Card companies not paying artists for their work.

[Carrbeaz]

I don't want to say any names of artists or card companies at this point, but I am sure some of the artists will definitely speak up on the matter.

It has come to my attention that some of the larger companies are simply not paying artists for their work, and we are talking about work that was done more than 4 years ago.

I know in the comic book industry there is a non-profit that helps support artists and authors and it's called the CBLDF(Comic Book Legal Defense Fund)
I wonder if artists could contact them for help with legal matter in retaining council to help get the money that is owed.

Edit to add a link to their page: http://cbldf.org/

[HiltonL]

This has been going on for a while now, and is shameful.

At first it was the marginal, indie companies that were folding and not paying. Now it's the established big-boy companies and that is a horrible abuse of the artists who are providing labor up-front.

[Rictor]

The pay is so low to begin with. It's sad when sketch artists are paid $5 and that same sketch is used as the main hit in a $200 box of cards.

[HiltonL]

Used to be, the risk to artists was rejections. Now it's not being paid at all.

I don't buy the dollar-sketch-in-expensive-box argument. There are plenty of extremes fans will go to in order to get cheaply made tchochkes. The artists sign the contracts, they know they are getting paid peanuts, they are betting on themselves, to come out in the long run.

[finfangfan]

Originally Posted by Carrbeaz

I know in the comic book industry there is a non-profit that helps support artists and authors and it's called the CBLDF(Comic Book Legal Defense Fund)
I wonder if artists could contact them for help with legal matter in retaining council to help get the money that is owed.

Edit to add a link to their page: http://cbldf.org/

CBLDF supports the First Amendment rights of artists and has absolutely nothing to do with defending artists who don’t get paid (even though that sucks too).

Check out the FAQ at http://cbldf.org/f-a-q/

“ What is the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund?

Comic Book Legal Defense Fund is a non-profit organization dedicated to the protection of the First Amendment rights of the comics art form and its community of retailers, creators, publishers, librarians, and readers. The CBLDF provides legal referrals, representation, advice, assistance, and education in furtherance of these goals.

What kinds of cases does Comic Book Legal Defense Fund assist?

The CBLDF provides legal referrals, representation, advice, assistance and education to cases affecting the First Amendment right to read, create, publish, sell, and distribute comics and graphic novels. We help individuals and businesses who are being criminally prosecuted because of the comic books they read, make, buy, or sell. We help creators who are being attacked in cases where their work is clearly protected as parody or fair use. We help libraries gather resources to defend graphic novel challenges. We are the first line of defense when authorities intimidate individuals or businesses about the comics they read, make, buy or sell. Often a letter or phone call from the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund’s lawyers will end a case before it starts.”

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[LC2nine10]

Since its so little money would it make sense to jist file in small claims court and collect when the big card company doesnt send anyone to dispute?
Or are these multi-thousand dollar contracts?

[Rictor]

Originally Posted by LC2nine10

Since its so little money would it make sense to jist file in small claims court and collect when the big card company doesnt send anyone to dispute?
Or are these multi-thousand dollar contracts?

Unless it's a big name artist with a rare deal, these should be small enough amounts for small claims court. That's the route I would go. You can file it yourself, no need to hire a lawyer.

[jjas311]

Originally Posted by Rictor

Unless it's a big name artist with a rare deal, these should be small enough amounts for small claims court. That's the route I would go. You can file it yourself, no need to hire a lawyer.

We need to get a small claim trial on Judge Judy - that kind of bad publicity would get the card companies attention, right?!

Haha seriously though this is some shady stuff. A guy at my LCS has sketched for a few companies and he tells me it’s awful. He loves drawing though so he keeps doing it.

[Zeldafanatic15]

There's a board game publisher , Golden Bell Atudios, absolutely awful company. I unfortunately was a late backer to a game they published that was absolutely horrendous. I won't go through the details, but they have a lot of shady business practices, and they got taken to The People's Court by someone over her game she made. She won, the episode will air in April, and Golden Bell was trying to block the episode from airing. Taking them to small claims will hopefully get some publicity to the issue, but they more than likely will send someone, most big companies have a legal department for this exact thing, but it's pretty cut and dry.

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[Grid]

Sadly, artists suing will only hurt the artist. Its not fair, but its true.

Here is part of a blurb from an artist that will appear at a show near me

His work has been featured on sketch cards for Topps in sets for Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Indiana Jones, and Heroes. He has also done sketch cards for Marvel Masterpieces and Iron Man for Upper Deck.

