Where do PRE Prospect cards fall?

[ScooterD]

We are getting to the point (and I feel old), that there are some Bowman, Topps, and UD (AFLAC, USA, Perfect Game) cards that of players that have made careers for themselves. Kershaw, Verlander, Scherzer, McCutchen, Freeman, Correira, and Bregman’s first issues were in these sets.

The prospect/RC conversation is well-documented, but these cards don’t seem to have been considered in that. Are they to their own species and where do they fall on the totem poll?

EDIT - Forgot Ohtani and other WBC cards.

[ThoseBackPages]

oh man, thats a toughie

they tend to show the player in their counties uniform, which in america doesnt mean much for cards. so that doesnt help.

i think they will stay a very niche section of the hobby

[jdhaugh11]

They are certainly worth less than their first Bowman or actual rookie cards, but to me they should be worth more than 2nd or 3rd year prospect cards.
To me the first Leaf All-American, or USA or minor league cards from the team stadiums should have some decent value because they were their first tradeable card.

I was going to post and ask about some 2010 Cedar Rapids Kernel cards of Mike Trout that I have. They don't sell for very much, so not sure if they are reprints or homemade cards or what?

[MoreToppsPlease]

As with anything else, if all profit has been squeezed from prospects, look for flippers to try to introduce new or expand existing pre-prospect avenues for income.

So where something falls today won’t necessarily be where it falls tomorrow. It’s always about opportunism/attempting to create opportunity here.

[oddstuff]

Originally Posted by jdhaugh11

They are certainly worth less than their first Bowman or actual rookie cards, but to me they should be worth more than 2nd or 3rd year prospect cards.
To me the first Leaf All-American, or USA or minor league cards from the team stadiums should have some decent value because they were their first tradeable card.

I was going to post and ask about some 2010 Cedar Rapids Kernel cards of Mike Trout that I have. They don't sell for very much, so not sure if they are reprints or homemade cards or what?

Sounds like your have the Trout cards that were printed in single format (not part of the original team sets)/mass printed in 2011 or later and were not a part of the original 2010 Cedar Rapids team sets so they were not Trout's first minor league issues. PSA unfortunately graded those as 2010 instead of 2011.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

As with anything else, if all profit has been squeezed from prospects, look for flippers to try to introduce new or expand existing pre-prospect avenues for income.

So where something falls today won’t necessarily be where it falls tomorrow. It’s always about opportunism/attempting to create opportunity here.

Wait - just an example.

We have Bryce Harper autos from 2009 (UD USA), 2010 Bowman (USA - labeled 1st bowman), 2011 Bowman (also labeled 1st Bowman), and 2012 Bowman/Topps RCs.

Do any of the pre-prospect cards sell for more than the prospect and/or RCs? I think the 2010s autos and parallels (maybe) do…. So we don’t have to wait for anyone to squeeze profit from anything. This raises the question.

Do 2017 Bowman WBC Ohtani’s sell for more than congruent RCs?

I don’t have all these answers - that’s why I ask the question and for examples supporting such. If the answer is “it depends,” that’s fine. But if a blanket statement is supported (as some would suggest), I want to make sure that it’s an infallible and true statement.

[BigL7370]

They are just 'oddities' where if you collect the player in a die-hard sense, you find them neat to have, especially when before some of these guys became superstars.

However the better cards from these will never be worth as much as their licensed issued when they became pros - even if they came out much earlier.

[NYBBFAN]

Harper’s Bowman Chrome USA card is still his best pre-RC in my opinion. Ohtani’s WBC cards are nice too. I think it’s all in the collector preference, and that varies per player.

[Raleigh504]

I think the issue with a lot of the USA ones and other non-Topps issued cards is that there isn't some sort of logo on it. For instance, Panini USA baseball (love the product as in opening it because of the value and the hit in each pack) drops the ball with not having any designation that it is their first trading card. If they were to put a 1st logo on the players first card within the USA baseball set, then I think it would command for more than it does now, but not as much as a 1st Bowman or RC. Almost like a 2nd to 3rd option for the players rookie card.

[clsports]

Originally Posted by jdhaugh11

I was going to post and ask about some 2010 Cedar Rapids Kernel cards of Mike Trout that I have. They don't sell for very much, so not sure if they are reprints or homemade cards or what?

There are 2010 Cedar Rapids Kernels Team Issued sets and a very rare Cedar Rapids Kernels DAV SGA team set that were officially licensed by MiLB and the Cedar Rapids Kernels. These all hold great value.

There are however, 3 different colored border cards (red, blue, green) that claim to be Cedar Rapids Kernels issued cards, but these are NOT LICENSED and I have no idea who made these cards, but they exist in massive quantities and are basically worth very little. I also believe they were printed in 2011 or later, but claim to be from 2010. Not true.

You also need to be aware of REPRINTED DAV cards. There are some fakes out there, but if you are looking to buy then let me know and I will let you know how to spot the reprints. If I see any listed on Ebay I will report them if they are not labeled as REPRINT in the auction listing.

[clsports]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

We are getting to the point (and I feel old), that there are some Bowman, Topps, and UD (AFLAC, USA, Perfect Game) cards that of players that have made careers for themselves. Kershaw, Verlander, Scherzer, McCutchen, Freeman, Correira, and Bregman’s first issues were in these sets.

The prospect/RC conversation is well-documented, but these cards don’t seem to have been considered in that. Are they to their own species and where do they fall on the totem poll?

