Altered Mcdavid cup rc 29/99 PSA 10 on auction by PWCC

[mwdonald]

Just a heads up for anyone bidding on this auction that this card has been altered. It was originally a bgs 8.5. The front top left corner had a small issue but the back top left corner was practically missing when it was a bgs 8.5. See pics below. The card does not appear to have been trimmed. The back top left corner was reconstructed somehow. It’s sad that someone is probably going to pay $50k+ for this card without knowing its history. Maybe BODA can work their magic on this card and see what they come up with? I know some of the eBay history on it if anyone wants some help. This card is one of the premier modern era hockey cards so it’s obviously a pretty big deal.

Current eBay listing:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/2015-The-Cup...C/352789277746

[regularp]

I assumed it was trimmed/touched up in some way and now there's confirmation.

[MossDC4L]

I am sure someone will chime in on this with more info they can find, looks trimmed but so hard to tell... can someone advise PWCC of this ?

[senorlaverga]

If you look at what used to be the damaged corner on the back, you can see the faint diagonal line was offset from the corner by a little bit. Now it’s perfectly lined up with the corner. Definitely trimmed. I wish we could see who previously bought this or subbed it to PSA or PWCC.

[gregggyf]

Originally Posted by senorlaverga

If you look at what used to be the damaged corner on the back, you can see the faint diagonal line was offset from the corner by a little bit. Now it’s perfectly lined up with the corner. Definitely trimmed. I wish we could see who previously bought this or subbed it to PSA or PWCC.

Hello senorlaverga, I am trying to compare the two back shot photos. Could you please tell me if the card was trimmed north-south or west-east or possibly both.

Thank you.

[3124508 on COMC]

Right edge (from front) and top edge are trimmed.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Right edge (from front) and top edge are trimmed.

What 312 said^^^
From the back, count the white lines from the left. I have marked line 22 in red.
The top and the left side (back view) are trimmed.

[senorlaverga]

There are serious garbage human beings in this hobby. They’re the vast minority but man.....

[Yankees28]

So my first thought with that top left corner is that it was folded over. It’s hard to describe in writing but sometimes the outer layer of the card can peel over a little. I had the same issue with a bowman chrome Yordan Alvarez...I sent it in and got an 8.5 on corners because of it. I snapped it out and folded it back over and got a 9.5 on corners. I don’t consider that altering. As far as the trimming is concerned, I’d be more interested to see how long the line furthest left is compared to the one in the bgs case. I mean, look at the card in the psa case, it seems to sit pretty nicely don’t you think? I’m always cautious with anything I’ve never bought from pwcc and will not for the foreseeable future but if the corner flap was just pushed back up then I’m ok with that.

[JMarchand1981]

Originally Posted by Yankees28

So my first thought with that top left corner is that it was folded over. It’s hard to describe in writing but sometimes the outer layer of the card can peel over a little. I had the same issue with a bowman chrome Yordan Alvarez...I sent it in and got an 8.5 on corners because of it. I snapped it out and folded it back over and got a 9.5 on corners. I don’t consider that altering. As far as the trimming is concerned, I’d be more interested to see how long the line furthest left is compared to the one in the bgs case. I mean, look at the card in the psa case, it seems to sit pretty nicely don’t you think? I’m always cautious with anything I’ve never bought from pwcc and will not for the foreseeable future but if the corner flap was just pushed back up then I’m ok with that.

You are describing a card being "dog eared" I believe.

[senorlaverga]

Originally Posted by Yankees28

So my first thought with that top left corner is that it was folded over. It’s hard to describe in writing but sometimes the outer layer of the card can peel over a little. I had the same issue with a bowman chrome Yordan Alvarez...I sent it in and got an 8.5 on corners because of it. I snapped it out and folded it back over and got a 9.5 on corners. I don’t consider that altering. As far as the trimming is concerned, I’d be more interested to see how long the line furthest left is compared to the one in the bgs case. I mean, look at the card in the psa case, it seems to sit pretty nicely don’t you think? I’m always cautious with anything I’ve never bought from pwcc and will not for the foreseeable future but if the corner flap was just pushed back up then I’m ok with that.

