take his word for it is even more insulting.

That bridge has been burnt.

And to top it off he says that grading companies are doing a great job with a very difficult task.

Have you not seen the threads on the forum? Grading companies are doing the exact opposite of a good job. They are terrible.

And, a difficult task

Building a Boeing 747 is a difficult task. Diagnosing medical problems is a difficult task.

Grading sports cards is not difficult.

Dont be gullible you guys. This guy is full of crap and will say anything to try and keep this quiet and off the front pages of the forum.

Absolute BS

This, this, THIS...... Remarkable post cking.

[Bader]

Originally Posted by PWCC Marketplace

We at PWCC will not tolerate our brand’s use as a front for bad behavior. That day is over. Today is a new day, based on facts and enforceable policies for which we expect the entire market to hold us accountable.

Prior sale research by dedicated hobbyists in the marketplace using our Auction Sales History, Worth Point, and other resources has given rise to a new level of oversight. We now have the grounds to take a public stance without concern that altered assets will simply flow to another venue for sale.

The grading companies need the help and patience of the market as we collectively aid growth and refine procedures and oversight. We feel they do a tremendous job handling a very difficult and demanding task and our market benefits greatly from their service. The grading companies are owed more from those of us who sell their products, and we must collectively take action to protect the market.

PWCC will officially cease working with any individual who has a proven track record of consistently hurting trust in the marketplace, the brand of PWCC, or the reputations of the grading companies upon which our market is based. We will collaborate with the grading companies to ensure bad actors are flagged, uniformly known, and that all is done to prevent them from affecting our market. PWCC will not work with any individuals whom the grading companies have banned, regardless of their individual track record with PWCC.

We are proud to announce the PWCC Marketplace Tenets which describe the basis that PWCC will operate moving forward. It also includes the PWCC Marketplace Guarantee, which asserts that any professionally-graded item previously sold by PWCC and later proven altered will be eligible for a full refund of the original purchase price. Any items flagged for alteration in current possession of PWCC will be removed from the marketplace. In both cases, PWCC will work with both our submitters, buyers and the grading companies to review the item, and if confirmed to be altered, remove those items from circulation and ensure our customers receive the proper support throughout the process.

There will always be individuals looking to take advantage of any market. We at PWCC are now in a position to do something proactive and protect our brand and the larger marketplace.

We welcome feedback. Please email me at betsy@pwccmarketplace.com anytime.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/marketplace-tenets

[JMarchand1981]

Just as if there are third party graders, we are being introduced to the world of third party submitters of consignment items. So now all parties involved are once-removed from the stain and the blame.

It's like when hobby valentine got booted from a game a while back. He sat in the dugout with a pair of those glasses with the moustache on it. So now, the trimmers will just use someone that is uninvolved and unknown in the card world when PWCC rejects their stuff.

[zschnackel]

Has anyone reached out to eBay to report their selling of counterfeit and modified items? If they don’t have the infrastructure to catch these before they go out, then they shouldn’t be in the consignment business.

[chezball]

Originally Posted by zschnackel

Has anyone reached out to eBay to report their selling of counterfeit and modified items? If they don’t have the infrastructure to catch these before they go out, then they shouldn’t be in the consignment business.

ebay doesn't care.

[pspa123]

I would imagine that with all the revenue they generate for ebay, ebay is unlikely to go after them for anything.

[3124508 on COMC]

Here's 93 cards that can be used to start putting these tenets into action:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1293843