Sealed wax boxes, raw vs bbce wrap vs from a sealed case multipliers

[Tim]

Hi, anyone know the typical multiplier between a vintage wax box with no authentication (but presumed to be trustworthy) vs in bbce wrap and then between bbce wrap vs bbce fasc wrap?
TIA

[smackvay]

interesting question- I will wait for an answer also.

[Archangel1775]

More than 1.0x and less than 1.5x......that's all I got.

[Tndbitler]

Unless i personally know the dealer i would never buy any unopened wax product pre 1985 baseball or pre 1989 football with out BBCE wrapping. I would add the i think the premium for whatever product you buy is determined by the year. As an example, I have seen 1984 Topps Football unwrapped list for $500 to 700 dollars per box. Most BBCE wrapped boxes run from 900 to 1000. From a sealed case run from 1100 to 1300. I will pay the premium for the peace of mind.

[rats60]

Topps and Donruss are easy to tell if the boxes have been tampered with. Fleer is the one that I would only buy if I knew who broke the case open. BBCE isn't some great expect that has secret knowledge about unopened product. Anyone who handles a lot of product can do the same. Dealing with a reputable dealer is just as important as their wrap. Remember it wasn't that long ago that they certified a searched 1982 Fleer box that had a 1981 Fleer pack in it.

[WaveofCards]

The thing to remember is that BBCE wrapped "Wax Box" designation simply means all the packs in the box are legit- NOT that all those packs came in that box.

BBCE wrapped FASC is obviously what you're after. Steve won't wrapped them with this designation unless he personally cracks the original seal on the case box. These are the cream of the crop.

BBCE wrapped "Wax Box"es are almost always picked over and potpourii'd. You're actually more likely to get an unsearched raw box, rather than a BBCE "Wax Box" because if you think about it, the very people who send in boxes to be wrapped are the same ones who know the runs, have multiple boxes, and pull star packs to PSA grade.

If you see anyone selling PSA packs, and also BBCE "Wax Box" well then, you know where the packs came from. Run for the hills.

BBCE "wax box" is about the most inflated price designation out there IMHO. Simply bc you're almost guaranteed to have a picked over box. Personally, I'd rather take my chance with a dusty raw box for a lot cheaper, but that's just me.

[mma138]

The thing to remember is that BBCE wrapped "Wax Box" designation simply means all the packs in the box are legit- NOT that all those packs came in that box.



I been telling people this for so long. also this si the reason I will not pay $$$$$$$$$ for one of those boxes

[blackborders]

Okay. Some people pay a premium to have a company examine the packs in a vintage box. If they determine that the packs are "legit", they shrink wrap the box. And magically, that box is worth a lot more.

Sounds like a lot of people are gullible and easy to mollify.

In 1989, I bought boxes of Upper Deck Baseball from a show dealer. I opened the packs. I did not pull a single Griffey or Sheffield rookie. I got several of the lesser rookies, and multiples of many players. Later, when I learned how easy it was to search Upper Deck boxes, i realized the boxes I bought were searched.

Suppose that I had not ripped those packs and simply saved those 36 pack foil boxes until today. And now, I submitted them to be "authenticated" and shrink wrapped. The authenticator would examine the packs and recognize them as legit, and shrink wrap the box. Then it could be sold for a premium--- because the packs are "legit?" No, it would sell for a premium because some gullible soul believes that it is an unsearched box--- as it was when it left the factory.

The assumption is that these boxes will remain forever shrink wrapped, so none will ever be exposed as searched.

[49ersSF]

Originally Posted by WaveofCards

The thing to remember is that BBCE wrapped "Wax Box" designation simply means all the packs in the box are legit- NOT that all those packs came in that box.

BBCE wrapped FASC is obviously what you're after. Steve won't wrapped them with this designation unless he personally cracks the original seal on the case box. These are the cream of the crop.