These poor artists agree to work on marquee sets for the right to say they have, which leads to being a "known artist". And with that, they can promote themselves better, when selling their own art, taking commissions or just leveraging more work.

That is the collateral money for doing these sets. It is not so much the $5.00 per card for their art, which they absolutely should still be paid for.

If they speak up, shame on social media or start filing lawsuits, they will find it hard to get that same kind of work going forward.

They are literally over a barrel. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

[discostu]

If it's fact, name the companies.


Artists want help? Lean on the consumer to help.


If it's a poorly run, kiting, and historically unfaithful payer like Upper Deck...you get what you expect.

[Zeldafanatic15]

Originally Posted by discostu

If it's fact, name the companies.


Artists want help? Lean on the consumer to help.


If it's a poorly run, kiting, and historically unfaithful payer like Upper Deck...you get what you expect.

I know one of them has been named on the boards here, I have my suspicions about another one, but not positive.

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[mantis923]

Here's one....

[rudzud]

Originally Posted by mantis923

Here's one....

oof...

[Monsterwaxguy]

That last post is rather Cryptic...

[jhssketchcards]

As an artist in several SW sets the past few years I will weigh in on this. It’s true I know ahead of time how much (little) is being offered per sketch. But I’m ok with it because I know that the APs will make up for it. Now it’s also whey I do t crank out 100-140 sketches. I also pick which sets I do, pacing myself.
I will also add how much I enjoy doing sketches for non-sports versus sports. The fans of my work in non-sports have truly appreciated me and my work.
Every one who has bought from me or inquired about work has been very kind and professional. I can’t say that about sports collectors as a whole. There have been many exceptions but most want an AP for peanuts as well to add to their PC.
Last, one thing I try to do is give 100% effort in any sketch, no matter the rate or price. The quality you find in a pack pulled sketch is the same you get in an AP. I have heard from a few artists who approach it different, and to each his/her own.


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[breindel]

I spoke with a lawyer about the situation being discussed here, and I did a lot of research. Let me offer some insights (keep in mind I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, and you should either consult a lawyer or do your own research).

The first thing to know is that unless you live in the same state and near the county of the defendant then small claims court is not an option. You will be asked to appear in person even if you file the claim by mail. If you do live in the same state, and are willing to travel to the county in question then I suggest you go this route. Your best outcome is a summary judgement when the other party doesn't show. After this is done you have lots of options for recovering payment.

The next question to ask if small claims court is not an option is do you have the funds to hire a lawyer, and are you willing to front that cost while you wait for a court date or settlement? Most of us do not, and are not, and it's really only worth considering if the amount owed is in the several thousands of dollars range. Even then companies have legal counsel full time or on retainer, and it will cost you more than it will cost them. Their hope is to drain you.

One other note about going the route of hiring a lawyer is that the first thing the defendant will do is throw the contract back at you. They'll point to the clause regarding arbitration, and tell you that suing is not an option, and will get a judge to appoint an arbitrator. The contract will also spell out that all disputes will be handled in the district of the defendant. Again, are you willing and able to travel for arbitration?

So what should you do? In most cases, you cut your losses, wait for full or partial payment, and move on with your life. If you start badmouthing the company online I guarantee regardless of whether or not you're right, you'll get a cease and desist. You might also be slapped with a lawsuit. Trust me, it happens -- they'll get an injunction, and you won't be able to talk about it.

The only additional recourse you may have is if you had a full time employment relationship with the company. Then, and only then will the state's labor board intervene on your behalf. Otherwise as a contractor you're screwed. My last bit of warning is that if you are concerned about this happening again to you in the future TALK TO A LAWYER! Have them review the contract and suggest changes that benefit you. You can suggest these changes to the company before doing work for them, but they'll likely tell you to get lost.

Is all that hassle and risk worth $5 per sketch card?

[WaltTF]

Originally Posted by breindel

If you start badmouthing the company online I guarantee regardless of whether or not you're right, you'll get a cease and desist.

You guarantee it? Really?

You should probably reread your first 2 sentences, which I've handily quoted for you here:

Originally Posted by breindel

I spoke with a lawyer about the situation being discussed here, and I did a lot of research. Let me offer some insights (keep in mind I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, and you should either consult a lawyer or do your own research).

...and then ask your lawyer what happens to people with licenses to practice law who provide specific guarantees about outcomes without knowing all the facts of the specific case. (Hint: it's nothing good)

Then ask them what happens when those same guarantees are provided by someone who isn't licensed to practice law. (Hint: it's even worse)

Saying "this isn't legal advice" doesn't make blatant legal advice into not legal advice. And make no mistake, guaranteeing a specific legal outcome if a person does something absolutely, 100%, is legal advice. You don't say "here's what could happen" or "here's what happened to other people in this situation"--you said "here's what will happen to you; I guarantee it".

