eBay Authenticity Guarantee Service - Failed inspection or is something else going on

[punctilious]

I purchased this card (https://www.ebay.com/itm/364039188347) (2005 Topps Chrome Gold XFractor Aaron Rodgers PSA 9)on eBay this week (Monday). Card was paid for on Tuesday morning. Tracking number assigned to the auction later that day. I've kept tabs on the tracking and, to date, there is no tracking detail on either ebay or the FedEx website.
This morning (Thursday) when checking tracking info on eBay the following message was displayed :

Tuesday
Nov 29
Estimated delivery

Your item did not pass inspection.
It's being returned to the seller.
Shipped
Tue, Nov 15
Item returned
Going to eBay vault
Estimated delivery
Tue, Nov 29
FedEx: 390671492556
Hide tracking details
Item failed inspection
Nov 15, 2022
9:42am PST
Shipment information sent to FedEx - The delivery date may be updated when FedEx receives the package.
07014
Nov 15, 2022
10:24am

I found this odd considering it had only been 1 day. This is the first time I've experienced an inspection failure with the eBay authentication service so thought I'd inquire with an eBay rep to get more detail. I'm no conspiracy theorist but in this case, something didn't feel right so thought I'd share with fellow BO members.

I'll post the chat details here shortly.

[TimBuckTwo]

Hope you can get it solved.

I am not a fan of this system. I don't want anyone touching and potentially damaging my card corners placing into a plastic sleeve.

Thanks for nothing ebay

[punctilious]

Chat details:

Hi *****! I'm eBay's automated assistant that can help you resolve any buying, selling, or account issues.
I can guide you to the answer or info you need, or get you to an agent who can.
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Contact an agent
Assistant
5:55 am
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Sure, *****! So I can connect you with the right agent, tell me in a few words how we can help.
291 characters used of 1500 allowed291 / 1500
Continue Stop this
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It’ll be about 1 minute until an agent’s free. Is that OK?
Yes

