The real deal on shipping insurance

Luv4cards · 03-19-2021, 01:38 PM

So there's a lot of value in the basketball market and most transactions and grading are taking place across a distance. I just found out today that Fedex will not cover a "collectible" over $1k, even if I declare the value to be $20k and they accept it and it is graded/appraised by PSA to be valued at fair market value in the $20k range. I thought this was odd and it got me thinking...Is UPS like this? Does USPS registered mail work like this? Do companies let you claim or declare a high value only to see in the fine print that it does NOT cover collectibles beyond a certain limit? The Fedex lady told me that I would need an outside company or even my home owners insurance to cover a collectible being delivered. Also, does anyone actually have experience with a high end item that was lost/stolen/damaged during transit and won/lost an insurance claim because the item was in fact not covered because of its collectible nature?

Promethius88 · 03-19-2021, 02:10 PM

Not trying to be rude here, but there are dozens of posts related to this question already if you do a search.

ballhawkdawk · 03-19-2021, 02:25 PM

So you’re saying there’s a $1k built in insurance regardless of declared value?

Or

No matter what you specifically insure it for, they cap it at $1k if it’s a collectible?

Luv4cards · 03-19-2021, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promethius88

Not trying to be rude here, but there are dozens of posts related to this question already if you do a search.

I don't take it as rude, I respect your feedback. I've seen the dozen or so about this but I'm asking a different question. See, the ones that I read about say "yeah, it's covered, just state what's declared" or "yeah I just ship registered up to $50k and I've had no problems. I'm asking about the ones who who have had issues and what the end result was. For example, if I want to send to PSA registered mail USPS and the cards are ungraded, how the hell am I supposed to "prove" what the value was if they weren't graded?

Luv4cards · 03-19-2021, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

So you’re saying there’s a $1k built in insurance regardless of declared value?

Or

No matter what you specifically insure it for, they cap it at $1k if it’s a collectible?

The Fedex lady told me that no matter what you declare, you will only be able to recover $1k if it is a collectible, art, sports cards, etc. and then she went to her rule book which was fastened to her cpu screen and verified what she just told me. She then told me that she has a guy that ships art about every month and he has an outside insurance agency/company that insures his art during travel/shipping. He had a painting damaged while being shipped with Fedex and they cut him a check for $1k and the other insurance covered the rest. I am asking if UPS and USPS behave the same way...if they let you declare and claim what you think your cards are worth, only to hit you with a limit once its damaged or lost or stolen.

Ericc5Bears · 03-19-2021, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv4cards

I don't take it as rude, I respect your feedback. I've seen the dozen or so about this but I'm asking a different question. See, the ones that I read about say "yeah, it's covered, just state what's declared" or "yeah I just ship registered up to $50k and I've had no problems. I'm asking about the ones who who have had issues and what the end result was. For example, if I want to send to PSA registered mail USPS and the cards are ungraded, how the hell am I supposed to "prove" what the value was if they weren't graded?

Yup, this is a totally fair question that throughout all these threads I have yet to see a concrete answer to. There are so many people on here who blindly recommend to "ship all grading orders with insurance" but I have a feeling those people are in for a very rude awakening if they ever need to file a claim. I don't have personal experience but I'm guessing USPS/UPS/Fedex would instantly deny the claim and basically say "Not only can you not prove the true value of what you sent but you ALSO can't even prove that what you listed was actually in the package." I personally believe that postal insurance is a straight-up scam and you'll never win a claim unless you have direct proof of sale amount from ebay/paypal.

shrevecity · 03-19-2021, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

So you’re saying there’s a $1k built in insurance regardless of declared value?

Or

No matter what you specifically insure it for, they cap it at $1k if it’s a collectible?

Fed Ex has a 1000 dollar cap on what they consider premium collectibles. Which includes sportscards.

Promethius88 · 03-19-2021, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv4cards

I don't take it as rude, I respect your feedback. I've seen the dozen or so about this but I'm asking a different question. See, the ones that I read about say "yeah, it's covered, just state what's declared" or "yeah I just ship registered up to $50k and I've had no problems. I'm asking about the ones who who have had issues and what the end result was. For example, if I want to send to PSA registered mail USPS and the cards are ungraded, how the hell am I supposed to "prove" what the value was if they weren't graded?

Fair enough.

Only speaking from my personal experience here. Sent an order to PSA a couple years back and insured it for $3-4k. It got lost in transit. They denied the claim because I was unable to provide receipts for each and every card.
Now USPS will find every angle to deny a claim but if you have receipts for the item, ie Ebay purchase, I don't see how they can deny it.

But, since you are speaking to more high end stuff, I have shipped items for $10k and more but have not had an issue where I needed to file a claim so I can't comment on that.

