REA Selling Trimmed SGC 8 & Altered PSA 3 Copies of 1933 Sport Kings Babe Ruth #2

3124508 on COMC · 11-20-2020, 07:41 PM

First, REA is selling a trimmed SGC 8 copy Babe Ruth's 1933 Sport Kings card that was last sold untrimmed as an SGC 5.5 on 3/6/2012 by Legendary for $6,573.00. It was then sold as a trimmed SGC 8 on 8/1/2012 by Heritage for $21,150.00. It was resold in the same slab by REA on 4/29/2016 for $21,600 and is now up for sale again in their current auction. Buyer beware.

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=71267
https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...-ruth-sgc-nmmt
https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515

Second is a less egregious but also altered version of the same card up from REA that is graded PSA 3 with a PWCC sticker affixed. It's the typical Brent/Moser alteration with cleaning to the back and rounded corners. Due to the cleaning process, one stain on the back of the card has been removed and another stain has been added (see .gif below). I believe the stain that has appeared is likely a result of trying to remove or minimize the "subtle bump to the left edge" that PWCC notes that the card has. The top left corner is the prime culprit of corner rounding, however all of the corners have been molested to various degrees. Buyer beware. The card was previously an SGC 4 and was last sold unaltered by REA.

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=72014
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1740014
https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...ings-babe-ruth
https://cdn.vintagecardprices.com/me...4/17414946.JPG
https://cdn.vintagecardprices.com/me...7414946_01.JPG

As seen below, one stain has been removed and another has been added, likely from a combination of cleaning/pressing.

CaptSpaulding · 11-20-2020, 08:14 PM

Maybe they can be re-evaluated like the cards in Heritage?

Nice job once again. Will be interested to see how these two play out.

Mentioned this before but there are just so many bad cards out there, less the very small percentage that Brent and others are presently buying back and examples like these are going to present themselves with innocent sellers.

I know MoreToppsPlease does not see this as a problem with third party grading but I sure do.

MoreToppsPlease · 11-20-2020, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

Maybe they can be re-evaluated like the cards in Heritage?

Nice job once again. Will be interested to see how these two play out.

Mentioned this before but there are just so many bad cards out there, less the very small percentage that Brent and others are presently buying back and examples like these are going to present themselves with innocent sellers.

I know MoreToppsPlease does not see this as a problem with third party grading but I sure do.

It’s only a problem for people who continue to think TPGs should still play an oversized role in the hobby.

But any way one looks at it, TPGs are overvalued, particularly by flippers. This thread is only further proof of that...not that there wasn’t more than enough proof already.

TPG’s ill-deserved reputation simply far exceeds their skills and ability to produce an honest service.

SaveMeTheGum · 11-20-2020, 08:58 PM

Ouch. Say it ain't so SGC....

CaptSpaulding · 11-20-2020, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

It’s only a problem for people who continue to think TPGs should still play an oversized role in the hobby.

No it is actually a problem for anyone who buys graded material which you apparently cannot afford to do. I would not classify expecting TPGs to do their job accurately as an oversized role. That is a pretty warped point of view you have.

MoreToppsPlease · 11-21-2020, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

No it is actually a problem for anyone who buys graded material which you apparently cannot afford to do. I would not classify expecting TPGs to do their job accurately as an oversized role. That is a pretty warped point of view you have.

LOL

What does oversized mean to you? Apparently you think TPGs could never have an oversized role. Ironically that attitude is exactly why people alter cards before getting them slabbed. It leads people to look the other way in the face of TPG corruption.

Besides, what do personal attacks do here? Typically anyone who talks about someone else not being able to afford something in this context have the least net worth of anyone.

CaptSpaulding · 11-21-2020, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

What does oversized mean to you?

That was the word you used. I was simply qualifying it.

Quote:

Apparently you think TPGs could never have an oversized role. Ironically that attitude is exactly why people alter cards before getting them slabbed. It leads people to look the other way in the face of TPG corruption.

Apparently you cannot read what I wrote. Once again I clearly defined what I felt we should expect from a TPG--to do their job accurately. It is the same thing we should expect from anyone who has a job. At issue is the fact they cannot seem to be able to do that. You don't buy graded material so you do not see their role as having any importance.

Quote:

Besides, what do personal attacks do here? Typically anyone who talks about someone else not being able to afford something in this context have the least net worth of anyone.

