Trimmed PSA 4.5 1948 Leaf Jackie on eBay and MySlabs- Compliments of the PWCC Racket

[3124508 on COMC]

Just the weekly thread for an altered 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson. This one was sold raw by bakersfield.cards on January 31, 2016 for $1,000. The next sale I can find is as a trimmed PSA 4.5 sold by PWCC for $4,000 on September 28, 2017. I do not believe the card exchanged hands between these dates. The card most recently publicly sold for $17,500 in July. As seen below, the left edge has been significantly hacked by the PWCC trimming machine. Buyer beware.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1554404

Current listings:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233664044026
https://myslabs.com/slab/view/55044/



(Ignore the yellow noise in the gif- not sure why that's there.)

[pspa123]

I let the seller know.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by pspa123

I let the seller know.

Thanks. I already let the MySlabs guy know.

[TarjetasBéisbol]

Sad to see such an iconic card like that trimmed.

[CaptSpaulding]

There is so much of this second hand trash floating around in the market innocently being passed from collector to collector.

Zero accountability in the hobby.

[TarjetasBéisbol]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

There is so much of this second hand trash floating around in the market innocently being passed from collector to collector.

Zero accountability in the hobby.

That’s what I was thinking but you know the trimmers are laughing as they see cards they trimmed go up in value. Sure they don’t care and I bet they are glad to be done with that card and are looking for other great cards to trim and flip.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by TarjetasBéisbol

That’s what I was thinking but you know the trimmers are laughing as they see cards they trimmed go up in value. Sure they don’t care and I bet they are glad to be done with that card and are looking for other great cards to trim and flip.

They are commodities once slabbed and a majority of the buyers really do not care about what is going on with the card itself especially in a market where prices are on the rise.

[pip]

How did the trimming even improve the appearance of the Jackie Robinson? It's as if it has become a game for the PWCC card molesters. They know PSA will grade whatever they submit so they chop everything, whether it appears to improve the technical grade or not. PSA, at any point, could easily put a stop to all the 1948 Leaf baseball and football cards being trimmed by simply using a ruler.

Huge problem. Easy solution. Nothing more than lack of will.

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by pip

How did the trimming even improve the appearance of the Jackie Robinson? It's as if it has become a game for the PWCC card molesters. They know PSA will grade whatever they submit so they chop everything, whether it appears to improve the technical grade or not. PSA, at any point, could easily put a stop to all the 1948 Leaf baseball and football cards being trimmed by simply using a ruler.

Huge problem. Easy solution. Nothing more than lack of will.

It is all about money. The massive amount of unexposed vintage altered cards in slabs I bet would bury TPG's with guarantees at this point, wipe half the population (or more) of high-end off the records, cost collectors 100+ million (anyone care to give their estimate?), and more...

[superdan49]

Original PWCC description said the card was "deserving of attention."

Wish granted.

[pspa123]

Didn't someone with a significant platform once (more than once, actually) insist Brent was good for the hobby?

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

It is all about money. The massive amount of unexposed vintage altered cards in slabs I bet would bury TPG's with guarantees at this point, wipe half the population (or more) of high-end off the records, cost collectors 100+ million (anyone care to give their estimate?), and more...

Could not agree more. I would estimate there are far more altered cards (both by population and of course by value) in slabs than ones which have been been messed with. Again there seems to be a level of disinterest by the collector and a huge appetite for the slab regardless of how the card got there or who got it there.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

There is so much of this second hand trash floating around in the market innocently being passed from collector to collector.

Zero accountability in the hobby.

That's the problem. Once a bad actor sells an altered card into the market, inevitably and foreseeably it's going to be sold and resold and someone is going to end up holding the hot potato if it gets outed. And since rising prices are the norm on much of this stuff, and indeed PWCC has devoted itself to trying to increase prices, that person inevitably and foreseeably will have paid more and perhaps much more than the original buyer.

And everyone else is going to run and hide. PSA (see Steve Sloan famous missive) is going to say deal with your seller. PWCC if it makes an offer at all likely is not going to offer more than its original sales price, which in a sharply rising market is not going to come close to compensating the owner. The direct seller may say, understandably, it's not my fault, I had no idea and I relied on the slab.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by pspa123

That's the problem. Once a bad actor sells an altered card into the market, inevitably and foreseeably it's going to be sold and resold and someone is going to end up holding the hot potato if it gets outed. And since rising prices are the norm on much of this stuff, and indeed PWCC has devoted itself to trying to increase prices, that person inevitably and foreseeably will have paid more and perhaps much more than the original buyer.

