Known Trimmed LBJ Exquisite #74/99 Now in PWCC Vault With BGS Letter Confirming Grade

[3124508 on COMC]

Buyer beware.

BGS Letter = Trimmed Card

Read here for more info: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1255123

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/vault-marketplace/3471

[AbraCalabro]

Waahh! I'm telling my lawyers!

Let's see BGS stand by their grade on this one.

[GeechQuest]

Those are just....like....pictures....MAAAAAAAAAAN....

This comes with a BGS letter!!!

[LondonGames]

The BGS confirmation letter proves one thing.

It proves that BGS has no clue how to determine whether or not a card is trimmed.

That's the best case scenario. The only other scenario is that they are intentionally turning a blind eye, and are complicit in a fraudulent scheme.

[hermanotarjeta]

If you are buying high end cards without checking the BO forums - you have way too much money.

Sad thing is, someone will eventually buy it.

[Cheken]

Excellent work as always!

[pejc300]

I mean, imagine if Beckett came out and said they were sorry. They missed it. They didn't realize it and it is their fault. They made a mistake.

Would they be roasted for not being experts? Sure. But it sure seems like it would actually do them more harm than good. I would give them more business for sure.

Beckett and Jeromy Murray remind me of when I watch my child take a cookie from the cookie jar and then they say "I didn't do it" even if I watched them do it or even if there is video evidence.

[auburn35]

What a joke. Close down that Lebron altered thread and then PWCC ends up with another one of the identified cards and is attempting to sell without disclosure, again with the help of Beckett.

Curious if this is BNC selling through PWCC or if the card was sold and the new buyer is trying to pass it off as good.

Originally Posted by ebitz;

It has always been my goal to hold these cards as long as I possibly could and I think owning them for 5 years supports that. I never had any real intention of selling them and I still do not. If the point comes where I want to sell them all I can say is that I will do my best to handle it as responsibly as possible. I understand the magnitude of these cards and the responsibility I have of owning these. I cannot predict the future, and at this point I cannot imagine selling them so it's hard to know how I may or may not go about it when that time comes. This is all I can really promise for now and hopefully it is found to be reasonable.

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by pejc300

I mean, imagine if Beckett came out and said they were sorry. They missed it. They didn't realize it and it is their fault. They made a mistake.

Would they be roasted for not being experts? Sure. But it sure seems like it would actually do them more harm than good. I would give them more business for sure.

The thing is, we already know they made a mistake. I don't think there would be a lot of roasting. Maybe more lawsuit-ing.

[Bob Ross]

Beckett will never admit fault on things like this.

Can someone please help me understand:

1) Why is Beckett the judge and jury for their own work on an obviously trimmed card? Of course they are going to say it's not trimmed. It's the only thing they can say or else everything they've ever done and will do won't be trusted.

2) Why are outside companies or industry experts/consultants not brought in to verify these instead of Beckett?

As I said in the past, Beckett verifying these is like a mob boss being the judge in their own murder trial.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Beckett will never admit fault on things like this.

Can someone please help me understand:

1) Why is Beckett the judge and jury for their own work on an obviously trimmed card? Of course they are going to say it's not trimmed. It's the only thing they can say or else everything they've ever done and will do won't be trusted.

2) Why are outside companies or industry experts/consultants not brought in to verify these instead of Beckett?

As I said in the past, Beckett verifying these is like a mob boss being the judge in their own murder trial.

Because PWCC doesn't care if the card is or isn't actually trimmed. They simply believe that this procedure they've worked out with the grading companies absolves them of legal responsibility for selling altered cards.

[mjohnatgt]

Well, PWCC lawyer Jeff Lichtman posts at the new internet forum www.sportscardtalk.com but doesn't watch over everything PWCC is doing. You could ask him to weigh in on this new "process" of Beckett clearing trimmed cards with before and after photo history.

[Exquisite074]

I have every public picture of that card and have it on my tracker as trimmed as well!




However, as sad as it sounds, I don't think people really care now, and definitely won't in the future! There are a bunch of reasons why I feel this way but I'll list 2 main ones...

I used to think that box breaks was a fad and would die down as true collectors wouldn't want someone else opening their cards for them (that's part of the fun) and most don't even open cards properly, protect immediately, etc... I was completely wrong. Even though I've never participated in a single break - it's gotten even bigger than ever! I was thinking about collectors, I ignored that most people collecting cards now are addicts... that forced prices up even with quality coming down. Even some true collectors started participating in breaks because, financially, that is one of their only options at higher prices ... yes there are many other reasons (some collectors are gamblers, it's fun, etc.) but I'm pointing out my main belief was completely wrong a decade ago - which tells me people are willing to change their behaviors and overlook things if it means getting the card they want, or making $, etc... This makes me feel that most people won't care if a card proven to be trimmed, they will accept the grades as stated (the only exception is people won't pay a premium on a known fake patch and card companies don't authenticate patches anyway). Similar to "trimmed" cards - cards cut from sheets used to sell for pennies on the dollar as novelty cards for your PC. Not anymore, now people are treating them as almost as good as the real insert and I've seen crazy prices paid for them, people just don't seem to care (as in voting with their $'s) that it was altered aftermarket.

