The "ALTERED" T206 Honus Wagner NM-MT 8 on PSA Population Report

Bruins1993 · 06-24-2019, 07:35 PM

Here is the reply I received to my request that PSA update the PSA Population Report for 00000001 to reflect the NM-MT 8 be displayed as AUTHENTIC ALTERED :

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PSA Population report as of 6/24/2019:

ThoseBackPages · 06-24-2019, 07:41 PM

MoreToppsPlease · 06-24-2019, 07:43 PM

Crooks...

Edit: Would they change their minds if a couple hundred more people demand it be removed??

JrFinest · 06-24-2019, 07:58 PM

That is one card grading guarantee they would never honor. lol

mjohnatgt · 06-24-2019, 08:46 PM

They wouldn't have to. Last sale was for like $4 million and Ken Kendrick the owner said he was offered 4x that around the Mastro trial. So it's worth more as an altered card than a NM-MT 8. But Kendrick won't allow it to be reholdered.

rats60 · 06-24-2019, 08:59 PM

PSA graded sheet cut cards for over a decade and Beckett still does. It would open up a can of worms trying to track down all the other sheet cut cards and putting them in authentic holders. Then if they started refunding, both companies would go bankrupt.

mjohnatgt · 06-24-2019, 09:10 PM

Beckett doesn't have a grade guarantee. They are free to do whatever the hell they want to do unless their customers sue them for fraud or the Feds shut them down. Which seems to be getting more and more likely each passing day.

Rockiesfan1993 · 06-25-2019, 01:55 PM

This is one reason I will never trust psa.

They are a bunch of $h!theads.

Everyone keeps acting like this card is an 8 when everyone knows it should have the A grade.

They even graded another card from that same set that was also trimmed as an A. Which is the correct grade and the grade this card should have gotten.

If this was my card I would take it out of the case and set the card on fire and then throw the case into a wood chipper.

No part of this card should be allowed to be out there it all needs to be destroyed.

The head grader and the ceo at the time even admitted that they knew the card was altered and that they should have have given it a A grade.

How can anyone trust a company who is entirely built on fraud and lies.

Every time I say I do not trust one of these companies you guys always jump on my back and tell me I have to trust these companies but unlike you I do not trust any company that is built on fraud and lies.

Bruins1993 · 06-25-2019, 04:27 PM

Wagner card in 'Good 2' condition goes for $1.2M
May 28, 2019
Associated Press

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ition-goes-12m

Here is a question for everyone on this forum:

Do you think the value of this non-altered T206 Wagner PSA 2 would increase if the NM-MT 8 was removed from the population report and/or moved to being classified on the report as "Authentic"?

ThoseBackPages · 06-25-2019, 04:34 PM

whos to say that 2 is not conserved?

imbluestreak23 · 06-25-2019, 04:38 PM

Are we late for this one?

Welcome back!

ThoseBackPages · 06-25-2019, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

Are we late for this one?

Welcome back!

NEVER!!!!

Bruins1993 · 06-25-2019, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

whos to say that 2 is not conserved?

My viewpoint would be innocent until proven guilty. Work with the known altered cards instead of ignoring them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

Are we late for this one?

Welcome back!

Excuse me?

Lonewolf · 06-25-2019, 06:12 PM

He's a busy little poster ain't he?

tonedef2oo8 · 06-25-2019, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

He's a busy little poster ain't he?

Yup.

Runs in guns a blazing.

aggie4ever · 06-25-2019, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

Here is a question for everyone on this forum:

Do you think the value of this non-altered T206 Wagner PSA 2 would increase if the NM-MT 8 was removed from the population report and/or moved to being classified on the report as "Authentic"?

No, I don't think the value of a non-altered PSA 2 would be affected. I think the only card that would potentially go up in value is the next highest graded copy (the non-altered PSA 5 with no qualifiers), since that card would technically become the highest graded example. Even then, that card might not eclipse the value of the PSA 8 even if the grade was changed to "Authentic". Because some of the people who could actually afford to buy that card would still consider the altered PSA 8 to be the best example available. Combine that with the history and notoriety of the card, and I think it would continue to be worth more than the PSA 5.

Now, if a non-altered PSA 7 ever showed up, then I think that would eclipse the altered PSA 8. Of course, we wouldn't really know 100% if the PSA 7 was really non-altered...

JrFinest · 06-25-2019, 06:41 PM

I remember a documentary on this card. PSA stood by their stance "this is still the best copy known to exist".

So they must have been fans of conservation as well..... especially if their in a position to loose that type of money.

