Prominent Breaker Cancels NT Breaks Due to Value of NT

LoveLondon · 08-12-2021, 04:04 AM

Very interesting. Phil Hughes came out in support of this. Will others follow suit?

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CSdLrk-...dium=copy_link

This is pretty ridiculous though. You can’t even get a piece of material from the player on the card for NT? Just awful in my opinion.

bkcardcollector · 08-12-2021, 04:31 AM

wow those sentences are always a joke if it doesnt say game used but that one takes the cake.

dengbang · 08-12-2021, 04:56 AM

Aside from the value of the top RPA's/Logomans etc, what does NT offer? Nothing.

notfast · 08-12-2021, 06:15 AM

Are we sure they just couldn’t get enough cases? Or wanted to dump them to other dealers instead of breaking them?

Good PR stunt but I don’t buy it.

sethc1020 · 08-12-2021, 07:08 AM

Huge mistake by Panini and an even bigger slap in the face to all their customers. Event worn was bad enough but this is just TRASH!

LC2nine10 · 08-12-2021, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dengbang

Aside from the value of the top RPA's/Logomans etc, what does NT offer? Nothing.

You could say something similar about every product.
Blowout is almost sold out, I don't think most people care.

BaseballKing · 08-12-2021, 07:34 AM

But he talks up another Panini product? All basketball wax is obscenely priced for what you get. This is a game that is now almost exclusively played by people who can afford to flush good money down the toilet or degenerate gamblers who are getting crushed.

I used to love watching breaks. Not anymore. Even watching breaks of Prizm hobby makes me feel slightly nauseous. It's about as riveting as watching people get crucified at a Black Jack table in a casino. There's no fun in that.

jzx1103 · 08-12-2021, 07:35 AM

This is a major reason I don't touch any of the ultra modern Panini Crap. I missed the days when card companies stated where the piece of GU material came from on a card.

BaseballKing · 08-12-2021, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC2nine10

You could say something similar about every product.
Blowout is almost sold out, I don't think most people care.

Most people that are cashed up that is. Breaking basketball hobby wax has become a rich man's game. If you are earning 50K - 80K a year and raising a family you are not buying that stuff. If you are, you are most likely a degenerate gambler.

Reignmanprice · 08-12-2021, 08:08 AM

NT was never my favourite Product. The RPAs are beautiful but the rest?
meh and thats my feelings for years.

Too much Jersey Cards nobody cares about and wayyyy to many Stickers for a High End release. With the Hobby and Price rises the last 2 Years its even more unbalanced on the Price-perfomance ratio. Remember NT is Coming from $425 per Box pre Covid.....
a lot of people follow NT just for the RPAs. look at Impaccable thats a Sexy Product compared to NT. i dont get it. each year.

90skid · 08-12-2021, 08:13 AM

Look at this offer of an NT break... $450 a spot, equating out to $4,500 in for a single box of NT to the breaker. It's pretty obvious not a single spot was purchased.

imbluestreak23 · 08-12-2021, 08:16 AM

If folks are going to do group breaks, stick to pre Panini era stuff.

If you need to get your "fix" because your a crack/card breaking addict, at least support a company that cares about it's collectors by:
-Limits stickers
-actually puts Game Used jerseys and patches in products because folks like me still care about those things and think they are cool
-At least tries to put out a good checklist
-Limits the number of redemptions where possible

Spending $100/pack on any product and getting a sticker is 100% unacceptable. Spending $3-$4K on a product that yields a sticker, especially that of John Salmons is a clear indication that you have a mental problem. It's unfathomable how people continue to support this crap company. They are right up their with Leaf/Razor except for the the fact that they have billions of dollars lol.

Brobocop · 08-12-2021, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90skid

Look at this offer of an NT break... $450 a spot, equating out to $4,500 in for a single box of NT to the breaker. It's pretty obvious not a single spot was purchased.

Select UFC at $90 a pack................lol.

abidtsteele · 08-12-2021, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

If folks are going to do group breaks, stick to pre Panini era stuff.

