Defenseman

booky · 05-28-2022, 10:45 PM

so right now i understand D-man do not attract much love from the hobby but.......
Adam Fox
Cale makar
Miro Heiskanen
Aaron Ekblad
who do ya buy?

forest · 05-28-2022, 10:58 PM

Always enjoyed collecting defenseman for minuscule prices compared to forwards.

I think Duncan Keith is undervalued. Two Norris Trophies, three Cups, and a Conn Smythe. Also, Erik Karlsson was Makar before Makar. To pick a guy from your list I'd say Fox, I think he's a future Hall of Famer

DetroitTN · 05-29-2022, 12:16 AM

Moritz Seider

booky · 05-29-2022, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forest

Always enjoyed collecting defenseman for minuscule prices compared to forwards.

I think Duncan Keith is undervalued. Two Norris Trophies, three Cups, and a Conn Smythe. Also, Erik Karlsson was Makar before Makar. To pick a guy from your list I'd say Fox, I think he's a future Hall of Famer

ya true man..

Roman Josi is legit

JanuaryRains · 05-29-2022, 09:33 AM

I think Makar is interesting if you're interested in high risk high reward plays. His prices are already high but if you think he'll keep up his play, win multiple Norris', and keep getting tons of attention and being called the next Bobby Orr then maybe his values keep climbing. There's a lot of serious money already being put into him.

The rest I'm lukewarm on. Fox already won a Norris, his values peaked earlier this season, and then have come down hard. It shows you what his ceiling is, sure, but also what he needs to do to sustain it and it's hard. He didn't have a bad season at all and his values halved. He's not a bad buy though. Ekblad, can't stay healthy, Norris contender when he is but the market and his health preclude him from consideration IMO. Heiskanen's probably the most interesting play, he's got a great ceiling still, showed incredible point production during the Cup run. IMO depends on if Klingberg is back and who the next coach is of the Stars. Out of the 4 I'd buy Heiskanen but that's mainly cause I love watching him play and think he'll have the 2nd best career out of the defencemen of his generation.

Other than those 4, I'd say a lot of active, possible future HOF defencemen are cheap which is what it is. I don't envision their cards being worth more either, just not what big $ wants to buy. Doughty and Keith are super cheap for what they've done. I love EK but the back 9 of his career definitely hurts his collectability since people just meme on his contract all day long. Hedman used to be a lot cheaper but even now are still relatively affordable. Josi as well, cards aren't too expensive at all either.

forest · 05-29-2022, 09:56 AM

Fox is one year removed from being the youngest defenseman to win the Norris since Bobby Orr, I’d hardly say we’ve seen his ceiling. Makar is the flashier player and his cards demand more money due to various factors, but I think Fox’s game will age better long term. Makar has the higher ceiling offensively, but his game is so centered around speed and quickness that I see his play being harder to sustain than Fox’s as they both age.

JanuaryRains · 05-29-2022, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forest

Fox is one year removed from being the youngest defenseman to win the Norris since Bobby Orr, I’d hardly say we’ve seen his ceiling. Makar is the flashier player and his cards demand more money due to various factors, but I think Fox’s game will age better long term. Makar has the higher ceiling offensively, but his game is so centered around speed and quickness that I see his play being harder to sustain than Fox’s as they both age.

I was talking about his hobby $ ceiling if that wasn't clear. I do not think we've seen the best of Fox on-ice but I also wouldn't be surprised if we did. He had a great season when he won his Norris trophy and plenty of players peak around 24 or younger and just sustain that level for a while. Fox was almost PPG this season and will place ~top 5 in Norris voting but his values declined quite a bit from earlier in the season. That's what I meant by we've seen his hobby ceiling, at least in the short-term.

As for the longer-term, I do agree that Makar will need to make more adjustments to his game than Fox to deal with aging. Makar's also not exactly an ironman so that's another concern. I agree Fox's game probably ages a bit better but greats figure out a way and I think Makar will too.

anusinha · 05-29-2022, 11:22 AM

Makar will probably be the best player overall but his prices are pretty high relatively. At least his young guns are, his other stuff is pretty affordable.

DetroitTN · 05-30-2022, 12:56 AM

Mike Green had a great, albeit short-lived, run as a too offensive defenseman. Looking at 80s and 90s stats, the defenseman were such better scorers and point producers than today's defenseman. Different era, of course. It's just neat to look back at what used to be. It looks like Makar, as long as he stays healthy, should have a good enough career to stay relevant for a while. Brent Burns level at worst, is my guess. Burns had a brief collectable phase in the hobby and held on to a near-great career on ice

JanuaryRains · 05-30-2022, 09:55 AM

Mike Green! Peak Mike Green was a ton of fun to watch however short it was. Really good player for sure, that 31 goal season was unreal for me as a kid.

