Mt. Rushmore of Nonsports Cards

[DynaEtch]

If I may borrow a thread from the baseball section, and be excused for using the tired rushmore theme.

What is the rushmore of nonsports cards, as in 4 most iconic, important, and sought after cards. Would it be something like this?



1. 1940 Gum Inc Superman #1
2. 2008 Rittenhouse Iron Man Robert Downey Jr Auto (Iron Man suit)
3. 2013 UD Fleer Marvel Retro Spider-Man Green PMG /10
4. 2004 Artbox Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Update Daniel/Emma/Rupert Triple auto

A few notes
-I wouldn’t consider any of these cards actually iconic, as in for a wider audience. Unlike the baseball thread, where if you showed a pic of some of the top cards to non-collectors in the general public and people probably still heard of it, I don’t think the general public knows about the above cards….and these are considered top cards of the hobby. Tells you a lot about how niche Non-Sports cards are. Heck, I’d wager if it was just the above list and I didn’t include the pics, even some nonsports collectors might not be able to picture what the card actually looks like.

-I don’t own any of these cards. The only one that I would really want to add is the HP triple, but not affordable for me.

-One of these cards is probably way more expensive than the others (can you guess which one? Answer below).

-Did not include any sketches. Being 1/1s, they don’t generally become iconic or sought after. Also, take a major sketch card like 2007MM Nar’s. There are like 200 of them…so wouldn’t make sense to pick one and include it here.

-I do not know much about MCU cards like the Rittenhouse Iron Man, I just included it because it’s known to be sought after. Is it correct that the one shown was not pack inserted? Which is more desirable, this or the Tony Stark versions that were pack inserted? Maybe I shouldn’t have included it because there is more than 1 version.

-I kind of cringe putting a modern Marvel manufactured scarcity card in the PMG green vs something from 90s Marvel, my fav era….but this isn’t about my personal fav looking cards, plus 90s marvel was overproduced and doesn’t have a single grail type card. There is no question that the Retro Spider-Man green PMG represents an important shift in the entire hobby to more limited, numbered cards. The card symbolizes that shift for me: first green PMG set, top character in the set.

What would you put as the top 4?

Answer to most valuable: Spider-Man green PMG, probably by a long shot too. Ironic that it’s from just 2013.

[Mishu2nite]

The triple potter, the other iron man with Robert downy pictured (less of this them, hard to pull than the ones you could purchase off of rittenhouse directly), David Bowie earth auto, and the Luke 1977.

[Vargaman]

No 30th Star Wars Ford?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by Mishu2nite

The triple potter, the other iron man with Robert downy pictured (less of this them, hard to pull than the ones you could purchase off of rittenhouse directly), David Bowie earth auto, and the Luke 1977.

I’m not very fluent in the whole Iron Man Downey auto thing. Which one would sell for more? Your point is logical that are less of them and they were pack pulled. I went with the above since it just looks like a cooler and more iconic card in the iron man armor. Luke 77 is a great example of how iconic doesn’t have to equal valuable.

Originally Posted by Vargaman

No 30th Star Wars Ford?


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Which would you replace it with? What makes the 30th Ford different than other Fords? One reason I stayed away from SW Ford, Hamill, Fisher, is that there seems to be examples of them from many releases. Whereas for something like the HP triple there’s just one triple….that’s it.

[Rictor]

With sports, you would go with the household names, the cards even non-collectors know are highly sought after. Mickey Mantle rookie, Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Hank Aaron.

For non-sports, I don't think there's that mainstream consensus on what a noncollector would recognize as being iconic and collectible.

Personally, I wouldn't put any PMG on the list because I don't think nonsports collectors care about them much, let alone the general public. I think they shot up in value during the pandemic and it wasn't us nonsports collectors driving those crazy prices. I also think those prices are temporary. What's the historical significance of a PMG? Nada.

Also, pop culture (films, comic books, etc.) don't always have the longevity of sports. Will anyone care about Robert Downey Jr. in 50 years? 100 years? Probably not. Will Babe Ruth still be a household name? Probably. If you don't believe me, look at a set of Hollywood tobacco cards of stars that were huge international celebrities of their day and see how many names you recognize.

I'd say even Harry Potter is pretty niche and specific to Millenials. As a GenXer, I think the books and films are horrible and don't collect any of them (I'd argue they're a pale imitation of the Books of Magic by Neil Gaiman). My generation would probably put Star Wars cards on the throne. We also like Marvel Masterpieces.