If you need to get your "fix" because your a crack/card breaking addict, at least support a company that cares about it's collectors by:
-Limits stickers
-actually puts Game Used jerseys and patches in products because folks like me still care about those things and think they are cool
-At least tries to put out a good checklist
-Limits the number of redemptions where possible

Spending $100/pack on any product and getting a sticker is 100% unacceptable. Spending $3-$4K on a product that yields a sticker, especially that of John Salmons is a clear indication that you have a mental problem. It's unfathomable how people continue to support this crap company. They are right up their with Leaf/Razor except for the the fact that they have billions of dollars lol.

I don't disagree with the premise...but its not the company, its just the era. Times have changed and what you are describing is a by gone era. The companies you are talking about do the same thing Panini does in the sports they have licenses for

phil · 08-12-2021, 08:30 AM

Blowout has raised their FOTL case buy price 3 times in a short period, now up to $23000 so doesn't seem to be affecting those much.

mrchipz · 08-12-2021, 08:31 AM

I 100% agree with this and this is the tipping point to me.

I have a budget i set aside all year for nt group breaks.

The cases and values in them yesterday were just BRUTAL.

I understand its a gamble and you will lose alot more then you win.

But this is on another level.

For me personally i had multiple teams in 7 cases with 1 breaker and i got killed as did pretty much every single other person that was in all of those cases.

NT has became such a watered down product now its sickening.

Like i said i understand its a gamble like any other product but NOT for NT, NOT for their flagship product. They should be disgusted with themselves for putting this out.

At nearly $4,000 a box this is almost criminal.

My main Gripes -

Too many scrub vet autos-
I understand not every box can have curry and durant and other big name stars but at least even it out. If you are going to give me autos of Fat lever and Chris Kaman then throw me a decent auto as well in a $4,000 box. In 7 cases i seen there was not 1 curry, not 1 durant, Giannis doesnt even have autos in the product!!! How??? Kyrie Irving does not have autos in the product!! James Harden does not have autos in the product and the list goes on. This is a flagship product! In 7 cases the best 5 autos i seen were 1 Anthony Davis auto /25, 2 Karl Malone Autos, 1 Barkley auto redemption and 1 shaq auto. The rest were so bad its nuts.

Sticker Autos!!! -
Once again a flagship product. NT used to never have sticker autos and it has been worse and worse every year. In the cases i seen each case averaged 4-5 on card autos per case!! Thats terrible. More sticker autos then on card.

RPA's-
This has got to be the worse. In 7 cases i seen opened i think there were only 3 REAL RPA's! The Vertical ones. The rest of them were all the Horizontal ones that are not the real RPA's. Even then i seen cases that had only 2 vertical RPA's total! For 7 cases to only hit 3 vertical RPA's is terrible. This is 7 cases! Not boxes.

NO Games used material-
What happen to NT being the place to find game used jerseys? Hell what happen to all cards jerseys being game used! But especially In NT the flagship product!!! Mostly all the jerseys in this arent game worn and many say they are not even worn by the player on the card!!! It is no BS now just they buy a replica jersey off the rack, cut it up and put it in a card with the player not even seeing it let alone wearing it for 1 second.

I can go on and on but the truth is NT is a shell of its former self and Panini should be ashamed of this BS.
Its like they used the markets hype to drive the product and just half assed it.

Tons of scrub vet autos, worthless jerseys, TONS of sticker autos with many being smudged or ran off the sticker, lack of RPA's the main selling point of the product and fake game worn or even player worn relics.

They just destroyed the product.
They put the new Horizontal fake RPA's in and gave them variations of /75/49/25/10/5 and so on so they can produce many more boxes and cases with crap cards and no TRUE RPA's. They can make so many more cases by adding all this junk in they did.

You can get better value in any other NBA product!!

Average box consist's of -
1 base card average value $5
1 Printing Plate average value $20
3 Jersey cards Average Value $10 Each
1 Patch card average value $20
1 on card auto average value of $20
2 sticker card autos average value $15 Each
1 RPA or "better" Vet auto card average value of $200

Most of these boxes will yield you back $200-$400 value of sticker autos, fake RPA's, scrub vet autos and fake jersey cards for $4,000.