DetroitTN · 05-30-2022, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JanuaryRains

Mike Green! Peak Mike Green was a ton of fun to watch however short it was. Really good player for sure, that 31 goal season was unreal for me as a kid.

He was a shell as a Red Wing (unfortunately) but Caps Green was briefly great for sure. That season in particular was awesome as a hockey fan

forest · 05-30-2022, 10:20 PM

Fox is third in playoff scoring behind McDavid and Draisaitl. Nobody seems to be talking about it much. For whatever reason, he just doesn't get the attention that Makar does

Fox PSA 10 Young Guns $200
Makar PSA 10 Young Guns $725

SilverSurfer77 · 05-30-2022, 10:26 PM

Trouba!

DetroitTN · 05-30-2022, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forest

Fox is third in playoff scoring behind McDavid and Draisaitl. Nobody seems to be talking about it much. For whatever reason, he just doesn't get the attention that Makar does

Fox PSA 10 Young Guns $200
Makar PSA 10 Young Guns $725

That's strange since New York is, well, New York and known worldwide

richo · 05-31-2022, 03:27 AM

Adam Fox is vey good.

jmcca170 · 06-01-2022, 08:01 PM

I like collecting Werenski. Some of my favorites

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jmcca170 · 06-01-2022, 08:02 PM

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jmcca170 · 06-01-2022, 08:02 PM

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jmcca170 · 06-01-2022, 08:03 PM

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

irv · 06-01-2022, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forest

Fox is third in playoff scoring behind McDavid and Draisaitl. Nobody seems to be talking about it much. For whatever reason, he just doesn't get the attention that Makar does

Fox PSA 10 Young Guns $200
Makar PSA 10 Young Guns $725

I like both players. Fox just isn't as flashy and not quite as good, but he's right up there nonetheless.

DetroitTN · 06-01-2022, 09:30 PM

I really like the junk wax era hockey cards, so Chelios, Housley, and Coffey are fun to collect. They could outscore today's top scorers. Their stats are simply gross

rrk100 · 06-01-2022, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irv

I like both players. Fox just isn't as flashy and not quite as good, but he's right up there nonetheless.

I would say that this is very accurate. Makar has that quickness and flashy speed. Watching Fox, I would say that he has some of the best decision-making when he has the puck that I have ever seen a player have. Rarely does he look like he forces a play. Super efficient.

Maybe Makar has these same qualities, I just haven’t watched enough Avs games to really assess (beyond his YouTube highlight plays).

thewesdub · 06-02-2022, 01:35 PM

I'm a Stars fan and a Miro guy through and through. I think he was held back a bit this last year because of Bowness' system, so I'm eager to see what a new coach can unleash.

As for his hobby love...He's going to always be over-shadowed by Fox and Makar. Any shot at a major award will be slim because he plays in Dallas, despite being on the same level as those guys. There are a lot of Zubov parallels for him. I don't mind as long as he helps win the team games.

forest · 06-02-2022, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irv

I like both players. Fox just isn't as flashy and not quite as good, but he's right up there nonetheless.

No arguments from me, I can totally see why the hobby prefers Makar. Makar's big edge on Fox is goal scoring which is a big deal in the hobby. But I'm curious to see what happens to their card values in the long run if Fox ends up having the better career of the two (a realistic possibility). Would Makar's flashiness be enough to keep his values above Fox in that scenario? It'll be interesting because their RCs are from the same year.

aro13 · 06-02-2022, 07:05 PM

From your list I would take Makar.

I collect McAvoy personally but I am a Bruins fan.

Agreed with the poster who touted Duncan Keith as being undervalued. Aside from his obvious credentials his salary against the salary cap for years was so low that it allowed the Hawks to overspend elsewhere.

05-28-2022, 10:45 PM	#1
booky Member Join Date: Dec 2021 Posts: 115	Defenseman so right now i understand D-man do not attract much love from the hobby but....... Adam Fox Cale makar Miro Heiskanen Aaron Ekblad who do ya buy?

05-28-2022, 10:58 PM	#2
forest Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: USA Posts: 996	Always enjoyed collecting defenseman for minuscule prices compared to forwards. I think Duncan Keith is undervalued. Two Norris Trophies, three Cups, and a Conn Smythe. Also, Erik Karlsson was Makar before Makar. To pick a guy from your list I'd say Fox, I think he's a future Hall of Famer Last edited by forest; 05-28-2022 at 11:02 PM.

05-29-2022, 12:16 AM	#3
DetroitTN Member Join Date: Mar 2022 Posts: 544	Moritz Seider __________________ True adulthood means knowing the differences between "your" and "you're", "to" and "too", & "their", "they're", and "there".