Bruins1993 · 06-25-2019, 06:43 PM

Deleted

ThoseBackPages · 06-25-2019, 06:45 PM

Bruins1993 · 06-25-2019, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aggie4ever

(the non-altered PSA 5 with no qualifiers)

Are there images online of the PSA 5 without qualifiers? I have only seen images of the PSA 5 (MC) example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JrFinest

I remember a documentary on this card. PSA stood by their stance "this is still the best copy known to exist".

So they must have been fans of conservation as well..... especially if their in a position to loose that type of money.

Thanks for the post! Interesting link between their statement and cutting/conservation!

MoreToppsPlease · 06-25-2019, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aggie4ever

No, I don't think the value of a non-altered PSA 2 would be affected. I think the only card that would potentially go up in value is the next highest graded copy (the non-altered PSA 5 with no qualifiers), since that card would technically become the highest graded example. Even then, that card might not eclipse the value of the PSA 8 even if the grade was changed to "Authentic". Because some of the people who could actually afford to buy that card would still consider the altered PSA 8 to be the best example available. Combine that with the history and notoriety of the card, and I think it would continue to be worth more than the PSA 5.

Now, if a non-altered PSA 7 ever showed up, then I think that would eclipse the altered PSA 8. Of course, we wouldn't really know 100% if the PSA 7 was really non-altered...

This is pure conjecture until more buyers are informed of the current scandal and until the market experiences (what will likely be) a significant correction.

Lonewolf · 06-25-2019, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

I am probably bigger and weigh more than you Lonewolf!

Do you and Lonewolf sleep together or just travel as a pair?

There's the troll I was looking for!

Bruins1993 · 06-25-2019, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

There's the troll I was looking for!

You are clearly looking for a fight. If you have something on your mind say it instead of trolling my thread!

PM also sent if you'd like to discuss whatever your problem is over PM.

Lonewolf · 06-25-2019, 09:53 PM

No need for pms, I'll address you right here.

Your posts oddly vacillate between that of a "concerned collector" and an "alteration" apologist/troll. You sound like several of the folks who have been banned over the last few months for trolling, and your willingness to dive headlong into all of this scandal while spouting your rhetoric in such a short time exhibits an eagerness to defend oneself akin to several former members. This would explain why several other members alluded to the aforementioned similarities to banned members with "welcome back" and other related comments.

Spare me the feigned indignation with me merely pointing out what appears to be the reappearance of another troll while you use ad hominem insults and insinuations in order to provoke. By the way, I'll post in whatever thread I see fit, so don't get too upset.

Bruins1993 · 06-25-2019, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

No need for pms, I'll address you right here.

Your posts oddly vacillate between that of a "concerned collector" and an "alteration" apologist/troll. You sound like several of the folks who have been banned over the last few months for trolling, and your willingness to dive headlong into all of this scandal while spouting your rhetoric in such a short time exhibits an eagerness to defend oneself akin to several former members. This would explain why several other members alluded to the aforementioned similarities to banned members with "welcome back" and other related comments.

Spare me the feigned indignation with me merely pointing out what appears to be the reappearance of another troll while you use ad hominem insults and insinuations in order to provoke. By the way, I'll post in whatever thread I see fit, so don't get too upset.

I have never offered a single argument in defense of "alterations" or the new spin of "conservation" for sports cards with a slabbed grade. I consider both wrongful or criminal deception without disclosure, especially numerically graded slabbed cards!

I have never been registered on blowoutforums.com before. Since it doesn't appear you want to believe me I encourage you to have the moderator/s double-check my account if you feel strongly about it rather than treat me like someone else based on assumptions.

Attacking me first with snide message then immediately playing victim is ridiculous.

Lets stick to the discussion on the T206 Wagner Population report going forward. Thanks!

06-24-2019, 07:35 PM	#1
Bruins1993 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Stuck inside of Mobile Posts: 1,291	The "ALTERED" T206 Honus Wagner NM-MT 8 on PSA Population Report Here is the reply I received to my request that PSA update the PSA Population Report for 00000001 to reflect the NM-MT 8 be displayed as AUTHENTIC ALTERED : ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ PSA Population report as of 6/24/2019: Last edited by Bruins1993; 06-24-2019 at 07:38 PM.

06-24-2019, 07:41 PM	#2
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 90,223 ThoseBackPages	__________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

06-24-2019, 07:43 PM	#3
MoreToppsPlease Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 8,676	The "ALTERED" T206 Honus Wagner NM-MT 8 on PSA Population Report Crooks... Edit: Would they change their minds if a couple hundred more people demand it be removed?? __________________ IRS Tax Tip 2022-57 A hobby is any activity that a person pursues because they enjoy it and with no intention of making a profit. People operate a business with the intention of making a profit.