There is nothing you like about grading. You seem to resent that graded cards are worth more than ungraded ones. That chip on your shoulder comes through in all of your posts.

Bruins1993 · 11-21-2020, 05:11 AM

My first question: was/is that Ruth an SGC owner and/or employee card?

Reason I am asking, per SGC's ToS:
"3. Customer acknowledges and agrees that SGC’s owners and employees shall be permitted to submit items for grading and/or authentication without limitation. Furthermore, SGC’s owners and employees may buy, sell, and trade SGC authenticated or graded items without limitation."
https://gosgc.com/terms

corndog · 11-21-2020, 05:51 AM

Great eyes 312!

Excellent work!

pspa123 · 11-21-2020, 03:51 PM

Their response will be interesting.

mfw13 · 11-21-2020, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

Their response will be interesting.

Yep.

Because my impression has always been that they are one of the few reputable auction houses remaining...

Bruins1993 · 11-21-2020, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

Their response will be interesting.

How about SGC's response? Wait, I can't recall SGC commenting on the SGC graded Bobby Hull at HA, or other SGC graded cards posted in the PWCC thread...

Clark · 11-21-2020, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

How about SGC's response? Wait, I can't recall SGC commenting on the SGC graded Bobby Hull at HA, or other SGC graded cards posted in the PWCC thread...

Maybe they should respond to anonymous people who don't own the card? pip, pink pussycat or cking?

pspa123 · 11-21-2020, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

How about SGC's response? Wait, I can't recall SGC commenting on the SGC graded Bobby Hull at HA, or other SGC graded cards posted in the PWCC thread...

I would like to know who bought the card out of Legendary, that would be revealing.

cking · 11-21-2020, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark

Maybe they should respond to anonymous people who don't own the card? pip, pink pussycat or cking?

This is my first post in this thread..not sure why you are talking about me

Clark · 11-21-2020, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cking

This is my first post in this thread..not sure why you are talking about me

Your username was an example, not targeting you.

My point is that the collectors concerned with grading... needs a face.

pip · 11-21-2020, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark

Your username was an example, not targeting you.

My point is that the collectors concerned with grading... needs a face.

I once shot an elephant... in my pajamas.

pip · 11-21-2020, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

I would like to know who bought the card out of Legendary, that would be revealing.

Legendary winner + Heritage consignor. Probably the same person.

pip · 11-21-2020, 11:15 PM

SGC is becoming just as good as PSA at grading some of the smallest cards on the planet. I guess that's what happens when graders become so proficient that they no longer need a ruler.

Three easy steps to ending this card-altering stupidity:
1. Put the measurement of each card on the label.
2. TPGs: reject invoices from known card doctors and others who submit a high percentage of altered cards.
3. AHs: reject consignments from known card doctors.

rats60 · 11-21-2020, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark

Maybe they should respond to anonymous people who don't own the card? pip, pink pussycat or cking?

They should respond to the hobby in general, who are potential customers and see they can't detect trimmed cards. Why should people buy their cards if they can't do better than PSA? Why should people use them to grade if they can't do better than PSA? Not long ago they shut down their autographic authentication because they graded a bunch of fakes. This isn't a good look for them.

CaptSpaulding · 11-22-2020, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

I would like to know who bought the card out of Legendary, that would be revealing.

I have a pretty good idea who it was.

Bruins1993 · 11-22-2020, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

Three easy steps to ending this card-altering stupidity:
1. Put the measurement of each card on the label.
2. TPGs: reject invoices from known card doctors and others who submit a high percentage of altered cards.
3. AHs: reject consignments from known card doctors.

Have card doctors and dealers/consigners of known altered cards been a tremendous revenue generator for PSA, SGC, and AH's up to this point?

Clark · 11-22-2020, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

They should respond to the hobby in general, who are potential customers and see they can't detect trimmed cards. Why should people buy their cards if they can't do better than PSA? Why should people use them to grade if they can't do better than PSA? Not long ago they shut down their autographic authentication because they graded a bunch of fakes. This isn't a good look for them.

SGC, PSA, Beckett, it doesn't matter. They all have difficulty identifying micro trimming.

The process is based on throughput and the doctors exploit it. If there is "no evidence" of trimming the card goes through.

pspa123 · 11-22-2020, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

I have a pretty good idea who it was.

