PSA Upcharge - Is this ethical?

[Mister2Bits]

I sent in 30+ packs to PSA for grading back in November. They just popped and PSA is upcharging me on some of the packs that received a higher grade. I got a charge increase on all 10's and some 9's (but not all), but for the same packs that got lower grades there was no upcharge.

PSA messaged me saying "This submission contains 15 packs that do not qualify for the $20 fee due to their graded value. We understand that you had no way of knowing the grades; however, when the value does exceed the limit for the fee you originally selected, we must make the proper adjustments."

So now I'm being penalized for what PSA believes a higher value the grade can bring.

I was always under the impression that the cost of grading was determined by the replacement value of the raw card/pack being graded. Not the value of that card in a PSA 10 holder.

I already accepted the upcharges because there isn't anything I can do, but I'm conflicted about this and it doesn't feel right.

[ChaseUA]

Originally Posted by Mister2Bits

I sent in 30+ packs to PSA for grading back in November. They just popped and PSA is upcharging me on some of the packs that received a higher grade. I got a charge increase on all 10's and some 9's (but not all), but for the same packs that got lower grades there was no upcharge.

PSA messaged me saying "This submission contains 15 packs that do not qualify for the $20 fee due to their graded value. We understand that you had no way of knowing the grades; however, when the value does exceed the limit for the fee you originally selected, we must make the proper adjustments."

So now I'm being penalized for what PSA believes a higher value the grade can bring.

I was always under the impression that the cost of grading was determined by the replacement value of the raw card/pack being graded. Not the value of that card in a PSA 10 holder.

I already accepted the upcharges because there isn't anything I can do, but I'm conflicted about this and it doesn't feel right.

Unfortunately all cards/packs are subject to upcharges based on the "Graded value", not "raw value". Generally speaking its usually only the PSA 10's that are up-charged (at least with modern and super-modern cards/packs). I get frustrated by it as well, and really wish the "graded value" was based on when the card was submitted - not when it was graded - as there have been several instances that a card was a valued at say $300 as a PSA 10 when it was submitted, and now the card is a $600 card when they finally complete the grading a year later.

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by ChaseUA

Unfortunately all cards/packs are subject to upcharges based on the "Graded value", not "raw value". Generally speaking its usually only the PSA 10's that are up-charged (at least with modern and super-modern cards/packs). I get frustrated by it as well, and really wish the "graded value" was based on when the card was submitted - not when it was graded - as there have been several instances that a card was a valued at say $300 as a PSA 10 when it was submitted, and now the card is a $600 card when they finally complete the grading a year later.

Upcharge s are frustrating, but it definitely lets you know you have some more expensive cards/packs coming back. The opposite is true as well I believe. The delay has reduced the number of up charges we would have received had the cards been returned in a more timely fashion.

[hauntedcomputer]

What possible conflict of interest could there be?

Most PSA cards are overgraded, sometimes wildly so. The fact that a 60/40 card can get a 10 makes it all a joke at someone else's expense. Namely the hobbyists'.

Wish I had a business where I could arbitrarily decide what to charge the customer.

[coltsfan23]

We all hate it, but PSA's stance is that due to their guarantee, they have more liability for the item once it's slabbed in case it gets damaged/lost in their facility or if they need to pay out the owner in the future if it doesn't actually belong in the slab (e.g. fake item, altered item, damaged item).

[glen87]

Originally Posted by Mister2Bits

I sent in 30+ packs to PSA for grading back in November. They just popped and PSA is upcharging me on some of the packs that received a higher grade. I got a charge increase on all 10's and some 9's (but not all), but for the same packs that got lower grades there was no upcharge.

PSA messaged me saying "This submission contains 15 packs that do not qualify for the $20 fee due to their graded value. We understand that you had no way of knowing the grades; however, when the value does exceed the limit for the fee you originally selected, we must make the proper adjustments."

So now I'm being penalized for what PSA believes a higher value the grade can bring.

I was always under the impression that the cost of grading was determined by the replacement value of the raw card/pack being graded. Not the value of that card in a PSA 10 holder.

I already accepted the upcharges because there isn't anything I can do, but I'm conflicted about this and it doesn't feel right.

what were the packs and what did you declare them?

[letsgocapitals]

Originally Posted by hauntedcomputer

What possible conflict of interest could there be?

Most PSA cards are overgraded, sometimes wildly so. The fact that a 60/40 card can get a 10 makes it all a joke at someone else's expense. Namely the hobbyists'.

Wish I had a business where I could arbitrarily decide what to charge the customer.

I've seen this take a few times; and never understood it.

I highly doubt any PSA employee desires to look up the sell cost just to tack on a extra fee for a submitter. They just want to get through the cards in front of them.

