the sky is the limit

[patchgenie]

it seems like box prices won't go down again. if you like soccer and players you've never watched on tv, then any amount would be a fair price.

if you like james wiseman and a few decent players next year, then prizm might start at 2k a box. seems like prices will never be reasonable again and will have to go to target or wally's and end up looking at empty prizm displays.

[cowboyzqna]

Whoa is us.


Its a fun time in the hobby i think.

[Stackfan]

I think it's kind of sad in a way, but not all bad. Realistically what's going to happen is Panini is keep upping production on Prizm & Optic, until people are unwilling to pay the ridiculous increasing prices. Eventually a new product will come along thats reasonably priced that people latch onto.

If I'm Panini.... I'm thinking about a direct to consumer approach. If a collector can't buy the product at hobby and retail shops on day 1... that's a problem.

[Vinny1984]

Panini needs to figure out retail. All that’s currently happening is guys with lucky timing (or knows the stocker) are coming and buying them all and reselling at 3-4x.

It’s not paninis fault. They created a product with increasing demand and price them fairly at retail. It the greed of the secondary market. We can’t be shocked it this. Money will always be king.

This is why I’m staying away from all Prizm and optic base. Singles are readily available any second of the day. I can’t even began to imagine what the print run of Prizm will be next year.

[ThoseBackPages]

its awesome!

[gomiamigo]

Originally Posted by Stackfan

If I'm Panini.... I'm thinking about a direct to consumer approach. If a collector can't buy the product at hobby and retail shops on day 1... that's a problem.

It's a huge long-term problem for them. I used to spend 5 figures a year ripping wax, now I just buy old singles off ebay and maybe one or two retail boxes.

They've priced rippers, collectors, and kids out of their own market. I doubt the NBA is happy about it either although they have bigger fish to fry.

Once the flippers move on to the next hot thing [maybe as soon as this fall given the horrid rookie class] things could move against them. It's bad for their brand.

[LC2nine10]

Originally Posted by cowboyzqna

Whoa is us.


Its a fun time in the hobby i think.

It is waaay past "hobby" for these people.
Remember the tulips.

[yaoming]

Originally Posted by gomiamigo

It's a huge long-term problem for them. I used to spend 5 figures a year ripping wax, now I just buy old singles off ebay and maybe one or two retail boxes.



They've priced rippers, collectors, and kids out of their own market. I doubt the NBA is happy about it either although they have bigger fish to fry.



Once the flippers move on to the next hot thing [maybe as soon as this fall given the horrid rookie class] things could move against them. It's bad for their brand.

I m with you gomiamigo, for years i said this to myself. I stopped opening high end new wax since 17-18 season.
However now i m starting to finally realize that “collectors” are way outnumbered by “flippers” and the number of people who do group breaks are huge, hence the “loss” of money from people who rip their own wax is miniscule



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[nrm1977]

This all reminds me of the glory days of cards from 1987-1993 until that bubble exploded! Back then every product was hot hot! I especially remember 1992-93 basketball products. Those were like cardboard gold! Card shop owners would line up at Sams club to buy pallets of stadium club basketball at mrsp and then sell it for 3x.

[Hail2TheVictors]

Things will slow down next year, for sure. The draft class doesn’t come close to this years.

Stuff will still sell at crazy prices. But it won’t be like this year.

[BC81]

Originally Posted by LC2nine10

It is waaay past "hobby" for these people.

Remember the tulips.

The Tulipmania already occurred in the 90’s junk boom.

This, I honestly don’t know what this is. Rare Jordan/Kobe/Lebron cards will always be in demand. Maybe cards have already become a legitimate alternative investment like wine, art, coins, or first edition books, etc.

There is always a possibility that cards could see a dip, but I don’t expect a crash like the junk era again.


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[KhalDrogo]

Panini needs to massively increase production and work on their global distribution. The hobby needs to grow beyond the US and Asia. I am not expert, but I hope Panini is looking at shifting printing in house. Much of the constraint right now is them sharing it with other companies. Panini can’t simply say “make double the amount of Prizm”. Which is absurd because the hobby can more than handle it.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Hail2TheVictors

Things will slow down next year, for sure. The draft class doesn’t come close to this years.

Stuff will still sell at crazy prices. But it won’t be like this year.

Slow down, but your veteran hobby star list is growing...

LeBron
Curry
Giannis
Durant
Luka
Trae
Tatum
Zion
Morant

[codered]

I know people like to complain about box prices and they blame the panini monopoly or group breaking but those both existed in 2015 when you could buy old boxes of 2013-14 prizm for $40. Really three big things have changed in the last few years that have driven up prices in my opinion.

1. New money in the hobby. It’s not hard to see that there is more money in the hobby today than there was five years ago.

2. Prices of singles are way up. Partly because of the new money (ie more buyers) and partly because we have had a influx of generational (not just really good player) in the major sports. Mahomes in football, Luka and Zion in basketball and Acuna, judge and OG fat boy in baseball (not to mention trout who some consider could be the greatest baseball player ever and is in his prime). The more expensive the single coming out of the boxes the more expensive boxes prices will be

3. More people than ever before are hoarding wax for the long term drying up supply faster than ever before. I remember 5-10 years again you might see a new thread about a stash of boxes from a member. Now people are showing off their wax hoard every couple of days. The faster wax leaves the suppliers hands the quicker they push up the price. It doesn’t matter to them if you keep it sealed or bust it open.