As is stated in the other threads, your best option is to get an outside, collectibles insurance to cover your items.

Luv4cards · 03-19-2021, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shrevecity

Fed Ex has a 1000 dollar cap on what they consider premium collectibles. Which includes sportscards.

Right. So if I had a $20k card then it is NOT covered by FedEx.

Luv4cards · 03-19-2021, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promethius88

Fair enough.

Only speaking from my personal experience here. Sent an order to PSA a couple years back and insured it for $3-4k. It got lost in transit. They denied the claim because I was unable to provide receipts for each and every card.
Now USPS will find every angle to deny a claim but if you have receipts for the item, ie Ebay purchase, I don't see how they can deny it.

But, since you are speaking to more high end stuff, I have shipped items for $10k and more but have not had an issue where I needed to file a claim so I can't comment on that.

As is stated in the other threads, your best option is to get an outside, collectibles insurance to cover your items.

To be clear, are you saying the package lost was shipped through USPS and even though you paid for insurance through USPS, you were denied because you couldn't prove the value? or was this a Fedex experience?

Also, this is how stupid the grading racket is...I ship cards off that are my responsibility to protect and insure ungraded, but I have to declare a value at PSA for "insurance" purposes, only for them to ship possible PSA 10s valued in the tens of thousands through Fedex which won't cover above $1K. What insurance is PSA or any other company using that they get to ship and cover that amount of money back? Or are they ill-informed about shipping insurance restrictions?

Promethius88 · 03-19-2021, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv4cards

To be clear, are you saying the package lost was shipped through USPS and even though you paid for insurance through USPS, you were denied because you couldn't prove the value? or was this a Fedex experience?

Also, this is how stupid the grading racket is...I ship cards off that are my responsibility to protect and insure ungraded, but I have to declare a value at PSA for "insurance" purposes, only for them to ship possible PSA 10s valued in the tens of thousands through Fedex which won't cover above $1K. What insurance is PSA or any other company using that they get to ship and cover that amount of money back? Or are they ill-informed about shipping insurance restrictions?

Yes, my experience was thru USPS.
I should clarify as well....I guess this was 4 years ago I was just getting back into the hobby after about a 6 year absence.
The package did end up making it to PSA after a couple of months. USPS must have found the packing slip inside because to this day the tracking number still shows in transit. If this order would have been lost for good, I may not have continued collecting at the time.

As far as PSA goes, it seems to be a real crap shoot how you get your cards back. My last two have come back via USPS which seems to get to me quicker but the few before that were FedEx.

I also could be wrong, but I'm betting that no matter who PSA uses to ship your cards back, they are probably not buying insurance from the carrier. I'm guessing they self-insure or have their own insurance to cover orders in house and being delivered back.

ballhawkdawk · 03-19-2021, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shrevecity

Fed Ex has a 1000 dollar cap on what they consider premium collectibles. Which includes sportscards.

Straight up shenanigans. Do you know if UPS is the same way?

Luv4cards · 03-19-2021, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promethius88

Yes, my experience was thru USPS.
I should clarify as well....I guess this was 4 years ago I was just getting back into the hobby after about a 6 year absence.
The package did end up making it to PSA after a couple of months. USPS must have found the packing slip inside because to this day the tracking number still shows in transit. If this order would have been lost for good, I may not have continued collecting at the time.

As far as PSA goes, it seems to be a real crap shoot how you get your cards back. My last two have come back via USPS which seems to get to me quicker but the few before that were FedEx.

I also could be wrong, but I'm betting that no matter who PSA uses to ship your cards back, they are probably not buying insurance from the carrier. I'm guessing they self-insure or have their own insurance to cover orders in house and being delivered back.

Yeah, I would lose my ish if USPS lost a package of mine that was headed to PSA and then they wouldn't honor my claim. And yeah, I would assume that PSA would use an outside insurance agency to do that. But, for the prices that we ship away with all of their potential, I think it would be good business practice to pass that insurance coverage to us when we ship to them. As it stands, not only are we taking all the risk getting the product there, but PSA doubled their prices and it all feels like a lose lose lose situation now. It's unsettling when the business is set up like this. There has to be a better, fair way to insure cards during transit and have that insurance hold up in the event of a loss.

Luv4cards · 03-19-2021, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Straight up shenanigans. Do you know if UPS is the same way?

I didn't visit UPS in person so I don't know which is why I brought this question to the boards. But if UPS doesn't and if USPS is difficult as well, what options do we have? Why does PSA or Beckett or any other grading company acting like this risk to get tens of thousands of dollars in product to them is acceptable? If we are paying thousands for grading "insurance" as they claim, that insurance should be applicable TO AND FROM their company.

regularp · 03-19-2021, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promethius88

Not trying to be rude here, but there are dozens of posts related to this question already if you do a search.