I will never in my life buy any more NT product ever again. I budget $3,000-$5,000 to spend on group breaks of it every year and i have spent $2,900 and i am already tapping out.

They ruined this product so badly its not even Funny.

I dont even like Blez but i agree with them and support them 100% and they might have just earned my business back again now after this.

When your average box is a

Joe harris Base card
a 1/1 printing plate of nikola vucevic
a jersey of coby white
a jersey of josh richardson
a jersey of of otto porter jersey
a patch of daniel gibson
a patch sticker auto of robert covington
and a horizontal RPA of Vernon Carey Jr

LOL
End Rant/

ExpFacilitators · 08-12-2021, 08:35 AM

It may take a few more products like this to help cure the gambling culture. The thing about break gambling is that at -80% expected value, eventually the ecosystem runs out of suckers. There’s a reason casinos give you offers in the mail (which they lovingly and euphemistically call “reinvestment” (at least internally)). There will always be the class of break participant that truly doesn’t care and just wants to swing for the fences, but a lot of wannabe investment stars/flippers got hooked and are rapidly going broke.

It’s very telling that this guy simultaneously says “stay away from product X” and still follows with “....but don’t stop gambling completely because product Y is hot stuff”.

I like to gamble but I’m so happy the one NT break I was going to go big in never filled.

mrchipz · 08-12-2021, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil

Blowout has raised their FOTL case buy price 3 times in a short period, now up to $23000 so doesn't seem to be affecting those much.

They can try to manipulate the market all they want. Most breakers i seen couldnt even fill it especially after people seen how bad the 1st few cases were. Many breaks had to run 99 spot random number fillers for multiple teams and many didnt even fill breaks at all the whole day.
People are starting to wake up and that is a good thing.
I dont think people mind spending good money on singles but not this garbage product.

Zacy87 · 08-12-2021, 08:37 AM

I'm not knocking you guys, but between two of you, you mentioned a combined savings of around $12k-$15k each year for NT Breaks... That right there is what causes issues like this.

So many people, regardless of checklist, save money for these Flagship breaks and now this is the year people are really considering stopping? This year isn't that much worse than last year. This is NT almost every year since 2017-2018.

mrchipz · 08-12-2021, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExpFacilitators

It may take a few more products like this to help cure the gambling culture. The thing about break gambling is that at -80% expected value, eventually the ecosystem runs out of suckers. There’s a reason casinos give you offers in the mail (which they lovingly and euphemistically call “reinvestment” (at least internally)). There will always be the class of break participant that truly doesn’t care and just wants to swing for the fences, but a lot of wannabe investment stars/flippers got hooked and are rapidly going broke.

It’s very telling that this guy simultaneously says “stay away from product X” and still follows with “....but don’t stop gambling completely because product Y is hot stuff”.

I like to gamble but I’m so happy the one NT break I was going to go big in never filled.

I agree with you i like to gamble every now and then as well but the value in this product for the price and what it is, is just horrendous!

They dont even have autos of most of the top stars in it at all.

ThatGuyPal · 08-12-2021, 08:42 AM

When Spectra is just as bad with the same “patches” will he cancel those breaks too?

Then I’ll believe he’s for the hobby

ohio_mba · 08-12-2021, 08:43 AM

And Blez has the nerve to say in his video "It's not Panini's fault".

Mf, yes it is! And it's also the fault of breakers. Panini has really started to phone in their products and upcharge because of how ridiculous everything has gotten. Breakers started this mess. I used to break all the time but now you have to pay $300+ just to get into a numbers filler. I remember when for NT you could pay $150 and have a shot at an entire team.

mrchipz · 08-12-2021, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuyPal

When Spectra is just as bad with the same “patches” will he cancel those breaks too?