In the photos above, you can see that the lines in relation to the top of the card have changed. Same goes for the 9th line from the logo to the edge on the left side. In the original there is about 1/16" more space between the line and the edge of the card. Seems to me an obvious trim job.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by Yankees28

So my first thought with that top left corner is that it was folded over. It’s hard to describe in writing but sometimes the outer layer of the card can peel over a little. I had the same issue with a bowman chrome Yordan Alvarez...I sent it in and got an 8.5 on corners because of it. I snapped it out and folded it back over and got a 9.5 on corners. I don’t consider that altering. As far as the trimming is concerned, I’d be more interested to see how long the line furthest left is compared to the one in the bgs case. I mean, look at the card in the psa case, it seems to sit pretty nicely don’t you think? I’m always cautious with anything I’ve never bought from pwcc and will not for the foreseeable future but if the corner flap was just pushed back up then I’m ok with that.

Card is trimmed. Can’t make it clearer than post #7.

[3124508 on COMC]

Card is down. Hopefully PSA pays for that.

[gregggyf]

I am very sure that there is a program/software that can compare/compute
"the loss of area" between a before and after "event."

I see from post #7 that the red arrow is (which I call line #6) is closer to the edge of the card in the PSA slab as compared to the BGS slab.

Thank you for the close up photos.

[gregggyf]

Regarding the auction being stopped,

1) Did PWCC end it
2) Did Ebay end it
3) Could Ebay take it upon themselves to discontinue an auction without the permission of PWCC

I was wondering of the mechanics of this sort of process.

Thank you.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by gregggyf

Regarding the auction being stopped,

1) Did PWCC end it
2) Did Ebay end it
3) Could Ebay take it upon themselves to discontinue an auction without the permission of PWCC

I was wondering of the mechanics of this sort of process.

Thank you.

It was forwarded to PWCC’s counsel.

[regularp]

Originally Posted by gregggyf

Regarding the auction being stopped,

1) Did PWCC end it
2) Did Ebay end it
3) Could Ebay take it upon themselves to discontinue an auction without the permission of PWCC

I was wondering of the mechanics of this sort of process.

Thank you.

EBay almost never ends listings. PWCC ended it.

[gregggyf]

It was forwarded to PWCC’s counsel.

EBay almost never ends listings. PWCC ended it.

Thank you for your replies.

[nyisle]

Is it me, or does not look like a straight line. This is the front top left corner, not the damaged corner.


[IMG][/IMG]

edit just realized this is blown up too much and looks blurry, i'll see if i can get a better photo

[senorlaverga]

Originally Posted by nyisle

Is it me, or does not look like a straight line. This is the front top left corner, not the damaged corner.


[IMG][/IMG]

edit just realized this is blown up too much and looks blurry, i'll see if i can get a better photo

I see what youre talking about. Totally looks like a bad cut although that could've just been pixel distortion.

[KhalDrogo]

Good work guys. Wonder who consigned it.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Good work guys. Wonder who consigned it.

It already sold once. Trimmer =/= consignor.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

It already sold once. Trimmer =/= consignor.

Any idea who trimmed it then?

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Any idea who trimmed it then?

Nope. First sold by member here who made a post looking for it months before he sold it (and presumably purchased it). Unless he was really going for the long con, I'd say that he bought it from the trimmer. I forget the BO user's eBay ID. It's on PSA cert website.

[mwdonald]

Good work with close up pics.

The last mcdavid cup rpa psa 10 sold by pwcc went for 55k. This is a pop 3 card. Obviously we’re not talking small peanuts here.

As far as who may have trimmed the card, the info in the pics below may help (someone let me know if I’m not supposed to post these). The bgs 8.5 pics I have came from the seller from Toronto. So the card wasn’t trimmed at that point. The next time it showed up for sale (on eBay) last year it was a psa 10. I know the guy that sold it last year on eBay. He bought the card in a private deal as a psa 10. So somewhere between the cmcdavid97 sale and the private sale it was trimmed. If cmcdavid97 and the guy I know who bought the card privately were willing to say who they bought/sold the card to/from I think we’d have our answer. Or if we could find out subbed the card to psa.