Yeah, you're being a prick.

Spacemanspif · 03-19-2021, 03:35 PM

My experience/take:

Fedex told me the same thing, that you can't insure for over $1k. You can declare a higher value but ultimately it doesn't mean anything (insert I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY! dot gif). I even showed the guy the sale amount on the ebay packing slip, it was "only" $6k but he told me he couldn't insure it for over $1k when I told him what it was.

USPS should cover the higher amount, but only if you are able to provide the sale amount (if shipping something you sold), or the purchase amount, if say you recently purchased a card and are sending it for grading. However, if you have an old Jordan that's just been sitting in the closet and you just now decide to send it for grading, you may be screwed.

UPS is always way more expensive when I have tried to use them so I'm less familiar with their policies, but I would assume it's consistent with the other two carriers

Since insurance really isn't going to help you that much in certain cases, my opinion is to use USPS Registered Mail, simply due to it being the most "secure" process, where each carrier handling the package has to sign for it so they at least feel some sort of accountability for it, versus it being just another box / envelope on the truck.

Luv4cards · 03-19-2021, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

My experience/take:

Fedex told me the same thing, that you can't insure for over $1k. You can declare a higher value but ultimately it doesn't mean anything (insert I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY! dot gif). I even showed the guy the sale amount on the ebay packing slip, it was "only" $6k but he told me he couldn't insure it for over $1k when I told him what it was.

USPS should cover the higher amount, but only if you are able to provide the sale amount (if shipping something you sold), or the purchase amount, if say you recently purchased a card and are sending it for grading. However, if you have an old Jordan that's just been sitting in the closet and you just now decide to send it for grading, you may be screwed.

UPS is always way more expensive when I have tried to use them so I'm less familiar with their policies, but I would assume it's consistent with the other two carriers

It's sounding more like USPS is the safer option, but that's only the first part. Then like you said, you have to prove your value and if it's something you pulled from a pack yourself, it will NOT be insured like a chrome Lebron rookie. What if me, the seasoned collector has stated on the PSA form that I declared a value of $8k based on my experience, shouldn't PSAs insurance kick in if they are raising their prices for insurance purposes? It seems like fraud now if I have to declare a value for insurance purposes for PSA to justify their raise hike, only to be slammed back down to earth by the carrier as they don't see that kind of value on an ungraded card. There has to be a safer, more logical way to conduct this business. Too much risk on the consumer end.

ballhawkdawk · 03-19-2021, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv4cards

I didn't visit UPS in person so I don't know which is why I brought this question to the boards. But if UPS doesn't and if USPS is difficult as well, what options do we have? Why does PSA or Beckett or any other grading company acting like this risk to get tens of thousands of dollars in product to them is acceptable? If we are paying thousands for grading "insurance" as they claim, that insurance should be applicable TO AND FROM their company.

I feel you. That’s why I asked shreve... he has all of the answers when it comes to shipping.

hauntedcomputer · 03-19-2021, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv4cards

Why does PSA or Beckett or any other grading company acting like this risk to get tens of thousands of dollars in product to them is acceptable? If we are paying thousands for grading "insurance" as they claim, that insurance should be applicable TO AND FROM their company.

Just playing devil's advocate. If I were PSA or Beckett, I wouldn't want to be responsible for whatever value somebody claims. You could be sending in half a dozen MJ reprints and valuing them like PSA 10s. I guess the same thing could be true if you were trying to defraud an insurance company or carrier.

Luv4cards · 03-19-2021, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hauntedcomputer

Just playing devil's advocate. If I were PSA or Beckett, I wouldn't want to be responsible for whatever value somebody claims. You could be sending in half a dozen MJ reprints and valuing them like PSA 10s. I guess the same thing could be true if you were trying to defraud an insurance company or carrier.

Then I'll play double devils advocate...since they don't know what we are shipping, they should stop asking us to declare a value and say its for insurance purposes and have a set, standard fee for grading any value for a card. But...if they raise rates and publicly state it is for insurance purposes then should insurance be applicable to and from if UPS or fedex or USPS won't cover?

Hbkhbk · 03-19-2021, 06:05 PM

We just need more onsite grading/slabbing! Do a random raffle and limit the cards per person. Pre-schedule on-site submission window and etc. I don’t mind paying a bit more to have my high-end cards slabbed this way.

Luv4cards · 03-19-2021, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hbkhbk

We just need more onsite grading/slabbing! Do a random raffle and limit the cards per person. Pre-schedule on-site submission window and etc. I don’t mind paying a bit more to have my high-end cards slabbed this way.

