Why are Muhammad Ali auto cards undervalued compared to the other greats (GOATs) ?

[Shan95]

Hi all,

Is referred to above, why aren’t Ali autos going for as much as Tiger, Jordan or Lebron?

The current prices for Ali Autos form Sportkings or Leaf go for about $400-$800 and the Upper Deck ones go for a bit more than a grand.

Is there a reason for his prices to be lower than the rest of the greats? Or was it because he signed tons?


Appreciate any opinions, thank guys


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[jubei777]

the UD ones were signed when his autograph was more legible as well from a more expensive product. the Leaf autos were less legible and had a ton of cuts from questionable sources.

[Shan95]

Originally Posted by jubei777

the UD ones were signed when his autograph was more legible as well from a more expensive product. the Leaf autos were less legible and had a ton of cuts from questionable sources.

But for the lead autos, there were quite a few that were on card autos, that would be decent right?


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[kingofsnake]

I do agree that, even at a bit more than a grand, the Upper Deck Ali autos are a good buy.

The Leaf and Sport Kings, to me, are garbage.

[Shan95]

Originally Posted by kingofsnake

I do agree that, even at a bit more than a grand, the Upper Deck Ali autos are a good buy.

The Leaf and Sport Kings, to me, are garbage.

Why are the Leaf and sports kings autos garbage?


Just trying to understand for my knowledge


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[kingofsnake]

Originally Posted by Shan95

Why are the Leaf and sports kings autos garbage?


Just trying to understand for my knowledge


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Shan95, I don't consider them legitimate card companies. No licenses, shady business practices, poor designs, etc...

[TBT]

That's how I see it as well. The Upper Deck Ali cards are just so much nicer and more credible that it's likely worth spending a bit more for them.

I still have a sealed set of the 2000 Ali UD Master Collection. Keep debating whether it's time to open it and grade whatever's inside, or just keep it sealed forever.

Originally Posted by kingofsnake

Shan95, I don't consider them legitimate card companies. No licenses, shady business practices, poor designs, etc...

[nabzy28]

Was thinking the same thing just yesterday. Scrolling through one of my eBay searches pulled up that Ali Master Collection dual Fight worn Trunks/Robe Autograph /100 and I think it's a PSA 10... listed at 3500. *Full disclosure, I've got a copy of that card in my PC, ungraded.* Now, I really couldn't help but consider how the hell all these people are showing up in this hobby over the last year, dropping 5 and 6 figures on shiny stuff... and that's sitting there for 3500. If that was a Jordan, we'd be looking at anything from 100k-250k, right??

[Shan95]

This is his Sportkings auto from 2009 (Not my card), Ali did sign this right?

I mean I’ve seen some Pelé Sportkings sell just over $1,000 too.


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[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by Shan95

This is his Sportkings auto from 2009 (Not my card), Ali did sign this right?

I mean I’ve seen some Pelé Sportkings sell just over $1,000 too.


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Yes, Ali signed that card.

Sportkings had a contract with Ali to make those cards. The signing was witnessed in person. They are rare and legit.

There are two tiers, a Gold and a Silver like the one you pictured above.

Sportkings contracted with Ali to make base cards as well, and they sell decently too.

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by nabzy28

Was thinking the same thing just yesterday. Scrolling through one of my eBay searches pulled up that Ali Master Collection dual Fight worn Trunks/Robe Autograph /100 and I think it's a PSA 10... listed at 3500. *Full disclosure, I've got a copy of that card in my PC, ungraded.* Now, I really couldn't help but consider how the hell all these people are showing up in this hobby over the last year, dropping 5 and 6 figures on shiny stuff... and that's sitting there for 3500. If that was a Jordan, we'd be looking at anything from 100k-250k, right??

Give it time.

[Tonic3]

Originally Posted by TBT

That's how I see it as well. The Upper Deck Ali cards are just so much nicer and more credible that it's likely worth spending a bit more for them.

I still have a sealed set of the 2000 Ali UD Master Collection. Keep debating whether it's time to open it and grade whatever's inside, or just keep it sealed forever.

I have a set as well (although not sealed) and I think these sets will do very well over time. Some of the nicest auto's he ever did for a company and only 250 sets.

As for keeping your set sealed, I don't really see a reason to keep it sealed. The contents are pretty much known except for the mystery pack and I'd rather buy a set from someone where I know the mystery card is an additional auto and not a 1/1 base card. You could almost argue that opening and confirming the mystery pack is an auto is the smartest thing to do to get the maximum value for the set. But that's just one persons opinion

[TBT]

Thanks, great perspective. I agree with you. My hesitation has been worries about card condition. Did you find that your cards had corner damage at all when you opened yours up?

Originally Posted by Tonic3

I have a set as well (although not sealed) and I think these sets will do very well over time. Some of the nicest auto's he ever did for a company and only 250 sets.