And everyone else is going to run and hide. PSA (see Steve Sloan famous missive) is going to say deal with your seller. PWCC if it makes an offer at all likely is not going to offer more than its original sales price, which in a sharply rising market is not going to come close to compensating the owner. The direct seller may say, understandably, it's not my fault, I had no idea and I relied on the slab.

Well in a perfect world this is why PSA has that iron clad guarantee and upon being presented with this card should compensate the owner at the price they paid. This card has changed hands many times since being sold by PWCC so I understand the dilemma you point out.

Not sure what is fair but what should the present owner of a card like this do? Are they supposed to be the one to take the hit for relying on PSA's error?

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

Well in a perfect world this is why PSA has that iron clad guarantee and upon being presented with this card should compensate the owner at the price they paid. This card has changed hands many times since being sold by PWCC so I understand the dilemma you point out.

Not sure what is fair but what should the present owner of a card like this do? Are they supposed to be the one to take the hit for relying on PSA's error?

If I were King Solomon I would divide responsibility between PSA for slabbing it and PWCC for (I assume) knowingly putting it into the marketplace.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by pspa123

If I were King Solomon I would divide responsibility between PSA for slabbing it and PWCC for (I assume) knowingly putting it into the marketplace.

I feel recourse for situations like this are with the grading service. At the end of the day they are the one's whose name is on the product and for which there is a guarantee. That a card doctor got it past them is on them. They should do their job much better. That Brent knew or should have known the card he was selling was bad to me is not realistically relevant.

PSA is not buying back the card unless the owner gets a lawyer. Don't think the present owner has any recourse with ebay or paypal on a return because he bought a PSA 4.5 Roby and that is what he got and exchanged feedback on. PSA is the industry leader on grading and they assert, at this point, the card is a 4.5, so claiming it is altered and not as described is not going to trigger eBay or paypal to refund.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

There is so much of this second hand trash floating around in the market innocently being passed from collector to collector.

Zero accountability in the hobby.

It’s what happens when the hobby is overrun with flippers and investors and collectors don’t say anything.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

I feel recourse for situations like this are with the grading service. At the end of the day they are the one's whose name is on the product and for which there is a guarantee. That a card doctor got it past them is on them. They should do their job much better. That Brent knew or should have known the card he was selling was bad to me is not realistically relevant.

PSA is not buying back the card unless the owner gets a lawyer. Don't think the present owner has any recourse with ebay or paypal on a return because he bought a PSA 4.5 Roby and that is what he got and exchanged feedback on. PSA is the industry leader on grading and they assert, at this point, the card is a 4.5, so claiming it is altered and not as described is not going to trigger eBay or paypal to refund.

I completely agree PSA is responsible. I disagree that Brent isn't. If he weren't he wouldn't be the target of a criminal investigation. He committed fraud independent of whether PSA screwed up, looked the other way, did whatever they did. No hiding behind the slab for him. And he defrauded not just the immediate buyer, but the marketplace. Multiple parties at fault here. A true cluster.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by pspa123

I completely agree PSA is responsible. I disagree that Brent isn't. If he weren't he wouldn't be the target of a criminal investigation. He committed fraud independent of whether PSA screwed up, looked the other way, did whatever they did. And he defrauded not just the immediate buyer, but the marketplace. Multiple parties at fault here. A true cluster.

Sounds like collectors are between a rock and a hard place.

[pip]

Originally Posted by pspa123

I completely agree PSA is responsible. I disagree that Brent isn't. If he weren't he wouldn't be the target of a criminal investigation. He committed fraud independent of whether PSA screwed up, looked the other way, did whatever they did. No hiding behind the slab for him. And he defrauded not just the immediate buyer, but the marketplace. Multiple parties at fault here. A true cluster.

Another relevant question is just how many cards did Brent personally have altered and then turn around and sell in his own auctions....besides the 1936 World Wide Dimaggio that he already admitted to?

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

Sounds like collectors are between a rock and a hard place.

Both the rock and the hard place, in this case, should contribute to make the wronged person whole. But the odds of that happening are probably not so good.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by pip

Another relevant question is just how many cards did Brent personally have altered and then turn around and sell in his own auctions....besides the 1936 World Wide Dimaggio that he already admitted to?

It depends on which definition of altered you use, the one that has been the hobby consensus or near consensus forever, or the self-serving Brent one.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

Sounds like collectors are between a rock and a hard place.

It isn’t a problem for we collectors who don’t pay extra for a slab and label.

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by pip

Another relevant question is just how many cards did Brent personally have altered and then turn around and sell in his own auctions....besides the 1936 World Wide Dimaggio that he already admitted to?

Hopefully the FBI is digging into this as we speak. It is still an open case.

My hope is that some day, we have the answer to that very pertinent question.

[Scientist78]

once a card is confirmed trimmed, does it lose a lot of value?