No
Assistant
Yes
Got it! One of our agents will be with you in about 1 minute.
You can leave and try again later if you're unable to wait, *****.
Leave the queue
Assistant
5:56 am
Kris Pauline has joined the conversation
Hi punctilious1, this is Kris Pauline, one of my favourite colleagues. I'll leave you both to it, and I'll be back when you guys are done.
Assistant
Hello, welcome to eBay - my name is Pauline. Please allow me a few moments to review your details.
Kris Pauline
no prob, thanks
Are you referring to the item that you purchase last 14th?
Kris Pauline
that is correct
To have this resolved, we will be needing the assistance of our specialized team and in order to further assist you, I need to transfer you directly to them. I will be documenting this so you do not have to repeat yourself again. Please stay connected.
Kris Pauline
ok, thank you
6:00 am
TRISHA has joined the conversation
Hi *****, my name is Trisha. Please allow me a few moments to catch up on your conversation so far.
TRISHA
May I have your first and last name?
TRISHA
*******
Hi, *****. Nice to meet you. Just to make sure we're on the same page, you purchased an item that has authentication but got returned from authentication inspection or process, is that right?
TRISHA
I may have missed your response?
TRISHA
he
sorry
it's not letting me send large batches of text
I understand, no worries
TRISHA
the tracking number assigned to the purchase has no tracking detail
yet today when I checked status on ebay it shows it failed inspection and is being returned which made no sense to me
FedEx Tracking nO. 390671492556
I understand. For this case, Let me connect you to our Authenticity Guarantee Team handling this kind of issue.
TRISHA
Should I connect you over now?
TRISHA
yes. please, thanks
Please stay connected while I transfer you to my colleague who will assist you further. This may take a few moments, thank you for your patience.
TRISHA
ok
6:07 am
Liz has joined the conversation
Hello and good morning! Am I speaking with *****?
Liz
Good morning Liz, yes you are
Hello *****! I'll be helping you with your concern today and from briefly reading through the conversation with the previous agent, it looks like this is about an item that is being returned back to you for a failed authenticaton, is that correct?
Liz
This is a card I purchased so no, the card I'm assuming would be returned to the seller
My apologies and yes the card would get returned back to the seller with a full refund back to you.
Liz
Again, the card was purchased 3 days ago and the tracking number assigned never had any tracking detail yet it failed inspection. I just don't understand how that is posisble
How can a card that never left be rejected? Can you provide more detail?
was it sent to the wrong address by mistake?
Of course! It would be my pleasure. Is this for the 2005 Topps Chrome Auto Gold Xfractor # 190 #080/399 Aaron Rodgers PSA 9 card?
Liz
that is correct
The card is a graded PSA 9, not raw, so seems pretty easy to validate. The seller is one of the largest seller's on ebay and reputable
Thank you for verifing that. Give me just a moment and I'll be right back
Liz
take your time
thx
Thank you so much for waiting. They did receive the card yesterday even though FedEx hasn't updated their tracking; the reason for the return is that there is a significant internal crack on the backside of the card holder that wasn't pictured on the listing.
Liz
may I see the picture of that crack?
I would expect they document these things and sharing with the seller/purchaser formally within Ebay would make sense and avoid either side having to chase this information down.
Perhaps I'm jumping the gun and this will happen, it's just the first time I've experienced a "failure" using this service
The card is already being shipped back to the seller but I can request it.
Liz
The authenticator does reach out to the seller to let them know.
Liz
when will I get my refund?
I've sent in the request but this can take 24 hours.
Liz
pretty disappointing
I did escalate it though so it may be sooner.
Liz
You should have a refund within 24-48 hours and that will be applied back to the payment method that you used to purchase the item.
Liz
I would expect the card will not show up for sale on Ebay again until the crack is rectified
I will be keeping an eye open for this seller to repost the card on ebay.
I would expect the same auth. guarantee be applied if they attempt to resale, does ebay prevent a resale of a card with a known defect?
I understand but we want you to be 100% satisfied with the purchase that you made. If the seller had taken a picture of the back of it or had it in his description then you were acknowledging that you were fine with it by purchasing it and the card would have been sent to you without any questions.
Liz
I get that
Yes he will be able to relist it
Liz
So will this card be in an endless loop?
if auth. guarantee service is set by default how could it ever pass?
I don't believe so since it looks like that was the only issues.
Liz
As long as a seller describes the item accurately and lists any defects, however minor, the cards will pass.
Liz
I'm still perplexed at how a fedex tracking no. can be assigned but not be updated on either ebay or the fedex site. I ship thousands of packages a year and have never seen that happen.
I am sorry that this transaction didn't go through for you and I hope you understand why the card is being returned. We would have done it for any other buyer as well.
Liz
where is the authentication service located relative to the location of the seller?
I understand about the tracking and I would be as well. I agree that it's never been an issue but I've seen it happen a few times now and it's with other carriers as well with USPS taking the lead on that.
Liz
where was the authentication service being conducted? I see the shipper was located in Clifton, NJ
I paid for the card on the 15th so the card would have had to ship that same day and arrive at authentication the next day
and be inspected that day in order to be rejected. Seems odd
It's 4,000 miles..
Liz
can you provide me the address for the authenticator this was shipped to? On the west coast it's here close by me in Santa Ana, CA
So you're saying this card would have been shipped Tuesday to an authenticator 4000 miles away and be inspected and rejected within 1 day?
it's 1600 St. Andrews Place Santa Ana, CA 92705
Liz
so let me get this straight. The card shipped on Tue this week to Santa Ana, CA?
It's possible especially with the holiday season here.
Liz
It's early Thu am on the west coast and it's already failed authentication. Are you sure you have the details corect?
According to the tracking number assigned the service level selected was FedEx Ground.
I'm afraid I don't know any of the information from FedEx because it doesn't have any information but the authenticator's scan of the item shows that it was delivered to them yesterday. The card is the same the item number and authentication code matches to your item.
Liz
It just doesn't add up.

I understand because it does seem odd but the tracking that they scanned in is the exact same as the seller's. I checked it several times to make sure that it was the same.
Liz

was this a vault purchase?
no, this was not in the seller's vault.
Liz
I've bubbled up your concern to our shipping department that works with the carriers so that we can get them to update the information or at the very least find out what happened.