05-30-2022, 12:56 AM	#9
DetroitTN Member Join Date: Mar 2022 Posts: 544	Mike Green had a great, albeit short-lived, run as a too offensive defenseman. Looking at 80s and 90s stats, the defenseman were such better scorers and point producers than today's defenseman. Different era, of course. It's just neat to look back at what used to be. It looks like Makar, as long as he stays healthy, should have a good enough career to stay relevant for a while. Brent Burns level at worst, is my guess. Burns had a brief collectable phase in the hobby and held on to a near-great career on ice __________________ True adulthood means knowing the differences between "your" and "you're", "to" and "too", & "their", "they're", and "there".

05-30-2022, 10:20 PM	#12
forest Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: USA Posts: 996	Fox is third in playoff scoring behind McDavid and Draisaitl. Nobody seems to be talking about it much. For whatever reason, he just doesn't get the attention that Makar does Fox PSA 10 Young Guns $200 Makar PSA 10 Young Guns $725 Last edited by forest; 05-30-2022 at 10:25 PM.

05-29-2022, 09:33 AM	#5
JanuaryRains Member Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 296	I think Makar is interesting if you're interested in high risk high reward plays. His prices are already high but if you think he'll keep up his play, win multiple Norris', and keep getting tons of attention and being called the next Bobby Orr then maybe his values keep climbing. There's a lot of serious money already being put into him. The rest I'm lukewarm on. Fox already won a Norris, his values peaked earlier this season, and then have come down hard. It shows you what his ceiling is, sure, but also what he needs to do to sustain it and it's hard. He didn't have a bad season at all and his values halved. He's not a bad buy though. Ekblad, can't stay healthy, Norris contender when he is but the market and his health preclude him from consideration IMO. Heiskanen's probably the most interesting play, he's got a great ceiling still, showed incredible point production during the Cup run. IMO depends on if Klingberg is back and who the next coach is of the Stars. Out of the 4 I'd buy Heiskanen but that's mainly cause I love watching him play and think he'll have the 2nd best career out of the defencemen of his generation. Other than those 4, I'd say a lot of active, possible future HOF defencemen are cheap which is what it is. I don't envision their cards being worth more either, just not what big $ wants to buy. Doughty and Keith are super cheap for what they've done. I love EK but the back 9 of his career definitely hurts his collectability since people just meme on his contract all day long. Hedman used to be a lot cheaper but even now are still relatively affordable. Josi as well, cards aren't too expensive at all either.

05-29-2022, 09:56 AM	#6
forest Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: USA Posts: 996	Fox is one year removed from being the youngest defenseman to win the Norris since Bobby Orr, I’d hardly say we’ve seen his ceiling. Makar is the flashier player and his cards demand more money due to various factors, but I think Fox’s game will age better long term. Makar has the higher ceiling offensively, but his game is so centered around speed and quickness that I see his play being harder to sustain than Fox’s as they both age.

05-29-2022, 11:22 AM	#8
anusinha Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 13,556	Makar will probably be the best player overall but his prices are pretty high relatively. At least his young guns are, his other stuff is pretty affordable.

05-30-2022, 09:55 AM	#10
JanuaryRains Member Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 296	Mike Green! Peak Mike Green was a ton of fun to watch however short it was. Really good player for sure, that 31 goal season was unreal for me as a kid.

05-30-2022, 10:26 PM	#13
SilverSurfer77 Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 171	Trouba!

05-31-2022, 03:27 AM	#15
richo Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: UK Posts: 2,236	Adam Fox is vey good.

06-01-2022, 08:01 PM	#16
jmcca170 Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 803	I like collecting Werenski. Some of my favorites Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

06-01-2022, 08:02 PM	#17
jmcca170 Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 803	Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

06-01-2022, 08:03 PM	#19
jmcca170 Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 803	Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

06-01-2022, 09:30 PM	#21
DetroitTN Member Join Date: Mar 2022 Posts: 544	I really like the junk wax era hockey cards, so Chelios, Housley, and Coffey are fun to collect. They could outscore today's top scorers. Their stats are simply gross __________________ True adulthood means knowing the differences between "your" and "you're", "to" and "too", & "their", "they're", and "there".

06-02-2022, 01:35 PM	#23
thewesdub Member Join Date: Apr 2021 Location: Texas Posts: 672	I'm a Stars fan and a Miro guy through and through. I think he was held back a bit this last year because of Bowness' system, so I'm eager to see what a new coach can unleash. As for his hobby love...He's going to always be over-shadowed by Fox and Makar. Any shot at a major award will be slim because he plays in Dallas, despite being on the same level as those guys. There are a lot of Zubov parallels for him. I don't mind as long as he helps win the team games. __________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/194088889@N04/albums

06-02-2022, 07:05 PM	#25
aro13 Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 972	Keith From your list I would take Makar. I collect McAvoy personally but I am a Bruins fan. Agreed with the poster who touted Duncan Keith as being undervalued. Aside from his obvious credentials his salary against the salary cap for years was so low that it allowed the Hawks to overspend elsewhere.