I highly doubt PSA uses this to gouge submitters. They have MILLIONS of cards to grade, and don't get paid until right before they head out the door. They just want to get through this backlog.

My strong guess is they use this as a simple deterrent so that submitters don't send in highly valued cards via bulk submissions. That's probably a good idea, yes?

[SupermanBrandon]

Dont like...dont grade w/ them. Speak w/ your wallet.

[jewcer2k5]

Originally Posted by Mister2Bits

I sent in 30+ packs to PSA for grading back in November. They just popped and PSA is upcharging me on some of the packs that received a higher grade. I got a charge increase on all 10's and some 9's (but not all), but for the same packs that got lower grades there was no upcharge.

PSA messaged me saying "This submission contains 15 packs that do not qualify for the $20 fee due to their graded value. We understand that you had no way of knowing the grades; however, when the value does exceed the limit for the fee you originally selected, we must make the proper adjustments."

So now I'm being penalized for what PSA believes a higher value the grade can bring.

I was always under the impression that the cost of grading was determined by the replacement value of the raw card/pack being graded. Not the value of that card in a PSA 10 holder.

I already accepted the upcharges because there isn't anything I can do, but I'm conflicted about this and it doesn't feel right.

The thing is, its in their TOS. If you dont like it, dont sign the TOS.

[dictoresno]

I got upcharged a few times and its almost a welcoming thing. they have to properly insure the card for return shipping. so a $75 raw value card that just dimed and is now "worth" $3000 as a 10, needs to be upcharged and valued accordingly for insuring/shipping purposes.

[mjohnatgt]

Your other option, if you choose, is to value them all at PSA 10 and then just give them a lot of free money for ones that get low grades. You did your part right, and PSA did theirs.

[RufussCkingston]

Nothing unethical.... You agreed to upcharge possibility when you originally submitted.

Also, sounds like you valued the packs incorrectly when you submitted them as raw value, when you have to declare what YOU think the graded value will be.

You should be grateful that you are paying upcharges as they are now worth more than you thought.

[sh403]

Originally Posted by coltsfan23

We all hate it, but PSA's stance is that due to their guarantee, they have more liability for the item once it's slabbed in case it gets damaged/lost in their facility or if they need to pay out the owner in the future if it doesn't actually belong in the slab (e.g. fake item, altered item, damaged item).

Suppose back in January of this year PSA was assessing an 86 Fleer Jordan that was valued at $8k by the submitter, and for which the submitter paid a grading fee of $600 per PSA's pricing chart. Then suppose the card was graded a 10 by PSA, but in the process of being encapsulated in a holder was damaged by PSA and thus no longer in PSA 10 condition. Had the card been properly placed in a PSA holder without being damaged, the value of the card would have exceeded $250k. In this scenario, would PSA upcharge the customer $9,400 so that its insurance could pay out a ~$400-700k insurance claim to the submitter, or would PSA simply call the submitter up and tell them that the card was damaged and that they'll be receiving a $8k check in the mail?

[rhineland]

At what point in the process do upcharges typically get communicated to a customer? Is it during assembly, after that, or purely random?

[DKsportscardsWI]

Originally Posted by rhineland

At what point in the process do upcharges typically get communicated to a customer? Is it during assembly, after that, or purely random?

upcharges happen basically at the last stages. Once cards are graded and go through Q1 and Q2. Right before your CC is charged and grades are released, they will notify you saying there was a hold on the order and you need to contact them. So, you'll never know until the very last second

[RufussCkingston]

Originally Posted by sh403

Suppose back in January of this year PSA was assessing an 86 Fleer Jordan that was valued at $8k by the submitter, and for which the submitter paid a grading fee of $600 per PSA's pricing chart. Then suppose the card was graded a 10 by PSA, but in the process of being encapsulated in a holder was damaged by PSA and thus no longer in PSA 10 condition. Had the card been properly placed in a PSA holder without being damaged, the value of the card would have exceeded $250k. In this scenario, would PSA upcharge the customer $9,400 so that its insurance could pay out a ~$400-700k insurance claim to the submitter, or would PSA simply call the submitter up and tell them that the card was damaged and that they'll be receiving a $8k check in the mail?

Unfortunately per the T's & C's, the upcharge DOES NOT change the declared value for insurance/lost/damaged reasons.... It only allows you to get your card back.

So even if the submitter got upcharged for the 250k card, it if got lost/stolen in the mail, the submitter would only get $8k back.

Q: What happens if my Declared Value is understated?