EDIT - Forgot Ohtani and other WBC cards.

I guess it is all a matter of opinion. I prefer these early cards of these superstars that were issued 4-6 years before their mainstream RC's. I have only collected minor league issues and early pre-RC releases for many decades and will continue to do so. I don't need to follow the pack. I buy what I like.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

Wait - just an example.

We have Bryce Harper autos from 2009 (UD USA), 2010 Bowman (USA - labeled 1st bowman), 2011 Bowman (also labeled 1st Bowman), and 2012 Bowman/Topps RCs.

Do any of the pre-prospect cards sell for more than the prospect and/or RCs? I think the 2010s autos and parallels (maybe) do…. So we don’t have to wait for anyone to squeeze profit from anything. This raises the question.

Do 2017 Bowman WBC Ohtani’s sell for more than congruent RCs?

I don’t have all these answers - that’s why I ask the question and for examples supporting such. If the answer is “it depends,” that’s fine. But if a blanket statement is supported (as some would suggest), .

Sure. One must look at both the specific player, competing players at the given time and the overall “health” or profitability of the market/opportunity costs. So from this perhaps simplistic POV, there’s naturally always support for a blanket statement.

From this perspective all “investors”, flippers and prospectors are simply opportunists that are essentially slaves to current market conditions that they’ll try their best to manipulate to their advantage.

[Archangel1775]

They will have their niche but they aren't going to have the value like "1st Bowman" or "RC". They will never be valued more. Just let go of the Mark McGwire USA card dreams. That was part of the regular issue Topps set.

[jdhaugh11]

Originally Posted by clsports

There are 2010 Cedar Rapids Kernels Team Issued sets and a very rare Cedar Rapids Kernels DAV SGA team set that were officially licensed by MiLB and the Cedar Rapids Kernels. These all hold great value.

There are however, 3 different colored border cards (red, blue, green) that claim to be Cedar Rapids Kernels issued cards, but these are NOT LICENSED and I have no idea who made these cards, but they exist in massive quantities and are basically worth very little. I also believe they were printed in 2011 or later, but claim to be from 2010. Not true.

You also need to be aware of REPRINTED DAV cards. There are some fakes out there, but if you are looking to buy then let me know and I will let you know how to spot the reprints. If I see any listed on Ebay I will report them if they are not labeled as REPRINT in the auction listing.

Ok I have the 3 card color set. I bought 3 sets (9 cards) For $10 total, so I guess I got what I paid for.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

They will have their niche but they aren't going to have the value like "1st Bowman" or "RC". They will never be valued more. Just let go of the Mark McGwire USA card dreams. That was part of the regular issue Topps set.

Isn't Harper's 1st Bowman his team usa card?

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by JRX

Isn't Harper's 1st Bowman his team usa card?

Yes - which is one of the factors that had me ask the question.

Checking eBay final sales to see which goes for more currently:
2010 Bowman 1st gold Harper
2011 Bowman gold Harper
2012 Bowman RC gold Harper

EDIT - the 2011 Bowman’s don’t have the “1st Bowman.” The USA sells for much more with all other factors (parallel, numbering, grading/raw) are equal

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by JRX

Isn't Harper's 1st Bowman his team usa card?

No idea but they would be 3rd year USA cards or something. Upper Deck released him first in that uniform. I'm confident whatever the hobby deems his 1st Bowman Chrome Auto is worth a lot more.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

The prospect/RC conversation is well-documented, but these cards don’t seem to have been considered in that. Are they to their own species and where do they fall on the totem poll?

EDIT - Forgot Ohtani and other WBC cards.

Originally Posted by ScooterD

Yes - which is one of the factors that had me ask the question.

Checking eBay final sales to see which goes for more currently:
2010 Bowman 1st gold Harper
2011 Bowman 1st gold Harper
2012 Bowman RC gold Harper

This is turning into a Bryce Harper thread. To help you along, 2012 was his rookie card year. Those all stand alone as that, rookie cards. His first major Bowman Chrome releases was 2011. Anything before that I would say are similar to minor league card issues. Don't get caught up with gold card pricing. There are a lot of player collectors out there. Carry on.

[ScooterD]

Sorry - just using Bryce as an example that I could pull data for. The question isn’t focused on any particular player(s).

All input is appreciated

[Svabinsky78]

When it comes to modern cards, 80s and up, I really try to pick up the player's first tradable card which, in many cases, may be a minor league "oddball" card. For example, with the newest member of the hall of fame, Fred McGriff, his first tradable card is his 1985 TCMA Chiefs card, not his 1986 Donruss rookie.

For me, personally, these cards are great because they are the first appearances of players on cards. They also tend to be much less common than their actual rookies because minor league cards were never printed in large numbers and, of those that were printed, not many survived. They were mostly collected by local fans and probably ended up getting tossed by their parents when the garage was getting cleared out.

They are still very much a niche and are just not as desirable by mainstream collectors....but for me, I'd prefer the first appearance over the first "official" MLB card....to me, the 2005 Kershaw USA Junior Baseball card is more important than his flashy Bowman Chrome, Topps, etc cards because it is, in fact, Kershaw's first tradable card. But that's just me.

The Trading Card Database is a good reference for player's cards. It includes everything, from minor league cards, to team issued photo cards, to oddball cards, i.e. Bond Bread, Kellogg's, etc.