I don’t see wax prices dropping anytime soon unfortunately. I wish I would have capitalized on the cheap wax I could have purchased years ago and stored it away but I definitely didn’t have the foresight. I still take great enjoyment searching for singles and putting together sets.

[codered]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Slow down, but your veteran hobby star list is growing...

LeBron
Curry
Giannis
Durant
Luka
Trae
Tatum
Zion
Morant

Yeap....prizm won’t be cheap when people are gonna be paying $100+ for lebron silvers, $100 plus for Zion second year silvers and decent money for the other guys you have listed. It’s definitely a huge change in the hobby right now

[anusinha]

We've gone way past the sky and the moon and are heading straight for Uranus.

[cking]

I think there is alot of market manipulation going on with alot of things. I could be wrong.

I look at it like this.

If someone would have asked you this question three years ago, what would your answer have been. Be honest.

"If there was no pro sports being played and there was no forseeable date as to when pro sports will start again and the unemployment rate was at 20%, do you think the price of cards would go up, and not only up but the roof during the time no sports are being played? "

What would your answer have been? Again, answer honestly?

My answer would have been, if no pro sports are being played then interest would go down and in turn prices would go down.

I think some people are scared of thier investments losing value and are manipulating the market like crazy.

I mean, everything going sky high in price just happens to fall right in the middle of a period where the unemployment rate is at almost 20%.

Thats just one big coincidence, right?

[codered]

Originally Posted by cking

I think there is alot of market manipulation going on with alot of things. I could be wrong.

I look at it like this.

If someone would have asked you this question three years ago, what would your answer have been. Be honest.

"If there was no pro sports being played and there was no forseeable date as to when pro sports will start again and the unemployment rate was at 20%, do you think the price of cards would go up, and not only up but the roof during the time no sports are being played? "

What would your answer have been? Again, answer honestly?

My answer would have been, if no pro sports are being played then interest would go down and in turn prices would go down.

I think some people are scared of thier investments losing value and are manipulating the market like crazy.

I mean, everything going sky high in price just happens to fall right in the middle of a period where the unemployment rate is at almost 20%.

Thats just one big coincidence, right?

Prices were going up before Covid though. Too many players, cards and sports have seen substantial increases for me to believe it’s just a game of pump and dump. If it was a single player or two, or even a set I’d agree with you but the amount of cards increasing just doesn’t make sense as a pump and dump in my opinion. The amount of people and money involved would just be to great to coordinate all of this

[SDcardguy24]

the ceiling is the roof

[Spink]

Originally Posted by codered

Prices were going up before Covid though. Too many players, cards and sports have seen substantial increases for me to believe it’s just a game of pump and dump. If it was a single player or two, or even a set I’d agree with you but the amount of cards increasing just doesn’t make sense as a pump and dump in my opinion. The amount of people and money involved would just be to great to coordinate all of this

Exactly.

Americans Spend Crazy Money - Americans Cant Spend Crazy Money At Many Places Now - Americans Spend Crazy Money Online Now - Americans Are Crazy.

Americans I have no idea what to do with all this "free" time, so they have their smartphone in their hand and go spend spend spend. Americans spend to free themselves from boredom and a sense of happiness. Crazy.

[mvp]

I really wish Panini would implement a subscription / club model where I could guarantee myself access to releases without having to do the retail fight. I don’t need a billion units of each configuration, I’d just like to open one of each. Would help Panini predict print runs etc also.

[beavers]

I was ripping Hoops Hobby at under $100 into late February. It is now impossible to find under $200, and more likely $225. Everything is rising at ridiculous paces. Chinese New Year is the last cheap rip.




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[mc1]

Originally Posted by cking

I think there is alot of market manipulation going on with alot of things. I could be wrong.

I look at it like this.

If someone would have asked you this question three years ago, what would your answer have been. Be honest.

"If there was no pro sports being played and there was no forseeable date as to when pro sports will start again and the unemployment rate was at 20%, do you think the price of cards would go up, and not only up but the roof during the time no sports are being played? "

What would your answer have been? Again, answer honestly?

My answer would have been, if no pro sports are being played then interest would go down and in turn prices would go down.

I think some people are scared of thier investments losing value and are manipulating the market like crazy.

I mean, everything going sky high in price just happens to fall right in the middle of a period where the unemployment rate is at almost 20%.

Thats just one big coincidence, right?

Two words: flippers, investors

[kevbojones]

This market is the Wild West right now.

Sell. Sell. Sell.

People are buying on pure emotion right now.

I've got a few sleepers I'm picking up, but mostly I'm cashing in right now.

Stupid money flying around and uninformed buyers

Working on flipping those Kevin Maas, Ben McDonald and Todd Van Poppel rookies right now.

Gonna turn that in to a nice vintage card

LOL. I kid I Kid.

[hermanotarjeta]

People are making more money now than ever with their unemployment checks - why work when you can be sitting around the house buying cards on line?