Is there anything else that I can further assist you with?
Liz
can you provide me with the tracking number for the return shipment with the card going back to the seller please?
regrettably, for security reasons, I would not be able to.
Liz
security reasons? The only information available would be the shipper or receiver address which shouldn't be private considering you said the authenticator is in Santa Ana which I already have and the shipper is Probstein

Sir, I am sorry and I understand but it's one of our policies.
Liz

If there is nothing else that I can help you with, I will let you continue your day. I do want you to know that I'll also bubble up this chat to our executive team to have them review it and hopefully make the shipping information or authentication process better for our members.
Liz

*****, are you there?
Liz
I am here
Is there anything else that I can help you with?
Liz
that will. be all for now, thanks
good day

[KhalDrogo]

Looks like you got your answer. The “reputable” probstein selling a card with a big crack and not disclosing it. Great operation he has.

[punctilious]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Looks like you got your answer. The “reputable” probstein selling a card with a big crack and not disclosing it. Great operation he has.

Yeah, but something is fishy here with respect to the service eBay is offering.
Is there collusion going on between these 2 parties? Perhaps I'm jumping the gun but it just feels wrong...

So to recap in summary form, here's the rundown:

Card purchased Monday evening Nov 14th
Payment sent Tuesday morning Nov 15th
Tracking number assigned afternoon Nov 16th
Authentication failed Thursday morning Nov 17th

Tracking number assigned shows it was sent Ground from Probstein (Clifton, NJ) to PSA auth. service in Santa Ana, CA yet no scans showing the package has moved.

I'll be keeping an eye out for this card to pop up again.

[punctilious]

Does it surprise me that a seller failed to note a defect, not really... and I get that this service is meant to protect buyers from this behavior. I'm interested to see how Probstein handles this, I will be watching this closely.

[KhalDrogo]

It’s possible probstein noted the issue when they went to package the card, contacted eBay, and eBay failed the card without it needing to go to PSA. Not sure what they would be colluding on here.

[thewesdub]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why is the process fishy if it worked as intended?

[Grid]

Originally Posted by punctilious

Yeah, but something is fishy here with respect to the service eBay is offering.
Is there collusion going on between these 2 parties? Perhaps I'm jumping the gun but it just feels wrong...

So to recap in summary form, here's the rundown:

Card purchased Monday evening Nov 14th
Payment sent Tuesday morning Nov 15th
Tracking number assigned afternoon Nov 16th
Authentication failed Thursday morning Nov 17th

Tracking number assigned shows it was sent Ground from Probstein (Clifton, NJ) to PSA auth. service in Santa Ana, CA yet no scans showing the package has moved.

I'll be keeping an eye out for this card to pop up again.

This one is easy. Probstein forgot to shill the auction high enough. Since they are an eBay preferred dealer, they contacted the Authority Service, and said "We noticed a big crack on the back of the case, so we are not going to process this through".

The Authority Service says OK, no need to mail it to us, for us to mail it back to you. And the refund process is started.

Probstein will then relist the card, remember to shill it high enough the next time. And if anyone questions why it was sold again, they will just say the last buyer didn't pay. And if they get called out for the "crack" they can just say "Opps, we forgot about that, but we paid to reholder it"

[Grid]

Its also worth noting, that they "sold" 229/399 on Oct 10th for $4,400. And once more on Oct 24th for only $2,900. I wouldnt be shocked if they were protecting the seller from this most recent $3500 sale

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38514943350...p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/37430954516...p2047675.l2557

[punctilious]

I sent a message to Probstein earlier regarding this issue, waiting for a response from them.

[meandsharon11]

I have had eBay authentication fail a card, but that was because the seller listed it wrong. I still got the card.

If they send back to seller it’s because there’s something wrong with the card. It’s a 3rd part pre inspection so you don’t get stuck with a card because of he said she said with condition.

I say it saved you from getting the run around. Probstein will have to refund your money.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by meandsharon11

I have had eBay authentication fail a card, but that was because the seller listed it wrong. I still got the card.

If they send back to seller it’s because there’s something wrong with the card. It’s a 3rd part pre inspection so you don’t get stuck with a card because of he said she said with condition.