BBCE wrapped "Wax Box"es are almost always picked over and potpourii'd. You're actually more likely to get an unsearched raw box, rather than a BBCE "Wax Box" because if you think about it, the very people who send in boxes to be wrapped are the same ones who know the runs, have multiple boxes, and pull star packs to PSA grade.

If you see anyone selling PSA packs, and also BBCE "Wax Box" well then, you know where the packs came from. Run for the hills.

BBCE "wax box" is about the most inflated price designation out there IMHO. Simply bc you're almost guaranteed to have a picked over box. Personally, I'd rather take my chance with a dusty raw box for a lot cheaper, but that's just me.

If you are talking about finding some dusty box at a garage sale I'd agree. If you are talking eBay there is no way in hell I would buy vintage unopened unless it was authenticate by BBCE/PSA.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by 49ersSF

If you are talking about finding some dusty box at a garage sale I'd agree. If you are talking eBay there is no way in hell I would buy vintage unopened unless it was authenticate by BBCE/PSA.

RVP is legit to, the owner's name is Kurt and wraps boxes only from sealed cases.

[timber09]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

RVP is legit to, the owner's name is Kurt and wraps boxes only from sealed cases.

Kurt is great - I have picked up a fair amount of stuff from him. He has also saved me some money on cases that appeared to be sealed but had, in fact, been resealed. Fantastic resource.
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe they have expanded their authentication to some non-FASC products with sealed boxes - not 100% certain on that but I thought I saw an announcement on that awhile back.

I joined this facebook group a few years ago - there are a ton of members that just have a ridiculous amount of knowledge when it comes to unopened material as a whole. I mostly lurk and just absorb the material but it is also a great place to buy, sell and trade unopened stuff.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/937098246386987

[mjohnatgt]

Here's an interesting thread related to the OP:
https://forums.collectors.com/discus...ostly-unopened

[pip]

Originally Posted by WaveofCards

The thing to remember is that BBCE wrapped "Wax Box" designation simply means all the packs in the box are legit- NOT that all those packs came in that box.

BBCE wrapped FASC is obviously what you're after. Steve won't wrapped them with this designation unless he personally cracks the original seal on the case box. These are the cream of the crop.

BBCE wrapped "Wax Box"es are almost always picked over and potpourii'd. You're actually more likely to get an unsearched raw box, rather than a BBCE "Wax Box" because if you think about it, the very people who send in boxes to be wrapped are the same ones who know the runs, have multiple boxes, and pull star packs to PSA grade.

If you see anyone selling PSA packs, and also BBCE "Wax Box" well then, you know where the packs came from. Run for the hills.

BBCE "wax box" is about the most inflated price designation out there IMHO. Simply bc you're almost guaranteed to have a picked over box. Personally, I'd rather take my chance with a dusty raw box for a lot cheaper, but that's just me.

This reality is something the BBCE fanbois have great difficulty accepting. Another alternative is to just buy a sealed case and skip the middle men.

[pip]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

Here's an interesting thread related to the OP:
https://forums.collectors.com/discus...ostly-unopened

Looks like Roger & Christopher Hooper tried a second time to scam collectors with resealed packs and cases. They both belong in jail. And gaspipe (gaspipe26 on ebay) is pretty dishonest too. I would never buy anything from someone like that who sets aside proper ethical behavior because of the amount of money involved. He thought he could double or triple his money in a short period of time and ignored many warnings that the wax he was reselling wasn't legit. He also mislead his buyers and failed to properly inform them BEFORE the sale.

[pip]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

Here's an interesting thread related to the OP:
https://forums.collectors.com/discus...ostly-unopened

Thank you for providing the link. A very worthwhile and informative read for anyone who collects vintage unopened packs/boxes/cases. Christopher Hooper has some balls trying to scam collectors out of $1 million plus in resealed sh*t. And he was planning to have another sale of similar size later this year. Based on all the vintage wrappers and boxes involved, he must have been planning this for quite some time.