Then I’ll believe he’s for the hobby

Spectra is a quarter of the price of NT.
In Spectra its expected not in NT.
I actually agree with him that spectra will have a much higher average ROI then NT.
Getting $400 worth of cards out of a $4000 box or getting $400 worth of cards out of a $1000 box is a different thing.

mrchipz · 08-12-2021, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohio_mba

And Blez has the nerve to say in his video "It's not Panini's fault".

Mf, yes it is! And it's also the fault of breakers. Panini has really started to phone in their products and upcharge because of how ridiculous everything has gotten. Breakers started this mess. I used to break all the time but now you have to pay $300+ just to get into a numbers filler. I remember when for NT you could pay $150 and have a shot at an entire team.

I agree with you as well. Yes i agree with what he said but i also think he is wrong on the aspect of not blaming panini.
It is 100% paninis fault. I mean they start off FOTL products at $10,000 a box or more lol.

You can still get good teams in NT for the whole case for a decent value but there are not many of those teams.
For instance i thought the Jazz were a solid buy at $150 case with autos of Stockton,Malone, Having a chance to get an RPA and other decent players Like Donavan Mitchell & Rudy Gorbert.
But most of the team prices are just so high it is crazy.
Like Lakers for $800 a case, I watched 8 cases opened now and did not see a single Lebron James jersey,patch or base card and 1 Antony Davis auto.

ExpFacilitators · 08-12-2021, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacy87

I'm not knocking you guys, but between two of you, you mentioned a combined savings of around $12k-$15k each year for NT Breaks... That right there is what causes issues like this.

So many people, regardless of checklist, save money for these Flagship breaks and now this is the year people are really considering stopping? This year isn't that much worse than last year. This is NT almost every year since 2017-2018.

I think the ultra wealthy will not stop (and honestly I wouldn’t either as long as casinos are covid Petri dishes).

The mid-tier is getting fatigued from the probability of a successful outcome going from 25% to 1%.

The lower tier folks are less able to withstand the variance/losses.

Cumulatively this is long-term healthy. And if a few breakers can’t survive, that’s good too for the ecosystem as a whole.

My $10-15k isn’t leaving the hobby, but it’s not going to help support the high-end bloodbath.

08-12-2021, 04:04 AM	#1
LoveLondon Member Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 422	Prominent Breaker Cancels NT Breaks Due to Value of NT Very interesting. Phil Hughes came out in support of this. Will others follow suit? https://www.instagram.com/tv/CSdLrk-...dium=copy_link This is pretty ridiculous though. You can’t even get a piece of material from the player on the card for NT? Just awful in my opinion. Last edited by LoveLondon; 08-12-2021 at 04:12 AM.

08-12-2021, 04:31 AM	#2
bkcardcollector Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Raptors Nation Posts: 7,878 bk_card_collector bk_card_collector	wow those sentences are always a joke if it doesnt say game used but that one takes the cake. __________________ Got Tyler Ennis?

08-12-2021, 04:56 AM	#3
dengbang Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Midwest Posts: 2,061	Aside from the value of the top RPA's/Logomans etc, what does NT offer? Nothing. __________________ I collect Johnny "Red" Kerr & Luol Deng

08-12-2021, 07:08 AM	#5
sethc1020 Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,741 sethc_1020	Huge mistake by Panini and an even bigger slap in the face to all their customers. Event worn was bad enough but this is just TRASH! __________________ https://www.flickr.com/gp/151086784@N06/28H47r

08-12-2021, 08:16 AM	#12
imbluestreak23 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Meandering the matrix code that the hobby/forum overlords spit out Posts: 18,172 shortslabs	If folks are going to do group breaks, stick to pre Panini era stuff. If you need to get your "fix" because your a crack/card breaking addict, at least support a company that cares about it's collectors by: -Limits stickers -actually puts Game Used jerseys and patches in products because folks like me still care about those things and think they are cool -At least tries to put out a good checklist -Limits the number of redemptions where possible Spending $100/pack on any product and getting a sticker is 100% unacceptable. Spending $3-$4K on a product that yields a sticker, especially that of John Salmons is a clear indication that you have a mental problem. It's unfathomable how people continue to support this crap company. They are right up their with Leaf/Razor except for the the fact that they have billions of dollars lol. __________________ @shortslabs I'VE WITNESSED HOW THE SAUSAGE IS MADE HERE...IT'S ROTTEN https://www.youtube.com/c/TylerShort

08-12-2021, 06:15 AM	#4
notfast Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: MD Posts: 4,061	Are we sure they just couldn’t get enough cases? Or wanted to dump them to other dealers instead of breaking them? Good PR stunt but I don’t buy it.