One can certainly make an educated guess, agreed. But it would be nice to have verification.

pspa123 · 11-22-2020, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

SGC is becoming just as good as PSA at grading some of the smallest cards on the planet. I guess that's what happens when graders become so proficient that they no longer need a ruler.

Three easy steps to ending this card-altering stupidity:
1. Put the measurement of each card on the label.
2. TPGs: reject invoices from known card doctors and others who submit a high percentage of altered cards.
3. AHs: reject consignments from known card doctors.

But then all the money dries up.

11-20-2020, 07:41 PM	#1
3124508 on COMC BODA Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9,401	REA Selling Trimmed SGC 8 & Altered PSA 3 Copies of 1933 Sport Kings Babe Ruth #2 First, REA is selling a trimmed SGC 8 copy Babe Ruth's 1933 Sport Kings card that was last sold untrimmed as an SGC 5.5 on 3/6/2012 by Legendary for $6,573.00. It was then sold as a trimmed SGC 8 on 8/1/2012 by Heritage for $21,150.00. It was resold in the same slab by REA on 4/29/2016 for $21,600 and is now up for sale again in their current auction. Buyer beware. https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=71267 https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...-ruth-sgc-nmmt https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515 Second is a less egregious but also altered version of the same card up from REA that is graded PSA 3 with a PWCC sticker affixed. It's the typical Brent/Moser alteration with cleaning to the back and rounded corners. Due to the cleaning process, one stain on the back of the card has been removed and another stain has been added (see .gif below). I believe the stain that has appeared is likely a result of trying to remove or minimize the "subtle bump to the left edge" that PWCC notes that the card has. The top left corner is the prime culprit of corner rounding, however all of the corners have been molested to various degrees. Buyer beware. The card was previously an SGC 4 and was last sold unaltered by REA. https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=72014 https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1740014 https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...ings-babe-ruth https://cdn.vintagecardprices.com/me...4/17414946.JPG https://cdn.vintagecardprices.com/me...7414946_01.JPG As seen below, one stain has been removed and another has been added, likely from a combination of cleaning/pressing. __________________ 3124508@protonmail.com The Short Guide to the PWCC Card Trimming & Alteration Fraud

11-20-2020, 08:58 PM	#4
SaveMeTheGum Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: NH --> CA --> SC Posts: 16,700 Cardboard_Dynamite CardboardDynamite	Ouch. Say it ain't so SGC.... __________________ Pay fast. Ship fast. Deal with people honestly. IG: CardboardDynamite

11-21-2020, 05:11 AM	#8
Bruins1993 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Stuck inside of Mobile Posts: 1,291	My first question: was/is that Ruth an SGC owner and/or employee card? Reason I am asking, per SGC's ToS: "3. Customer acknowledges and agrees that SGC’s owners and employees shall be permitted to submit items for grading and/or authentication without limitation. Furthermore, SGC’s owners and employees may buy, sell, and trade SGC authenticated or graded items without limitation." https://gosgc.com/terms __________________ #nevergetcheated Riiiiiiiiight

11-21-2020, 05:51 AM	#9
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,191	Great eyes 312! Excellent work! __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

11-21-2020, 03:51 PM	#10
pspa123 Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 3,743	Their response will be interesting. __________________ "We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur, or sharpen it to crystal clarity." Opening narration, The Outer Limits.

11-20-2020, 08:14 PM	#2
CaptSpaulding Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: So Cal Posts: 1,458	Maybe they can be re-evaluated like the cards in Heritage? Nice job once again. Will be interested to see how these two play out. Mentioned this before but there are just so many bad cards out there, less the very small percentage that Brent and others are presently buying back and examples like these are going to present themselves with innocent sellers. I know MoreToppsPlease does not see this as a problem with third party grading but I sure do.

11-21-2020, 11:15 PM	#19
pip Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: French underground Posts: 4,009	SGC is becoming just as good as PSA at grading some of the smallest cards on the planet. I guess that's what happens when graders become so proficient that they no longer need a ruler. Three easy steps to ending this card-altering stupidity: 1. Put the measurement of each card on the label. 2. TPGs: reject invoices from known card doctors and others who submit a high percentage of altered cards. 3. AHs: reject consignments from known card doctors.