Secondly, and I'm not defending BGS, PSA, etc. - I'm just stating the fact - they are grading the card AS IS, how it looks in their hands. Cards have natural variation in size from the factory, so as long as the card measurements are within that allowable tolerance, they have no idea how it got there - they are grading what they see. If a card is obviously trimmed, they will mark as altered and not grade. If it's a good trim job, it will be graded and given whatever grade they feel it is. End of story. They have no idea what the card looked like before, they just see what it is as sent to them to grade. It's up to us to do something about it, but the trend shows a handful of us will care, but most people only care about the grade # on the slab. It's changed how I collect, as track all cards I'm interested in (I collect serial 74, and 03/04 Exq) so I can avoid paying more than I want for a card based on it's history (i.e. there are a ton of cards that had fake patches put in then swapped again later)... Great work on this card, but based on what I've seen over the years only a handful of us actually care

[ThoseBackPages]

Beautiful Card!

[jasonm2121]

Originally Posted by Exquisite074

I have every public picture of that card and have it on my tracker as trimmed as well!




However, as sad as it sounds, I don't think people really care now, and definitely won't in the future! There are a bunch of reasons why I feel this way but I'll list 2 main ones...

I used to think that box breaks was a fad and would die down as true collectors wouldn't want someone else opening their cards for them (that's part of the fun) and most don't even open cards properly, protect immediately, etc... I was completely wrong. Even though I've never participated in a single break - it's gotten even bigger than ever! I was thinking about collectors, I ignored that most people collecting cards now are addicts... that forced prices up even with quality coming down. Even some true collectors started participating in breaks because, financially, that is one of their only options at higher prices ... yes there are many other reasons (some collectors are gamblers, it's fun, etc.) but I'm pointing out my main belief was completely wrong a decade ago - which tells me people are willing to change their behaviors and overlook things if it means getting the card they want, or making $, etc... This makes me feel that most people won't care if a card proven to be trimmed, they will accept the grades as stated (the only exception is people won't pay a premium on a known fake patch and card companies don't authenticate patches anyway). Similar to "trimmed" cards - cards cut from sheets used to sell for pennies on the dollar as novelty cards for your PC. Not anymore, now people are treating them as almost as good as the real insert and I've seen crazy prices paid for them, people just don't seem to care (as in voting with their $'s) that it was altered aftermarket.

Secondly, and I'm not defending BGS, PSA, etc. - I'm just stating the fact - they are grading the card AS IS, how it looks in their hands. Cards have natural variation in size from the factory, so as long as the card measurements are within that allowable tolerance, they have no idea how it got there - they are grading what they see. If a card is obviously trimmed, they will mark as altered and not grade. If it's a good trim job, it will be graded and given whatever grade they feel it is. End of story. They have no idea what the card looked like before, they just see what it is as sent to them to grade. It's up to us to do something about it, but the trend shows a handful of us will care, but most people only care about the grade # on the slab. It's changed how I collect, as track all cards I'm interested in (I collect serial 74, and 03/04 Exq) so I can avoid paying more than I want for a card based on it's history (i.e. there are a ton of cards that had fake patches put in then swapped again later)... Great work on this card, but based on what I've seen over the years only a handful of us actually care

I agree with you on most of this. In the end, it will not matter, it will just be known but not something the majority worry too much about. Once the cards are slabbed that is what they are.

[superdan49]

There will be no accountability until one of these trimmers or TPG executives is charged with a crime. Until then it's Groundhog Day with these threads.

And more nice work here exposing this stuff by 312.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Because PWCC doesn't care if the card is or isn't actually trimmed. They simply believe that this procedure they've worked out with the grading companies absolves them of legal responsibility for selling altered cards.

Bingo.

[corndog]

Beckett doubling down on their own incompetence.
Taking lessons from PSA?

[mjohnatgt]

https://www.sportscardtalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=149
Well, auburn and Peter Spaith are now discussing it over there. Hopefully legal counsel will chime in or clarify the PWCC position on this expansion of fraud.

[smalltown]

Originally Posted by auburn35

What a joke. Close down that Lebron altered thread and then PWCC ends up with another one of the identified cards and is attempting to sell without disclosure, again with the help of Beckett.

Curious if this is BNC selling through PWCC or if the card was sold and the new buyer is trying to pass it off as good.

100% all the BS about I’d never sell it. People defending him saying he wouldn’t and if he did he’s a “good guy” and would disclose that it was altered.

[patchgenie]

Originally Posted by corndog

Beckett doubling down on their own incompetence.
Taking lessons from PSA?

business as usual for beckett too

[ronaldkosh]

I think part of the reason this isn't a bigger deal wrt prices is that these trimmed cards still have tremendous eye appeal. It's shady as hell and I hate the practice. But we're talking about a few hundredths of an inch. No one can spot that with the naked eye.

It's not as immediately obvious as a fake logo patch, or the greening on some 90s cards, and so you can see why a lot of buyers overlook this stuff or are oblivious to it.

[regularp]

Will this thread get locked like that bozo with the other LeBron had his lawyers do?

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by ronaldkosh

so you can see why a lot of buyers overlook this stuff or are oblivious to it.

Put it in a Blue BGS Altered label and see what it sells for, to see if it really matters! ;-)

[Card Love]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

If you are buying high end cards without checking the BO forums - you have way too much money.

Sad thing is, someone will eventually buy it.

Unfortunately not enough people know about BO forums.