I'd argue that the most iconic nonsports cards to the general public are probably also some of the most common. Beatles trading cards from the 60s, Marvel and DC holograms from the 90s, Garbage Pail Kids from the 80s, Wacky Packages from the 70s, Star Wars cards from the 70s, 3 Stooges from the 50s, Desert Storm from the 90s, Mars Attacks from the 60s, Batman from the 60s.

I think most people could identify the Adam Bomb card from GPK Series 1. Maybe the Norman Schwarzkopf from Topps Desert Storm. Topps 75th reprinted some iconic cards.

[PurplesaurusRex]

I think you'd have to treat each franchise as it's own "sport", otherwise it will be hard to reach any consensus.

I'd go with one Marvel, one DC, one Star Wars and one Harry Potter.


Edit: And if we're adding a fifth, it has to GPK!

[dd316]

Mars Attacks - Prize Captive
GPK - Adam Bomb
Marvel Universe I - Stan Lee
1977 Star Wars - C-3PO boner

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by Rictor

With sports, you would go with the household names, the cards even non-collectors know are highly sought after. Mickey Mantle rookie, Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Hank Aaron.

For non-sports, I don't think there's that mainstream consensus on what a noncollector would recognize as being iconic and collectible.

Personally, I wouldn't put any PMG on the list because I don't think nonsports collectors care about them much, let alone the general public. I think they shot up in value during the pandemic and it wasn't us nonsports collectors driving those crazy prices. I also think those prices are temporary. What's the historical significance of a PMG? Nada.

Also, pop culture (films, comic books, etc.) don't always have the longevity of sports. Will anyone care about Robert Downey Jr. in 50 years? 100 years? Probably not. Will Babe Ruth still be a household name? Probably. If you don't believe me, look at a set of Hollywood tobacco cards of stars that were huge international celebrities of their day and see how many names you recognize.

I'd say even Harry Potter is pretty niche and specific to Millenials. As a GenXer, I think the books and films are horrible and don't collect any of them (I'd argue they're a pale imitation of the Books of Magic by Neil Gaiman). My generation would probably put Star Wars cards on the throne. We also like Marvel Masterpieces.

I'd argue that the most iconic nonsports cards to the general public are probably also some of the most common. Beatles trading cards from the 60s, Marvel and DC holograms from the 90s, Garbage Pail Kids from the 80s, Wacky Packages from the 70s, Star Wars cards from the 70s, 3 Stooges from the 50s, Desert Storm from the 90s, Mars Attacks from the 60s, Batman from the 60s.

I think most people could identify the Adam Bomb card from GPK Series 1. Maybe the Norman Schwarzkopf from Topps Desert Storm. Topps 75th reprinted some iconic cards.

Some excellent points here. Many I agree with, some I dont, and some I have to take MAJOR exception with, such as HP being a horrible film and book series (I think both are outstanding, then again Im a millennial, so you might be on to something there).

Even if the Spiderman was part of that PMG pump phase, which is absolutely true, here is why I include it: Sort of like the Griffey UD RC in baseball, it kind of signifies a transition to a new era in the nonsport hobby (for better or worse), to PMGs/numbered inserts, and for that it has importance. I think it is even more notable as a marvel card than say the 2015 Marvel Retro Spidey PMG gold 1/1, or other Spidey 1/1s like red spectrums....and the green is a /10. The actual card? I dont like it: it has rehashed art, it's a sports insert, and it's not even a great rehashed image. But I do not see the value going back down to what it was before the PMG hype phase. This is the most expensive Nonsports card period at the moment I believe, and while it probably came down some the last two years, it is here to stay in terms of value.

As for iconic cards. Yes very true there are arguments for things like the 1966 Topps Batman, GPK, or maybe even something like the Marvel Universe series 4 Spidey vs Venom 3D hologram. However I still think almost no nonsports card is truly iconic with the wider public....probably not even those. Comics? Yes, like Action Comics 1. Cards? No. If I show the 1966 Topps batman #1 or 1940 Gum Superman #1 to a random person on the street, I think it's unlikely they will know what it is. Same with the Spidey holo, and probably even the 1977 Luke. Probably most cards tbh. Adam Bomb card might actually have the highest chance to be recognizable.