I say it saved you from getting the run around. Probstein will have to refund your money.

I dont think that was the point of this thread. We understand how the Authentication process works. What was so strange about this one, was the timing.

Payment sent Tuesday morning Nov 15th
Tracking number assigned afternoon Nov 16th
Authentication failed Thursday morning Nov 17th

Card paid on Tuesday, and shipped later in the afternoon the next day. By the following morning, not only did the card magically show up at the Authentication place. But they had time to immediately get to that package and flunk the card.

All while FedEx shows it wasn't even accepted yet, let alone moving through their network.

If dealers can somehow use this new process, to not have to go through with a sale. That can be a big issue.

[punctilious]

New message from: probstein123 (1,073,530SILVER_SHOOTING_STAR Star)
Unfortunately the tracking for these types of orders do not always update appropriately.
This order was sent out and if the inspection did fail you will be refunded and the card
will be return back to us.

[majestik101]

And this is reason #1,294 why I will NEVER purchase anything from Probstein

[Grid]

Originally Posted by punctilious

New message from: probstein123 (1,073,530SILVER_SHOOTING_STAR Star)
Unfortunately the tracking for these types of orders do not always update appropriately.
This order was sent out and if the inspection did fail you will be refunded and the card
will be return back to us.

I agree that tracking doesn't always update. But this isn't a matter of it not showing a scan along the way. Look at what your tracking shows.

They made a label, which is how they assigned one to your order per ebays rules. But thats it. New Jersey is where Probstein is. The package was going to California. Fedex never took possession on that package, let alone get it to the Authenticity place. And per ebay rules, the Authenticity place needs to personally sign for these.

This delivery does have signature confirmation on it, but it was never signed for, as it never went anywhere.

From
Clifton, NJ US
Label Created
11/15/2022 10:42 AM


390671492556

[meandsharon11]

Originally Posted by Grid

I dont think that was the point of this thread. We understand how the Authentication process works. What was so strange about this one, was the timing.

Payment sent Tuesday morning Nov 15th
Tracking number assigned afternoon Nov 16th
Authentication failed Thursday morning Nov 17th

Card paid on Tuesday, and shipped later in the afternoon the next day. By the following morning, not only did the card magically show up at the Authentication place. But they had time to immediately get to that package and flunk the card.

All while FedEx shows it wasn't even accepted yet, let alone moving through their network.

If dealers can somehow use this new process, to not have to go through with a sale. That can be a big issue.

I had a similar situation with mine, but i got the card since it wasn’t damaged or misrepresented.

What I’m saying is it’s pointless for a seller to do that. FEDEX tracking is unreliable as was with mine, and with a card I’m currently waiting on now. FedEx tracking is one thing. In order to have a card returned it has to be misrepresented in some form or another. No seller is going to start a listing and intentionally misrepresent it so authentication will reject it, before they know what it will sell for. Once it’s shipped to the authenticator, the seller can’t stop shipping.

The seller can intentionally send the wrong card, but if that becomes a pattern then eBay will restrict the sellers account.

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by punctilious

I sent a message to Probstein earlier regarding this issue, waiting for a response from them.

With them selling tens of thousands of items a month, that likely won't happen

edit; wow, you received a response. I am amazed

[Grid]

Originally Posted by meandsharon11

I had a similar situation with mine, but i got the card since it wasn’t damaged or misrepresented.

What I’m saying is it’s pointless for a seller to do that. FEDEX tracking is unreliable as was with mine, and with a card I’m currently waiting on now. FedEx tracking is one thing. In order to have a card returned it has to be misrepresented in some form or another. No seller is going to start a listing and intentionally misrepresent it so authentication will reject it, before they know what it will sell for. Once it’s shipped to the authenticator, the seller can’t stop shipping.

The seller can intentionally send the wrong card, but if that becomes a pattern then eBay will restrict the sellers account.

And I am saying, just a guess of course, that the seller did not like the price the auction ended at. Since they sold the same card (different serial number) 3 weeks prior, for $1,000 more. That maybe they just told the Authenticity Guarantee Place, that the case was broken.

