Logan Paul’s $3.5 Million ‘Base Set’ Case May Be Fake

[TarjetasBéisbol]

Wow, huge hit to BBCE owner Steve Hart if this is true.

https://www.pokebeach.com/2021/12/lo...icant-evidence

[KhalDrogo]

Yikes. Thanks for posting this. Appears Steve did not do his due diligence. Would love to hear from him how he deemed this authentic.

[Sonnys88]

After reading the article, it sounds like there isn't a ton of documentation on what original cases look like and if there were variations in the label printing and tape.

So, almost impossible to say whether it is a legit case without opening it and seeing what is inside.

Very strange story all around though...

[FBallHobbies]

https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPd6t5rmw/

[CanadianKid]

Yikes.

[773cards]

Logan needs to open it to verify. Would be crazy not to.

[jw8]

The fact that BCE did the authentication is a warning flag.

Edit: totally forgot that meelypops owned that case and sold it to shyne.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

After reading the article, it sounds like there isn't a ton of documentation on what original cases look like and if there were variations in the label printing and tape.

So, almost impossible to say whether it is a legit case without opening it and seeing what is inside.

Very strange story all around though...

The only reason there isn't a lot of documentation is that the number of surviving examples is probably in the single digits. But people know what these looked like, and there is a surviving legitimate example. And even if you were to excuse the numerous mistakes on the case, you can't excuse the bar code and terrible provenance.

I would love to hear why BBCE believed this example was legitimate. I would guess that what's inside the case are shrink wrapped 1st edition boxes with illegitimate packs inside. That way the scam is still protected if someone opened the case to see what was in there.

[cruiserdaddy7]

BBCE items should, but probably won't, take a huge hit. Talk about lack of credibility or knowledge if you can mess up something this big.

[auburn35]

Wow, will be interesting to see if/how BBCE responds.

Not the first time that Paul or someone he's associated with ended up buying counterfeit product.

$375,000 box of Pokémon cards turns out to be fake

https://www.polygon.com/2020/10/28/2...ney-logan-paul

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by auburn35

Wow, will be interesting to see if/how BBCE responds.

A well-known account on IG said that BBCE already has claimed zero responsibility. Quite shocking if true. What weight does a BBCE wrap hold if there's nothing to back their opinion? I also thought they've paid out previously for bad product.

[APOHBatAutos]

Pretty sweet gig to be the "authenticator" of sealed wax, only to be proven to have authenticated an item that anyone with any professional insight into authenticating the product would've known that it was tampered with.

Even more hilarious that said "authenticator" assumes zero responsibility when item turns out to be deemed inauthentic.

From now on BBCE should be banned from being an "authentication" service, and merely viewed as an opinion service. A joke opinion service at that.

[jw8]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

A well-known account on IG said that BBCE already has claimed zero responsibility. Quite shocking if true. What weight does a BBCE wrap hold if there's nothing to back their opinion? I also thought they've paid out previously for bad product.

I wasn't aware BBCE was authenticating for PSA, this situation opens up a lot of questions around their authentication procedures and credibility...PSA may be asking the questions to cover their ass from a liability perspective.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by jw8

I wasn't aware BBCE was authenticating for PSA, this situation opens up a lot of questions around their authentication procedures and credibility...PSA may be asking the questions to cover their ass from a liability perspective.

BBCE is the only authenticator for unopened packs for PSA. Any packs submitted get packaged and mailed to BBCE unless Steve Hart is visiting PSA in the near future. Then once validated or rejected, they get mailed back to PSA for grading and slabbing if real.

SGC and BGS do not have Grade Guarantees, and PSA does not have a Guarantee for autograph authentication. But even though they have a Grade Guarantee for altered/overgraded cards, they regularly choose not to pay it out assuming their customers won't sue them.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

BBCE is the only authenticator for unopened packs for PSA. Any packs submitted get packaged and mailed to BBCE unless Steve Hart is visiting PSA in the near future. Then once validated or rejected, they get mailed back to PSA for grading and slabbing if real.

SGC and BGS do not have Grade Guarantees, and PSA does not have a Guarantee for autograph authentication. But even though they have a Grade Guarantee for altered/overgraded cards, they regularly choose not to pay it out assuming their customers won't sue them.

Altered/over graded is not as objective as fake. I’ve never heard of a story where PSA slabbed a fake card and didn’t pay out if that card was purchased by a third party.

[cruiserdaddy7]

Originally Posted by APOHBatAutos

Pretty sweet gig to be the "authenticator" of sealed wax, only to be proven to have authenticated an item that anyone with any professional insight into authenticating the product would've known that it was tampered with.

Even more hilarious that said "authenticator" assumes zero responsibility when item turns out to be deemed inauthentic.

From now on BBCE should be banned from being an "authentication" service, and merely viewed as an opinion service. A joke opinion service at that.

BBCE is moving into wrapping modern day boxes as well that already have manufacturers wrap on them. Who would even trust their opinion on that now? Their brand is destroyed if this Pokémon case is indeed bad.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

A well-known account on IG said that BBCE already has claimed zero responsibility. Quite shocking if true. What weight does a BBCE wrap hold if there's nothing to back their opinion? I also thought they've paid out previously for bad product.

Do you have a link to that IG thread/post?

After seeing the current story, it's interesting to look back at the video of the BBCE authentication process (starts about 5 mins in) and the immediate sale, after that authentication. Some of the notable comments...tape is perfect...definitely hasn't been tampered with...willing to put his name on the line...