While it's true that some actors may not have fame that outlives baseball stars like Ruth and Mantle, I do think there is something to say about at least comic book superheroes, which are more or less timeless. If baseball's fan base steadily grows older, and eventually the sport becomes less popular, the popularity of some of the greats could fade.

Spiderman and company seem to be pretty firmly cemented into the pop culture lore, to the point its hard to walk into a walmart or grocery store without seeing the characters on various things (where you dont tend to see Ty Cobb, Ruth, Mantle on various things). To take an extreme analogy: how many of the top athletes from hundreds to thousands of years ago do we know and have become household names? (perhaps from Greek olympics, Roman gladiators, medieval jousting or whatever the sport was back then, etc). Not many at all. The most prominent names that live on in history tend to be scientists, thinkers, authors, politicians/leaders, and names from cultural myths such as greek or norse mythology. In a way, things like SW and marvel are the stuff of modern myth. Obviously a different level than those older ones, but still...they likely have longevity.

I do agree though that most actual nonsports collectors probably wouldnt put the Spidey PMG green up there, for the reasons you said.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by dd316

Mars Attacks - Prize Captive
GPK - Adam Bomb
Marvel Universe I - Stan Lee
1977 Star Wars - C-3PO boner

Excellent picks in terms of pure iconic-ness (well the first, not being familiar with Mars Attacks, I admit I had to look up).

For the marvel, also in terms of straight up pure iconic....I might say it's a toss up between the 90 MU Stan Lee and the 92 Masterpieces Jusko Spiderman base (or even Hulk base).

[Kodiak10]

You probably have to break this down to vintage and modern. To many to choose from. I would put 1966 Topps Batman #1 in the top 5 personally

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by Kodiak10

You probably have to break this down to vintage and modern. To many to choose from. I would put 1966 Topps Batman #1 in the top 5 personally

One thing that struck me about the baseball Rushmore thread, is that it was basically a complete consensus for 3 of the 4 (T206 Honus Wager, 52 Topps Mantle, 89 UD Griffey)....and it was just the last that was heavily debated (OP had it as the 2011 Topps Update Trout). And that spans the entire stretch of baseball, vintage and modern, and it's basically a strong consensus for 3.

But in nonsports, I feel if 25 people posted their rushmores, it would completely vary, and almost none would be the same. Like you said, too many to choose from, and too many completely different collecting interests (from vintage to junk wax to modern, from Marvel to SW to GPK, from art cards to movie cards, from autos to sketches to limited numbered inserts).

[CicadaMound]

Originally Posted by dd316

Mars Attacks - Prize Captive
GPK - Adam Bomb
Marvel Universe I - Stan Lee
1977 Star Wars - C-3PO boner

This but replace Stan Lee with the 1879 N519 Marquis of Lorne.

[dd316]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Excellent picks in terms of pure iconic-ness (well the first, not being familiar with Mars Attacks, I admit I had to look up).

For the marvel, also in terms of straight up pure iconic....I might say it's a toss up between the 90 MU Stan Lee and the 92 Masterpieces Jusko Spiderman base (or even Hulk base).

I had Hulk on the list but replaced it with C-3PO. I also almost put the Horrors of War Hitler card, but I don't want to give that guy the spotlight.

Originally Posted by CicadaMound

This but replace Stan Lee with the 1879 N519 Marquis of Lorne.

I have never heard of this card. Looked it up, don't recognize it at all.

[VinnyH]

It's very subjective and we've had different eras of product.

The first card that came to my mind was the Robert Downey Jr. but then I would add GOT 1st Series Emilia Clarke. Clarke kind of set a standard for a tough card of a cute woman.
Vinny

[DynaEtch]

So to get into frame of mind for how Im defining criteria for the Rushmore,

Iconic is a part of it....but not the only part for me. It also has to be a grail-like card. So while I totally agree that cards like the Stan Lee or Jusko Spiderman or 1977 Luke are iconic within the hobby...I dont think many would consider them to be grails or among the most sought after, as they are readily available. Whereas the Iron Man surely is a grail card for many collectors.

That's just how Im defining...everyone else could have their own criteria. It would be interesting if you polled like 500 nonsports collectors for their list, to see which card would appear on the list the most.. I suspect it might actually be the Harry Potter triple. Other ones I have like Superman Gum, while I think it is a major card in the hobby, or the divisive Spiderman green PMG, there isnt as much consensus with those. There seems to be a strong common notion that the HP triple is a grail even if HP isnt the most widely popular of the franchises.