And that was how they got out of the sale. It should have taken 2 days to get there. 1 or 2 days to go through review. And yet in 16 hours it went from shipping label printed to failing.

All without the package ever being picked up, so the tracking shows.

[RustyDawg37]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

It’s possible probstein noted the issue when they went to package the card, contacted eBay, and eBay failed the card without it needing to go to PSA. Not sure what they would be colluding on here.

Not actually following through with the authenticity guaranteed program is a huge red flag on both sides. Ebay may be giving soft service to probstein for some reason. They have already made the example of PWCC, no need to destroy another huge chunk of their trading card income.

For what its worth, It is possible it was shipped next day service and didnt get scanned. Likely? Very much no, but still possible. I am going to go out on a limb here and say you will never see pictures of this "crack".

[punctilious]

I’ll provide an update once the sale is formally canceled and I receive a subsequent refund.
Once this happens I will be looking for this particular card to show up at auction, specifically on eBay.

To be clear, if this was simply an inspection fail due to a significant crack found on the reverse side of the slab (that was not mentioned in the listing nor pictured) then I would have no qualms with eBay and be thankful for the service provided. Something else is going on here which is why I chose to share on a forum I knew was frequented by fellow hobbyists/collectors.

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by Grid

I agree that tracking doesn't always update. But this isn't a matter of it not showing a scan along the way. Look at what your tracking shows.

They made a label, which is how they assigned one to your order per ebays rules. But thats it. New Jersey is where Probstein is. The package was going to California. Fedex never took possession on that package, let alone get it to the Authenticity place. And per ebay rules, the Authenticity place needs to personally sign for these.

This delivery does have signature confirmation on it, but it was never signed for, as it never went anywhere.

From
Clifton, NJ US
Label Created
11/15/2022 10:42 AM


390671492556

You are right on it here -- Probstein's response is acting like it is an ESE envelope for a $5 card. This is supposed to be "Secured Delivery" to the AG.

Maybe they batch them all together and put them in one big overnight FedEx box? Only other explanation I can think of.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

You are right on it here -- Probstein's response is acting like it is an ESE envelope for a $5 card. This is supposed to be "Secured Delivery" to the AG.

Maybe they batch them all together and put them in one big overnight FedEx box? Only other explanation I can think of.

And if they batch them all out at once, and put them all into one big box. That would just produce multiples of dummy tracking info from Probstein. And the true tracking wouldnt be assigned to any of those sales.

Which itself would be a big problem. As the card could legit get lost, and Probstein could simply say "No, that was just fake tracking. Here is the real tracking, and give some different number as "proof" it made its way there.

And if they did dump everything into one box, they would be putting all their high dollar sales into one shipment. And if that ended up lost, its the proverbial "eggs in one basket"

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by Grid

And if they batch them all out at once, and put them all into one big box. That would just produce multiples of dummy tracking info from Probstein. And the true tracking wouldnt be assigned to any of those sales.

Which itself would be a big problem. As the card could legit get lost, and Probstein could simply say "No, that was just fake tracking. Here is the real tracking, and give some different number as "proof" it made its way there.

And if they did dump everything into one box, they would be putting all their high dollar sales into one shipment. And if that ended up lost, its the proverbial "eggs in one basket"

Agree with all of your points; Probstein and his staff don't strike me as caring either way for the customers.

With that said, it's possible with AG, and their volume, that they consolidate what is being sent to AG. We also don't know how eBay and AG treat large volume sellers like Probstein. They could also be above the rules as they sell hundreds a day.

Is it likely they individually wrap or batch orders and place them in one box? Not likely, but certainly possible given the bizarre facts we have so far. That would explain how it could have arrived and been rejected without a scan on that individual tracking number. Logistically, that would make it easier to ship and receive for AG and Probstein alike.

[Archangel1775]

I would imagine the card went overnight to CA with how expensive it is. It also makes sense they'd send a large, expensively insured box opposed to individual items. Isn't there a NY/NJ PSA office now? Maybe they hired someone to handle the East Coast AG items? If it's just making sure it's a legit slab and sealed, there wouldn't be much to it as they wouldn't be grading the items.