08-12-2021, 07:34 AM	#7
BaseballKing Member Join Date: May 2021 Location: I got banned from BO/God bless you all Posts: 1,941	But he talks up another Panini product? All basketball wax is obscenely priced for what you get. This is a game that is now almost exclusively played by people who can afford to flush good money down the toilet or degenerate gamblers who are getting crushed. I used to love watching breaks. Not anymore. Even watching breaks of Prizm hobby makes me feel slightly nauseous. It's about as riveting as watching people get crucified at a Black Jack table in a casino. There's no fun in that.

08-12-2021, 07:35 AM	#8
jzx1103 Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,584	This is a major reason I don't touch any of the ultra modern Panini Crap. I missed the days when card companies stated where the piece of GU material came from on a card.

08-12-2021, 08:08 AM	#10
Reignmanprice Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 154	NT was never my favourite Product. The RPAs are beautiful but the rest? meh and thats my feelings for years. Too much Jersey Cards nobody cares about and wayyyy to many Stickers for a High End release. With the Hobby and Price rises the last 2 Years its even more unbalanced on the Price-perfomance ratio. Remember NT is Coming from $425 per Box pre Covid..... a lot of people follow NT just for the RPAs. look at Impaccable thats a Sexy Product compared to NT. i dont get it. each year.

08-12-2021, 08:13 AM	#11
90skid Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 1,887	Look at this offer of an NT break... $450 a spot, equating out to $4,500 in for a single box of NT to the breaker. It's pretty obvious not a single spot was purchased.

08-12-2021, 08:30 AM	#15
phil Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 8,869	Blowout has raised their FOTL case buy price 3 times in a short period, now up to $23000 so doesn't seem to be affecting those much.