As for keeping your set sealed, I don't really see a reason to keep it sealed. The contents are pretty much known except for the mystery pack and I'd rather buy a set from someone where I know the mystery card is an additional auto and not a 1/1 base card. You could almost argue that opening and confirming the mystery pack is an auto is the smartest thing to do to get the maximum value for the set. But that's just one persons opinion

[Shan95]

Hey guys,

I took the advice from everyone above and went for the 1992 Pro Line Muhammad Ali Auto BGS 9/10 Auto

It’s one of his earliest if I’m not mistaken and it’s one of the biggest cards in my collection! I hear there are tons of fakes so I went for the graded one to be safe.

Unfortunately the upper deck ones are way above my budget, did I do okay?







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[nabzy28]

Originally Posted by TBT

Thanks, great perspective. I agree with you. My hesitation has been worries about card condition. Did you find that your cards had corner damage at all when you opened yours up?

Opened a few of these, as did some other members here, when they went on sale years ago. You can probably still find some of the breaks posted. All cards are individually cased in those snap tite holders that were popular back then. The autos seemed to be in good shape, most looked like they'd grade out at a 9, at least. The memorabilia or mem/auto cards were a bit tougher, from my experience. Tended to have soft corner(s), as those type cases were not conducive to maintaining sharp corners.

Now, due to the scarcity of the autos from this, I don't think there's any reason at all to worry about the condition of the cards from this if you open. I mean, it's going to be NM+/Mint, at worst, and the rarity itself is where the value is derived from. You don't have to worry about a bunch hitting the market any time soon, etc.

[TBT]

Good to know. Maybe I'll take it for a rip this weekend. Might as well enjoy it.

Originally Posted by nabzy28

Opened a few of these, as did some other members here, when they went on sale years ago. You can probably still find some of the breaks posted. All cards are individually cased in those snap tite holders that were popular back then. The autos seemed to be in good shape, most looked like they'd grade out at a 9, at least. The memorabilia or mem/auto cards were a bit tougher, from my experience. Tended to have soft corner(s), as those type cases were not conducive to maintaining sharp corners.

Now, due to the scarcity of the autos from this, I don't think there's any reason at all to worry about the condition of the cards from this if you open. I mean, it's going to be NM+/Mint, at worst, and the rarity itself is where the value is derived from. You don't have to worry about a bunch hitting the market any time soon, etc.

[kingofsnake]

Originally Posted by TBT

Good to know. Maybe I'll take it for a rip this weekend. Might as well enjoy it.

Please let us know how it goes. Good luck.

[TBT]

Will do. Thanks!

Originally Posted by kingofsnake

Please let us know how it goes. Good luck.

[Shan95]

It’ll always puzzle me how Ali cards are not on the level of Jordan/Mantle/Lebron


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[yoyosh]

I’d love to pick up an Upper Deck master collection, but they’re price 3x of a Leaf auto
I know Leaf isn’t anyone’s fav brand but...that’s a huge discrepancy!

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by Shan95

It’ll always puzzle me how Ali cards are not on the level of Jordan/Mantle/Lebron


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Because it's boxing.

[MavsRChamps]

Originally Posted by TBT

That's how I see it as well. The Upper Deck Ali cards are just so much nicer and more credible that it's likely worth spending a bit more for them.

I still have a sealed set of the 2000 Ali UD Master Collection. Keep debating whether it's time to open it and grade whatever's inside, or just keep it sealed forever.

I have a sealed set too, bought it within the past year. Gonna hold forever. I’m a fan of Ali, but even for investing purposes, I think it has potential to really explode.

And on the Leaf & Sportskings autos - the on card ones are 100% legit, just go for lower because they don’t have Upper Deck’s popularity and a little less legible on average.

Here's my general thoughts: I think Ali Autos are incredibly undervalued given the lack of on-card autos he has. I believe it is just 2000 Upper Deck Autos (470 Total), 2012 Leaf Ali The Greatest (750 total), other Random Leaf Autos (limited) Sports Kings (unsure print run), and the Pro Line / Classic early 90's Autos. Compared to other greats, that is a very low amount. I see the argument of "oh it's boxing, so that's why his values are below the others" and that's partly the reason but I believe that will change going forward. As more people get into the hobby the next 5-10 years I think there will be more emphasis on the athlete/player and not the sport, especially for the greats. There's also been more of an emphasis lately on who athletes are "off the field" and "as people" - as opposed to just on the field relevance, and Ali is pretty much the gold standard when it comes to greatness in this respect. In terms of general popularity Ali is more "popular"/recognizable in my opinion than guys like Mickey Mantle, Mike Trout and surely than Tiger Woods, especially as the demographics change. Where I live in Philadelphia, you ask 100 random people on the street to guess "card values" of random all-time greats & you name off 10 Greats ... Ali would probably top the list. I'd say only the NBA legends like Jordan/Lebron may rank above him & have a leg up on him values-wise LONG-TERM due to global & sport popularity, but again due to Ali's scarcity of his on-card autos, I could easily see them match Jordan levels or exceed them - say 10 or 20 years from now. I believe it can easily happen organically through changing hobby interests, and will most likely be accelerated if high-profile celebrities/influencers buy them too.

