What's with all the BGS graded 2002 Ronaldo's?

[fadster]

Has anyone else noticed a big influx of BGS graded Panini Futebol 2002 Ronaldo's? I count 28 listed in the last week (compared to 0 PSA), 6 have sold. There are several sellers with multiples, some of whom seem a bit odd like "thaionlineshopping". You can't tell without hi res pictures but they look a little off to me, colours on the front maybe a little washed out, cross-hatching pattern on the back isn't as clear as it should be but to be fair it's one of those patters that can look a bit odd zoomed out. Maybe it's just a coincidence and several sellers are dumping at the same time but it could be a recent batch of fakes doing the rounds, I remember in a FB group someone mentioned they were recently offered a couple raw but had doubts over legitimacy.

[MonsterTruck20]

They are all in very good shape, too. After almost 20 years, most of the stickers tend to have faded a little, specifically the number 306 on the back. But on some of those that showed up on eBay recently the back appears super strong and clear like it was printed yesterday.



An older PSA graded sticker for comparison:

[fadster]

Here are examples of a regular (PSA graded) front on top and one of the new BGS ones below. They don't look good, ink pattern wrong and slightly less detail. Next question is are the BGS slabs real (in which case shame on BGS for grading these) or fake.

[3124508 on COMC]

Yep, every single BGS graded copy on eBay is fake besides the ~2 that weren’t recently graded.

[fadster]

I don't think there are a huge number of fakes out there, the problem is due to lack of grader experience they have a much higher %age of getting through than well known cards. How many fake, Jordans, Mantles and LeBron's are there, they get weeded out easily but it's not happening as it should with these. It's all the same stuff to look for, ink patterns, edge cut, certain colours not being right, sometimes even tell tale mistakes in the printing. We've got a couple of guys here advising PSA which is a great step but what with stories of Megacracks Messi counterfeits being graded by BGS it's obvious they aren't being as diligent.

[Raj3sh]

Proper fake, we need to post this in the fb groups so that people stay away .

[mwheeler27]

I think eventually people will greatly prefer to buy from trusted sellers as opposed to someone that doesn't seem likely they'd own that particular card.

For years now, I've been having my name and logo put on the slabbed labels of cards I purchased directly from manufacturers and can prove such with invoices, etc. For the most part, only cards that I am the original owner of get this treatment, and there will always be a paper trail with each one:





Counterfeiters are scumbags hurting all of us. I'll do what I can to protect my collection for the future.

[YayNJ]

Faker than pammies funbags

[KhalDrogo]

222 copies graded total. 102 copies graded this year. Looks like a flood in the past few months. Batches of 2-5 at a time. BGS just doesn’t care. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about this sticker would question so many being submitted at once.

What’s sad is that these aren’t even close. A quick glance and you can tell they are fakes.

[coltsfan23]

There is a BGS 9.5 of this batch in the current Goldin Auction. Hopefully Ken will take it down in light of this news and since it clearly contrasts to the PSA 9 (OC) they also have up.

https://goldinauctions.com/2002_03_P...LOT104831.aspx

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by coltsfan23

There is a BGS 9.5 of this batch in the current Goldin Auction. Hopefully Ken will take it down in light of this news and since it clearly contrasts to the PSA 9 (OC) they also have up.

https://goldinauctions.com/2002_03_P...LOT104831.aspx

Fake.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

222 copies graded total. 102 copies graded this year. Looks like a flood in the past few months. Batches of 2-5 at a time. BGS just doesn’t care. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about this sticker would question so many being submitted at once.

What’s sad is that these aren’t even close. A quick glance and you can tell they are fakes.

Let's be honest....the number of graders working for any of the TPG's who are knowledgeable enough about soccer cards/stickers to be able to catch even a small portion of fakes can probably be counted on one hand.

There are simply too many different soccer issues out there, especially when you start including stickers and include the entire history of soccer collectibles, which go back 70+ years. You'd have to train individual graders for months just to become knowledgeable about even a small portion of all the soccer products that have been released over the years.

[Anish]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Let's be honest....the number of graders working for any of the TPG's who are knowledgeable enough about soccer cards/stickers to be able to catch even a small portion of fakes can probably be counted on one hand.

There are simply too many different soccer issues out there, especially when you start including stickers and include the entire history of soccer collectibles, which go back 70+ years. You'd have to train individual graders for months just to become knowledgeable about even a small portion of all the soccer products that have been released over the years.

True...but I’ve seen at least some research done by PSA and SGC. BGS has become the go to for any trimmed or fake football. Awfulllllllllllll

[fadster]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Let's be honest....the number of graders working for any of the TPG's who are knowledgeable enough about soccer cards/stickers to be able to catch even a small portion of fakes can probably be counted on one hand.

There are simply too many different soccer issues out there, especially when you start including stickers and include the entire history of soccer collectibles, which go back 70+ years. You'd have to train individual graders for months just to become knowledgeable about even a small portion of all the soccer products that have been released over the years.