Or how about grading centers spread throughout the country based on population. Let's say New York, Virginia, and N. Florida for east coast...Cleveland, Nashville, Dallas midwest...Portland, SF, and LA west coast...and I'll throw in Kansas, Denver, and whatever for that spot in between. Hire more people, open more hubs, cheaper prices, faster turnaround and its a win for everyone.

Hbkhbk · 03-19-2021, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv4cards

Or how about grading centers spread throughout the country based on population. Let's say New York, Virginia, and N. Florida for east coast...Cleveland, Nashville, Dallas midwest...Portland, SF, and LA west coast...and I'll throw in Kansas, Denver, and whatever for that spot in between. Hire more people, open more hubs, cheaper prices, faster turnaround and its a win for everyone.

Anyone remember Nat’s handle, so we can PM him the suggestions?

dani0100 · 03-19-2021, 09:41 PM

I ship a few different ways, but two of them are using Pirateship.com and Shopify's built-in shipping. Both of these services sell insurance through a third party insurer instead of the carrier company. I've read their terms and didn't see anything that would cause issues for coverage of sports cards being sent. The cost of the insurance through these services is generally cheaper than what USPS offers.

There might be other online shipping services that cover a variety of carriers and that also allow you to purchase third party insurance.

SupermanBrandon · 03-19-2021, 10:01 PM

Proper insurance on your card collection can also cover your shipping insurance!

03-19-2021, 01:38 PM	#1
Luv4cards Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Hampton Roads Posts: 111	The real deal on shipping insurance So there's a lot of value in the basketball market and most transactions and grading are taking place across a distance. I just found out today that Fedex will not cover a "collectible" over $1k, even if I declare the value to be $20k and they accept it and it is graded/appraised by PSA to be valued at fair market value in the $20k range. I thought this was odd and it got me thinking...Is UPS like this? Does USPS registered mail work like this? Do companies let you claim or declare a high value only to see in the fine print that it does NOT cover collectibles beyond a certain limit? The Fedex lady told me that I would need an outside company or even my home owners insurance to cover a collectible being delivered. Also, does anyone actually have experience with a high end item that was lost/stolen/damaged during transit and won/lost an insurance claim because the item was in fact not covered because of its collectible nature?

03-19-2021, 03:35 PM	#16
Spacemanspif Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 5,885 Spacemanspif	My experience/take: Fedex told me the same thing, that you can't insure for over $1k. You can declare a higher value but ultimately it doesn't mean anything (insert I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY! dot gif). I even showed the guy the sale amount on the ebay packing slip, it was "only" $6k but he told me he couldn't insure it for over $1k when I told him what it was. USPS should cover the higher amount, but only if you are able to provide the sale amount (if shipping something you sold), or the purchase amount, if say you recently purchased a card and are sending it for grading. However, if you have an old Jordan that's just been sitting in the closet and you just now decide to send it for grading, you may be screwed. UPS is always way more expensive when I have tried to use them so I'm less familiar with their policies, but I would assume it's consistent with the other two carriers Since insurance really isn't going to help you that much in certain cases, my opinion is to use USPS Registered Mail, simply due to it being the most "secure" process, where each carrier handling the package has to sign for it so they at least feel some sort of accountability for it, versus it being just another box / envelope on the truck. Last edited by Spacemanspif; 03-19-2021 at 03:38 PM.

03-19-2021, 02:10 PM	#2
Promethius88 Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 1,499	Not trying to be rude here, but there are dozens of posts related to this question already if you do a search.

03-19-2021, 02:25 PM	#3
ballhawkdawk Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Downingtown, PA Posts: 7,485	So you’re saying there’s a $1k built in insurance regardless of declared value? Or No matter what you specifically insure it for, they cap it at $1k if it’s a collectible?

03-19-2021, 06:05 PM	#21
Hbkhbk Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 382 Bedezine	We just need more onsite grading/slabbing! Do a random raffle and limit the cards per person. Pre-schedule on-site submission window and etc. I don’t mind paying a bit more to have my high-end cards slabbed this way.

03-19-2021, 09:41 PM	#24
dani0100 Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 685	I ship a few different ways, but two of them are using Pirateship.com and Shopify's built-in shipping. Both of these services sell insurance through a third party insurer instead of the carrier company. I've read their terms and didn't see anything that would cause issues for coverage of sports cards being sent. The cost of the insurance through these services is generally cheaper than what USPS offers. There might be other online shipping services that cover a variety of carriers and that also allow you to purchase third party insurance.

03-19-2021, 10:01 PM	#25
SupermanBrandon Banned Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: TN Posts: 15,842	Proper insurance on your card collection can also cover your shipping insurance!