Full disclosure - I have a few 2012 Leaf on-card autos and the 2000 Master's collection set to be transparent, so I may be biased. But I picked all these up recently partly due to my thoughts above. I don't have an agenda & not looking to pump up anything, as I'm not looking to sell anything at least the next 20 years. Just sharing my genuine thoughts.

Summary: Given the explosion of other all-timers as mentioned + his legendary status as an athlete & social icon, plus the scarcity of his top cards relative to other greats, its only a matter of time before Ali’s rare cards go way up in my opinion.

[nabzy28]

Was trying to look back through orders over the years and, it seems, I guess I got the Master Collection sets from that other place, and they don't show pricing on the order history. I think they were 800 or 900? Someone else may remember, but I know they were under $1k, which was well below the 1200-1300+ they were usually listed at. I actually sort of forgot that I picked up one of the Ali Leaf auto/boxes just about 6 months ago from here, for precisely the reason this thread was started. I remember just looking through various stuff on the site, not having anything in mind, and there were 2 boxes of the Leaf Muhammad Ali box sets there. No idea why or how, as they came out so long ago. Maybe they bought them off someone in a larger purchase? Either way, I recall looking at them and thinking on it for probably 10 minutes, trying to figure out why I wouldn't buy a guaranteed Ali on-card autograph for $500. I am very glad I did and then decided to keep it to add with my other, UD auto. The $25 off coupon made it even better, as all I had to do was add a pack of toploaders to put my order barely over $500 and then get it down to $480. Little things, right? LOL!

I can only throw my opinion in on them and, while I don't like the Sportkings ones, it does not negate the fact that they had to acquire the rights/license to use Ali's image, as did Leaf, so nothing is missing in that aspect. There's a laundry list of shady things all card companies have done, so that's out the window. That leaves personal preference. From that aspect, I like the Leaf on-card autos. Very well done. High gloss finish with the silver accents around great images. UD also did well on images and had the benefit of getting the signatures from Ali nearly a decade earlier, so they do look better in most instances, sadly, due to his physical decline.

This was a good topic to bring back around.

[MavsRChamps]

Originally Posted by nabzy28

Was trying to look back through orders over the years and, it seems, I guess I got the Master Collection sets from that other place, and they don't show pricing on the order history. I think they were 800 or 900? Someone else may remember, but I know they were under $1k, which was well below the 1200-1300+ they were usually listed at. I actually sort of forgot that I picked up one of the Ali Leaf auto/boxes just about 6 months ago from here, for precisely the reason this thread was started. I remember just looking through various stuff on the site, not having anything in mind, and there were 2 boxes of the Leaf Muhammad Ali box sets there. No idea why or how, as they came out so long ago. Maybe they bought them off someone in a larger purchase? Either way, I recall looking at them and thinking on it for probably 10 minutes, trying to figure out why I wouldn't buy a guaranteed Ali on-card autograph for $500. I am very glad I did and then decided to keep it to add with my other, UD auto. The $25 off coupon made it even better, as all I had to do was add a pack of toploaders to put my order barely over $500 and then get it down to $480. Little things, right? LOL!

I can only throw my opinion in on them and, while I don't like the Sportkings ones, it does not negate the fact that they had to acquire the rights/license to use Ali's image, as did Leaf, so nothing is missing in that aspect. There's a laundry list of shady things all card companies have done, so that's out the window. That leaves personal preference. From that aspect, I like the Leaf on-card autos. Very well done. High gloss finish with the silver accents around great images. UD also did well on images and had the benefit of getting the signatures from Ali nearly a decade earlier, so they do look better in most instances, sadly, due to his physical decline.

This was a good topic to bring back around.

I did the same thing to a tee a few months ago - Bought the Ali Leaf Box, bought a magnetic holder to use the $25 off too. Such an easy & no-brainer purchase. Great minds think alike

[nabzy28]

This whole thing has intrigued me, as I love looking at market stuff like this. Just a quick look over eBay, I'm seeing less than 5 of the Upper Deck Ali autos of any kind, available for purchase. I'm seeing about 27 of the Leaf (on card) ones, with the VAST majority being the prismatic/refractor ones. Again, I'm only seeing 5 (!) of those are the ones from the 2012 release that are on the nice, high gloss stock with the silver foil, some have the embedded fight/training/event worn memorabilia like some of the Upper Deck Master Collection autos.

I am not including any of the Cuts, at all, just the on-card stuff that would tend to be more desirable by collectors. So, basically, all it would take is about 2 dozen people to decide they would like a Muhammad Ali on-card autograph. I completely understand that many may suddenly come up for sale if/when movement starts happening, but for all intents and purposes at this moment in time, there's almost NOTHING out there to be had with regard to on-card Ali autographs.