06-25-2019, 04:27 PM	#9
Bruins1993 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Stuck inside of Mobile Posts: 1,291	Wagner card in 'Good 2' condition goes for $1.2M May 28, 2019 Associated Press https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ition-goes-12m Here is a question for everyone on this forum: Do you think the value of this non-altered T206 Wagner PSA 2 would increase if the NM-MT 8 was removed from the population report and/or moved to being classified on the report as "Authentic"? Last edited by Bruins1993; 06-25-2019 at 04:31 PM.

06-25-2019, 04:34 PM	#10
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 90,223 ThoseBackPages	whos to say that 2 is not conserved? __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

06-24-2019, 07:58 PM	#4
JrFinest Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,117 jrfinest_cards	That is one card grading guarantee they would never honor. lol

06-24-2019, 08:46 PM	#5
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,660 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	They wouldn't have to. Last sale was for like $4 million and Ken Kendrick the owner said he was offered 4x that around the Mastro trial. So it's worth more as an altered card than a NM-MT 8. But Kendrick won't allow it to be reholdered.

06-24-2019, 08:59 PM	#6
rats60 Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,009	PSA graded sheet cut cards for over a decade and Beckett still does. It would open up a can of worms trying to track down all the other sheet cut cards and putting them in authentic holders. Then if they started refunding, both companies would go bankrupt.

06-24-2019, 09:10 PM	#7
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,660 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	Beckett doesn't have a grade guarantee. They are free to do whatever the hell they want to do unless their customers sue them for fraud or the Feds shut them down. Which seems to be getting more and more likely each passing day.

06-25-2019, 01:55 PM	#8
Rockiesfan1993 Banned Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 88	This is one reason I will never trust psa. They are a bunch of $h!theads. Everyone keeps acting like this card is an 8 when everyone knows it should have the A grade. They even graded another card from that same set that was also trimmed as an A. Which is the correct grade and the grade this card should have gotten. If this was my card I would take it out of the case and set the card on fire and then throw the case into a wood chipper. No part of this card should be allowed to be out there it all needs to be destroyed. The head grader and the ceo at the time even admitted that they knew the card was altered and that they should have have given it a A grade. How can anyone trust a company who is entirely built on fraud and lies. Every time I say I do not trust one of these companies you guys always jump on my back and tell me I have to trust these companies but unlike you I do not trust any company that is built on fraud and lies.

06-25-2019, 04:38 PM	#11
imbluestreak23 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Meandering the matrix code that the hobby/forum overlords spit out Posts: 17,780 shortslabs	Are we late for this one? Welcome back! __________________ @shortslabs I'VE WITNESSED HOW THE SAUSAGE IS MADE HERE...IT'S ROTTEN https://www.youtube.com/c/TylerShort

06-25-2019, 06:12 PM	#14
Lonewolf Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: California Posts: 4,438	He's a busy little poster ain't he? __________________ Apparently, Money and Computers *CAN* Buy Championships, LOL

06-25-2019, 06:41 PM	#17
JrFinest Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,117 jrfinest_cards	I remember a documentary on this card. PSA stood by their stance "this is still the best copy known to exist". So they must have been fans of conservation as well..... especially if their in a position to loose that type of money.

06-25-2019, 06:43 PM	#18
Bruins1993 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Stuck inside of Mobile Posts: 1,291	Deleted Last edited by Bruins1993; 06-29-2019 at 02:53 AM.

06-25-2019, 06:45 PM	#19
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 90,223 ThoseBackPages	__________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

06-25-2019, 09:53 PM	#24
Lonewolf Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: California Posts: 4,438	No need for pms, I'll address you right here. Your posts oddly vacillate between that of a "concerned collector" and an "alteration" apologist/troll. You sound like several of the folks who have been banned over the last few months for trolling, and your willingness to dive headlong into all of this scandal while spouting your rhetoric in such a short time exhibits an eagerness to defend oneself akin to several former members. This would explain why several other members alluded to the aforementioned similarities to banned members with "welcome back" and other related comments. Spare me the feigned indignation with me merely pointing out what appears to be the reappearance of another troll while you use ad hominem insults and insinuations in order to provoke. By the way, I'll post in whatever thread I see fit, so don't get too upset. __________________ Apparently, Money and Computers *CAN* Buy Championships, LOL