A: If PSA determines, in its sole discretion and at any point in the process, that the submitted Declared Value has been understated relative to the market value of the item, PSA reserves the right to decline your stated Declared Value. If PSA declines the Declared Value of an item, PSA may require you to pay for the accurate Service Level as a condition of PSA completing the authentication and grading process as to the subject item. If you refuse, or are unable, to pay PSA for the accurate Service Level, then PSA will return the item to you unprocessed at your cost, and you will be charged for the Service Level at which you submitted the item. PSA’s determination that you have understated the Declared Value will affect only the Service Level charge, it will not change the Declared Value for purposes of establishing the maximum item value for claim or shipping insurance purposes.

[OPChockey]

Curious like other posters what the packs were - you must have gotten lots of 9s and 10s.

A question I have in relation to this - what does PSA charge for a grade of 10 if it's the first/only pack in the pop report? How do they determine or estimate the value? What if there are hardly any recorded sales of packs for that particular year?

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by OPChockey

A question I have in relation to this - what does PSA charge for a grade of 10 if it's the first/only pack in the pop report? How do they determine or estimate the value? What if there are hardly any recorded sales of packs for that particular year?

Many times if there are no recorded sales in that grade, they let them go at the submitted level. One of the guys on a Blowout group submission got a PSA 10 on a HOF football card from the 1970s, POP 1. The PSA 9s were selling for like $300-400 at the time, but they left it in the $7/card bulk level.
But that's kind of a crapshoot. They could have noticed the 9s were selling for hundreds and raised the service level.

[Mister2Bits]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

The packs in question were 2004 Pokemon Fire Red Leaf Green packs that I had bought when I was younger and stored away. When I submitted them in November they were selling for $200 per ungraded so I submitted them at the $20 service level. They currently sell in PSA 10 for around $400 per (July 2nd).

I received 15 PSA 10's.

I understand the Term of Service which is why I didn't try and fight it. To be clear, I paid all of the upcharges. I wasn't trying to game the system. I've personally graded over +1500 cards and this is only my 2nd upcharge.

I was just a little frustrated at the - if you get a 10 we're going to charge you more - the communication is poor too. How did the value them?

[mc1]

I think if you would have received a few less 10s then they wouldn't have upcharged you.

Thems the breaks.

[dictoresno]

Originally Posted by Mister2Bits

Thanks for the comments everyone.

The packs in question were 2004 Pokemon Fire Red Leaf Green packs that I had bought when I was younger and stored away. When I submitted them in November they were selling for $200 per ungraded so I submitted them at the $20 service level. They currently sell in PSA 10 for around $400 per (July 2nd).

I received 15 PSA 10's.

I understand the Term of Service which is why I didn't try and fight it. To be clear, I paid all of the upcharges. I wasn't trying to game the system. I've personally graded over +1500 cards and this is only my 2nd upcharge.

I was just a little frustrated at the - if you get a 10 we're going to charge you more - the communication is poor too. How did the value them?

ive had PSA 10 $2000 cards not get upcharged, and less valued cards get it. I honestly think they randomly audit some orders. my most recent bulk sub that just popped through a bulk subber just got hit with an upcharge on a 2003 Topps Chrome Carmelo Refractor PSA 10, I happily paid the $75.

[RufussCkingston]

Originally Posted by Mister2Bits

Thanks for the comments everyone.

The packs in question were 2004 Pokemon Fire Red Leaf Green packs that I had bought when I was younger and stored away. When I submitted them in November they were selling for $200 per ungraded so I submitted them at the $20 service level. They currently sell in PSA 10 for around $400 per (July 2nd).

I'm curious how much they upcharged you per pack. The pricing is different now, but it's $25 for $249 value and then $50 for up to $999 value.

Does seem a little petty that after 8 months that they would ding you for $400-$500 values. If they were closer to $1k each, then I could see it.

Also a little surprised that there isn't a bigger premium on graded Fire Red packs, but I guess the ones that come in hanging blister packaging prevents resealing...

I was just a little frustrated at the - if you get a 10 we're going to charge you more - the communication is poor too. How did the value them?

Well, if you declared at the PSA 10 value, then they wouldn't upcharge you for getting a 10. As for how they get the value, I'd assume eBay listings.

[IndySportsCards]

If they sent me compensation checks for when their perceived values on cards don't sell as high, then I wouldn't be so sour about the extortion.

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by RufussCkingston

As for how they get the value, I'd assume eBay listings.

Recall that their Auction Prices Realized tool is integrated into their site. So any recorded sales in their pricing history can be seen by the company as they're evaluating orders.

[21stguy]

+1 on the upcharge thing being random. I been upcharged once, then most recently I had some submissions like 2020 FB Herbert NT /25 which gemmed but didn't get upcharged. Based on what you read and see though, PSA does seem to be quite relaxed on upcharging in most cases though.