Originally Posted by breindel

...they'll get an injunction, and you won't be able to talk about it.

They WILL?

Not "they might", but they WILL?

You speak awfully definitively for someone who probably shouldn't be speaking on the subject at all beyond "talk to a lawyer".

See above.

Seriously, run this post past your lawyer. See what they have to say about you telling people what you guarantee will happen to them in court, without being licensed to practice law or knowing all the relevant facts of their case.

There's a reason that those commercials say things like "You could be entitled to financial compensation", and not, "you are", and, then, at the end, say things like "We can't guarantee any specific outcome" and "you need to speak to an attorney for specific information as it pertains to your situation".

[breindel]

So instead of refuting anything I said you decided to play the part of a lawyer yourself regarding whether or not my post constitutes legal advice? Are you a lawyer? Have you talked to a lawyer? Ever been in a lawsuit? Are you an artist not getting paid?

[oldgoldy97]

Internet lawyers....fun.

[RAV2773]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

Internet lawyers....fun.

Internet lawyers remind me of an old Jerky Boys skit where they call up a lawyer to ask him advice about sueing somebody and when the lawyer tells him that he cant sue, they end up asking the lawyer if they can sue him (the lawyer) for punitive damages and saying hurtful things to him over the phone.....and the lawyer is like "you wanna sue me?" Lol

[jhssketchcards]

The bottom line is as artists we agree to the terms that are submitted, there is no arm twisting, or forcible agreement. The document clearly spells it out. If the artist agrees to the terms, he/she replies and accepts them. I’m not exactly saying the rate is good, but when I read what the rate is, and I reply, I’m accepting the terms as they are. To me if I do that, I no longer have a right to complain about the low rate per sketch. If I don’t want to do the sketch set, or accept the rate, then I don’t reply. It’s all pretty simple.

It’s no different than being an offered a job for minimum wage, accepting it but then complaining the company doesn’t pay well. If you don’t like it, you shouldn’t accept it. Some artists can live with it, some can’t.


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[breindel]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

The bottom line is as artists we agree to the terms that are submitted, there is no arm twisting, or forcible agreement. The document clearly spells it out. If the artist agrees to the terms, he/she replies and accepts them. I’m not exactly saying the rate is good, but when I read what the rate is, and I reply, I’m accepting the terms as they are. To me if I do that, I no longer have a right to complain about the low rate per sketch. If I don’t want to do the sketch set, or accept the rate, then I don’t reply. It’s all pretty simple.

It’s no different than being an offered a job for minimum wage, accepting it but then complaining the company doesn’t pay well. If you don’t like it, you shouldn’t accept it. Some artists can live with it, some can’t.


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Very well said. My last point about the $5 wasn't really meant to dissuade others from doing sketch cards although it probably came off that way. Most of us, including myself, make more money on the APs anyhow. However, if someone is fresh and new to this then it's worth noting that the risk is much greater now when you might not get paid for any of it. I hope that turns around.

[Cubby5454]

Originally Posted by breindel

Very well said. My last point about the $5 wasn't really meant to dissuade others from doing sketch cards although it probably came off that way. Most of us, including myself, make more money on the APs anyhow. However, if someone is fresh and new to this then it's worth noting that the risk is much greater now when you might not get paid for any of it. I hope that turns around.

I am not a lawyer.
I am also not an artist.
And to be 100% honest, I could really care a less about the hobby anymore after getting crushed on a few terrible products and money grabs by the manufacturers.

That being said, I find it despicable that manufacturers, who are paying almost nothing for these sketch cards to begin with, are now not even paying the artists the money they owe them.

This seems to maybe be the underlying question- If an artist enters into an agreement with a manufacturer to draw sketch cards, draws and submits them to that company, but does not get paid for them- does the artwork not remain the intellectual property of the artist? If so and the company uses them in the product, can it not be a matter of theft? That might be a reason right there to sue for maybe more than the original price that was agreed in the contract. The fact that the company did not honor the contract would make it null and void and the artist is now free to pursue market value from the company for their work due to theft of intellectual property? Again- I am not a lawyer, so might be way off base, but the question should be asked.

[mantis923]

said company probably shouldn't be doing sketches anymore....and prob couldn't afford a lawyer right now to send a cease and desist