08-12-2021, 08:31 AM	#16
mrchipz Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 3,809	I 100% agree with this and this is the tipping point to me. I have a budget i set aside all year for nt group breaks. The cases and values in them yesterday were just BRUTAL. I understand its a gamble and you will lose alot more then you win. But this is on another level. For me personally i had multiple teams in 7 cases with 1 breaker and i got killed as did pretty much every single other person that was in all of those cases. NT has became such a watered down product now its sickening. Like i said i understand its a gamble like any other product but NOT for NT, NOT for their flagship product. They should be disgusted with themselves for putting this out. At nearly $4,000 a box this is almost criminal. My main Gripes - Too many scrub vet autos- I understand not every box can have curry and durant and other big name stars but at least even it out. If you are going to give me autos of Fat lever and Chris Kaman then throw me a decent auto as well in a $4,000 box. In 7 cases i seen there was not 1 curry, not 1 durant, Giannis doesnt even have autos in the product!!! How??? Kyrie Irving does not have autos in the product!! James Harden does not have autos in the product and the list goes on. This is a flagship product! In 7 cases the best 5 autos i seen were 1 Anthony Davis auto /25, 2 Karl Malone Autos, 1 Barkley auto redemption and 1 shaq auto. The rest were so bad its nuts. Sticker Autos!!! - Once again a flagship product. NT used to never have sticker autos and it has been worse and worse every year. In the cases i seen each case averaged 4-5 on card autos per case!! Thats terrible. More sticker autos then on card. RPA's- This has got to be the worse. In 7 cases i seen opened i think there were only 3 REAL RPA's! The Vertical ones. The rest of them were all the Horizontal ones that are not the real RPA's. Even then i seen cases that had only 2 vertical RPA's total! For 7 cases to only hit 3 vertical RPA's is terrible. This is 7 cases! Not boxes. NO Games used material- What happen to NT being the place to find game used jerseys? Hell what happen to all cards jerseys being game used! But especially In NT the flagship product!!! Mostly all the jerseys in this arent game worn and many say they are not even worn by the player on the card!!! It is no BS now just they buy a replica jersey off the rack, cut it up and put it in a card with the player not even seeing it let alone wearing it for 1 second. I can go on and on but the truth is NT is a shell of its former self and Panini should be ashamed of this BS. Its like they used the markets hype to drive the product and just half assed it. Tons of scrub vet autos, worthless jerseys, TONS of sticker autos with many being smudged or ran off the sticker, lack of RPA's the main selling point of the product and fake game worn or even player worn relics. They just destroyed the product. They put the new Horizontal fake RPA's in and gave them variations of /75/49/25/10/5 and so on so they can produce many more boxes and cases with crap cards and no TRUE RPA's. They can make so many more cases by adding all this junk in they did. You can get better value in any other NBA product!! Average box consist's of - 1 base card average value $5 1 Printing Plate average value $20 3 Jersey cards Average Value $10 Each 1 Patch card average value $20 1 on card auto average value of $20 2 sticker card autos average value $15 Each 1 RPA or "better" Vet auto card average value of $200 Most of these boxes will yield you back $200-$400 value of sticker autos, fake RPA's, scrub vet autos and fake jersey cards for $4,000. I will never in my life buy any more NT product ever again. I budget $3,000-$5,000 to spend on group breaks of it every year and i have spent $2,900 and i am already tapping out. They ruined this product so badly its not even Funny. I dont even like Blez but i agree with them and support them 100% and they might have just earned my business back again now after this. When your average box is a Joe harris Base card a 1/1 printing plate of nikola vucevic a jersey of coby white a jersey of josh richardson a jersey of of otto porter jersey a patch of daniel gibson a patch sticker auto of robert covington and a horizontal RPA of Vernon Carey Jr LOL End Rant/ __________________ Currently Collecting - Anthony Volpe

08-12-2021, 08:35 AM	#17
ExpFacilitators Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Rock Chalk Posts: 2,617 1958snap	It may take a few more products like this to help cure the gambling culture. The thing about break gambling is that at -80% expected value, eventually the ecosystem runs out of suckers. There’s a reason casinos give you offers in the mail (which they lovingly and euphemistically call “reinvestment” (at least internally)). There will always be the class of break participant that truly doesn’t care and just wants to swing for the fences, but a lot of wannabe investment stars/flippers got hooked and are rapidly going broke. It’s very telling that this guy simultaneously says “stay away from product X” and still follows with “....but don’t stop gambling completely because product Y is hot stuff”. I like to gamble but I’m so happy the one NT break I was going to go big in never filled. __________________ Soccer and Prizm low-numbered and/or PSA 10s of: Thunder, pacers, JJJ, Giannis, Jokic.

08-12-2021, 08:37 AM	#19
Zacy87 Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 10,668	I'm not knocking you guys, but between two of you, you mentioned a combined savings of around $12k-$15k each year for NT Breaks... That right there is what causes issues like this. So many people, regardless of checklist, save money for these Flagship breaks and now this is the year people are really considering stopping? This year isn't that much worse than last year. This is NT almost every year since 2017-2018.

08-12-2021, 08:42 AM	#21
ThatGuyPal Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 4,533	When Spectra is just as bad with the same “patches” will he cancel those breaks too? Then I’ll believe he’s for the hobby

08-12-2021, 08:43 AM	#22
ohio_mba Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,415	And Blez has the nerve to say in his video "It's not Panini's fault". Mf, yes it is! And it's also the fault of breakers. Panini has really started to phone in their products and upcharge because of how ridiculous everything has gotten. Breakers started this mess. I used to break all the time but now you have to pay $300+ just to get into a numbers filler. I remember when for NT you could pay $150 and have a shot at an entire team.