Is not rocket science though, you're looking for exactly the same tell tale signs as everything else. The printing techniques are nothing special or confusing, the vast majorly of fakes would be weeded out with a quick look under magnification. If anything I would say the fake stickers are less sophisticated than most fake cards, I really struggle to understand who let these (and the recent Jesus and Lautauros) through. Maybe too many people jumping in looking to make a quick buck and not doing their due diligence, applying to perhaps both collectors and TPG's.

[auburn35]

Like PSA, it appears Beckett could really benefit from the forums research department.

Nice catch!

[k13]

Originally Posted by fadster

Is not rocket science though, you're looking for exactly the same tell tale signs as everything else. The printing techniques are nothing special or confusing, the vast majorly of fakes would be weeded out with a quick look under magnification. If anything I would say the fake stickers are less sophisticated than most fake cards, I really struggle to understand who let these (and the recent Jesus and Lautauros) through. Maybe too many people jumping in looking to make a quick buck and not doing their due diligence, applying to perhaps both collectors and TPG's.

They spend like 30 seconds on a card.
PSA can't even spot trimmed cards that are serial numbered.

gl with this.

[HOSoccer]

Originally Posted by fadster

Here are examples of a regular (PSA graded) front on top and one of the new BGS ones below. They don't look good, ink pattern wrong and slightly less detail. Next question is are the BGS slabs real (in which case shame on BGS for grading these) or fake.

Don't let the different color of this sticker (and CR's face) lead one to think a particular sticker is a fake because of it. This set is notorious for having some flaws including on CR's sticker, where on some stickers shows him with a tan and others, not so much. I've opened hundreds of packs from this set over the years and I have several CR rookies from these packs and can prove that his sticker has various colorings, making it more difficult to use this feature as the only means to distinguish between real and fakes, unfortunately...

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by HOSoccer

Don't let the different color of this sticker (and CR's face) lead one to think a particular sticker is a fake because of it. This set is notorious for having some flaws including on CR's sticker, where on some stickers shows him with a tan and others, not so much. I've opened hundreds of packs from this set over the years and I have several CR rookies from these packs and can prove that his sticker has various colorings, making it more difficult to use this feature as the only means to distinguish between real and fakes, unfortunately...

Go look at the stickers on eBay yourself if you’re the expert….they’re fake.

[HOSoccer]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Go look at the stickers on eBay yourself if you’re the expert….they’re fake.

Easy there...
I didn't say I was an expert or mentioned any specific stickers of not being fake.
I am just alerting to the fact that one shouldn't simply judge a sticker fake just because they have different tones in the color (of CR's face in particular). Again, I opened hundreds of packs and pulled several CR stickers with different tones of skin. That's all I was saying.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by HOSoccer

Easy there...
I didn't say I was an expert or mentioned any specific stickers of not being fake.
I am just alerting to the fact that one shouldn't simply judge a sticker fake just because they have different tones in the color (of CR's face in particular). Again, I opened hundreds of packs and pulled several CR stickers with different tones of skin. That's all I was saying.

Nobody is using just color.

[HOSoccer]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Nobody is using just color.

I simply responded to the post about the different ink pattern on the stickers...
Again, I've seen different ones when opening packs from this set, including Ronaldos.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by fadster

I really struggle to understand who let these (and the recent Jesus and Lautauros) through.

It's the newbies hired over the last few months to help the TPG's catch up with their backlogs, who have received minimal training, and who have been told to process as many cards/stickers as quickly as possible.

I'm guessing 99% of all graders employed by TPG's have never seen an authentic version of this sticker, let alone a fake.

Am constantly amazed by the assumption by collectors that graders are knowledgeable about everything that they grade. They're not.

There are far too many products out there across all sports and eras for graders to be knowledgeable about anything out of the mainstream.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by mfw13

It's the newbies hired over the last few months to help the TPG's catch up with their backlogs, who have received minimal training, and who have been told to process as many cards/stickers as quickly as possible.

I'm guessing 99% of all graders employed by TPG's have never seen an authentic version of this sticker, let alone a fake.

Am constantly amazed by the assumption by collectors that graders are knowledgeable about everything that they grade. They're not.

There are far too many products out there across all sports and eras for graders to be knowledgeable about anything out of the mainstream.

Last I heard (and it wasn’t that long ago), BGS didn’t even have 10 graders on staff.

[auburn35]

On the topic of BGS training and knowledge, here's some interesting testimony from Jeromy Murray (Beckett President).

Would be interesting to see those training references and which grading level(s) missed these Ronaldo's and all the other bogus stuff that makes it into BGS holders.
The "a little bit longer training" junior graders, "a little bit more intensive training" senior graders or a mix of both?

[k13]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Last I heard (and it wasn’t that long ago), BGS didn’t even have 10 graders on staff.

I heard PSA only has 2 graders on staff that's why they take years to grade your cards....