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Altered/over graded is not as objective as fake. I’ve never heard of a story where PSA slabbed a fake card and didn’t pay out if that card was purchased by a third party.

I have not either, yet. But there are plenty of notable examples of cards proven to be trimmed on this site that have gone back to PSA under a grade review and stayed in that holder (or reholdered with the same grade), while they had visible proof the card was trimmed from how it originally left the factory. Their cop-out was that they couldn't actually see any signs of alteration on the card.
Even if they can't detect it on the card, they had access to before images of the exact same cards with a 1/16" more on them.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by auburn35

Do you have a link to that IG thread/post?

After seeing the current story, it's interesting to look back at the video of the BBCE authentication process (starts about 5 mins in) and the immediate sale, after that authentication. Some of the notable comments...tape is perfect...definitely hasn't been tampered with...willing to put his name on the line...

It was by bostonauthentic in a pikazardcollector post that appears to have been deleted.

[Kobe101]

I saw in one of the videos BBCE basically admitted some fakes packs got missed and are in PSA slabs. PSA can’t be happy with that admission.

BBCE just ruined their business. They provide no guarantee and how do you not confirm the barcode.

[jmarascojr]

The videos of the purchase were on MEELYPOPS youtube channel and were very interesting to watch. From when he found out about it, waited for it to show up, inspected it, took it to BBCE and then the final sale.

I know zero about Pokemon, but something about the self-proclaimed Pokemon expert that was helping him with the purchase just rubbed me the wrong way.

Just came off like a used car salesman, even after the sale was done, like he kept wanting to reassure the guy it was real...

I believe he's the same guy that traded/sold the Charizard to SashaT that has now tanked in value.

[DynaEtch]

I also know zero about Pokémon but this is fascinating (unfortunately). In the video of the guy who researched this and produced the info, he called it the schrodingers cat of cards- instead of the box containing a cat that is in a quasi state of being alive and dead, it either contains millions of dollars of Pokémon boxes or possibly something worthless. Maybe junk, maybe a repack (or perhaps some middle ground of unlimited boxes of the base set?)

I admire his research and it does seem convincing- I watched both long YouTube videos on the topic. I do take issue with the term in the title of the 2nd video of “proof” it’s not legit. When I see the term proof, I think of the term as used in mathematics, a watertight, 100% certainty that cannot be wrong. I wouldn’t go there quite yet with this. Proof to me in this instance would be just opening the case and, say, finding junk wax baseball boxes or something- that’s proof. We don’t have that here. Just a well-constructed argument on anomalies on the outer case and a very sketchy provenance. But sketchy provenance in and of itself does not mean it has to be not legit. Since it’s not 100%, Im not sure the pitchforks should be coming out for BBCE quite yet…but I can see this affecting a lot and it’s already not a good look.

The problem is will we ever know for sure? Will the case ever be opened? Its such a weird situation because if I’m not mistaken, this is the only (supposedly, now somewhat doubtful) sealed case of 1st edition base set in existence, so I can see why people, specifically Logan wouldn’t want to open it. What is the premium of a sealed case here vs 6 unopened boxes? (I know nothing about this set or anything about Pokémon). It seems like the right thing to do is to open the case though- it’s the only way to know for sure what’s going on, and who would want to hold a box of this value not knowing if it’s legit or not- and surely you wouldn’t then go on to sell it to someone else as-is knowing what is known about this. I read a comment under the YouTube videos that was great, along the lines of: it’s partly on the collecting community, paying absurd premiums for sealed cases over unopened boxes, that you have situations like this that arise, and there is major reluctance to open a case and verify. But really, who wants to save and display a cardboard box sealed case anyway- the unopened boxes should be where it’s at, they actually display nicely, for one. I don’t get the absurd premium for a sealed case. Should companies like BBCE even be authenticating sealed cases, as they don’t physically open the cases when doing so, and all they are going off is an outer cardboard box. They can’t know for absolute sure what’s in that box, so how do you authenticate something like that, apparently just going off the condition of the tape etc.

On the topic of the box anomalies…like posted above, you just can’t be sure WOTC didn’t just have different variations of cases in the print runs, especially for something so little is known about and so few examples exist. I can’t say whether the non-faded text on the thermal printed paper is physically possible at all after 20 years. The bar code not matching the letters is questionable, but who knows, I’m sure bar code anomalies have existed before in products. The STOP tape makes you question, but again, could they just have used different for some variation cases. My question: if someone was going to the effort of replicating this case, and using this STOP tape, how do they overlook 2-bit mistakes like not making the S capitalized, missing the period, or the gap. Why wouldn’t the counterfeiter just have it be the same.

I don’t know, will be interesting to see how it plays out (which can’t really play out completely until the case is opened imo, which it may never be).

[Dobber2330]

PokeBeach is a pretty good source - sounds like there have been red flags all over this case since it was first listed.

[mjohnatgt]

This discussion reminds me a lot of the Shoeless Joe Jackson autographed photo authentication.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...light=shoeless

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Its such a weird situation because if I’m not mistaken, this is the only (supposedly, now somewhat doubtful) sealed case of 1st edition base set in existence, so I can see why people, specifically Logan wouldn’t want to open it.

Gary Haase owns a case that he opened one flap of to prove it was a legitimate case. I think most consider that “sealed”. People in the know in the Pokemon world also believe there are numerous other 1st Edition Base cases out there. Remember, people who own have a vested interest in making people believe there are only 1-2 cases left. Would this fake case have sold for $3.5M if there were 15 known examples?