Originally Posted by dd316

I had Hulk on the list but replaced it with C-3PO. I also almost put the Horrors of War Hitler card, but I don't want to give that guy the spotlight.

Yea good point.

As for the Hulk, such an iconic image and I think what helps is that it was also on the box of the product. A lot of people will recognize that card...maybe not a totally random person on the street, but most people vaguely familiar with cards, perhaps like a baseball card collector.

[aces]

Originally Posted by VinnyH

I would add GOT 1st Series Emilia Clarke. Clarke kind of set a standard for a tough card of a cute woman.

You could do an all-female Rushmore with Clarke, Emma Watson POA, Jennifer Lawrence Hunger Games, and Jessica Alba Dark Angel.

[Fenian95]

I would make a strong argument for the John Williams Star Wars 30th auto.

He only ever signed for the one set.

And his music will resonate for a long time to come. Second most nominated of all time at the Academy Awards, only behind Walt Disney.

An incredible 25 Grammys.

[DynaEtch]

So from a pure iconic stance- nothing to do with price or how much of a grail it is, just iconic cards- maybe something like this?



The difference again is the rushmore in the OP is some of the ‘biggest’ cards in the hobby (which is not just the iconic factor like here but also grail status and most sought after cards).

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by Fenian95

I would make a strong argument for the John Williams Star Wars 30th auto.

He only ever signed for the one set.

And his music will resonate for a long time to come. Second most nominated of all time at the Academy Awards, only behind Walt Disney.

An incredible 25 Grammys.

This card has a strong argument for the OP Rushmore, and I was considering it. If I was going to replace a card I’d probably replace the Iron Man with this (especially since Iron Man has multiple versions).

[Archangel1775]

The growth of Non-Sports is different and it includes too many genres to really nail down 4 cards. It would have to be separated but I think you're on the right track.

Something like the Mt Rushmore of:

Comic book art sets
Television sets
Movie sets
CCG sets
Artist Autographs
Actor/Entertainer Autographs

Not sure what to call Wacky Packages and Garbage Pail Kids though.

[mjohnatgt]

For historical significance, you're missing some of most rare and sought after nonsports cards from the early 20th century.
1932 U.S. Caramel Presidents McKinley (intentional SP)


Here's a list from the Net54 nonsports board:
https://forum.vintagenonsports.com/p...world-10568765

Would you consider Black Lotus or 1st edition Charizard to be nonsports, or do they only qualify as CCGs (Collectible Card Games)?

[finfangfan]

Nice idea for a thread but we will never get close to a consensus.

Throwing this one into the mix… Mars Attacks is a property that originated in a card set and this one is probably the most iconic image.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

Here's a list from the Net54 nonsports board:
https://forum.vintagenonsports.com/p...world-10568765

Would you consider Black Lotus or 1st edition Charizard to be nonsports, or do they only qualify as CCGs (Collectible Card Games)?

What an interesting discussion. Whoever said it above was right, it's hard to pick 4 cards in all nonsports without separating eras. Im not that fluent about vintage nonsports. I sense the fine folks on that Net54 board would NOT like my rushmore in the OP.

I wonder what percentage of nonsports collectors are vintage era like that, vs modern though. The grails of the modern crowd will all be more aligned with some of the rushmores posted in this thread. Some of the prices mentioned in that thread took me by surprise....96k for the Mckinley in a 5?

That thread also answered what the Marquis of Lorne is, since I had no idea what that card was. Apparently first tobacco card, from 1879, very few exist? (but maybe not actually the first one?). Either way sounds like a grail that I had no clue about.

Magic Black Lotus, Pokemon Charizard etc does not count as they are TCGs/CCGs, not traditionally lumped into the nonsports cards category (blowout distinguishes them in forums, for example, as does ebay). That would open up a whole different can of worms.

Originally Posted by finfangfan

Nice idea for a thread but we will never get close to a consensus.

Throwing this one into the mix… Mars Attacks is a property that originated in a card set and this one is probably the most iconic image.

This set is just plain awesome. Has that very 'classic non-sports vibe' to it. I could see something like this being put in the iconic list. Probably not as much in the grail category since there were likely a lot made in 1962.

It just occurred to me how rare that is in nonsports sets (bolded). Seems like almost every mainstream set, especially today, is from an external property.

[DynaEtch]

Is it true the most a nonsports card has sold for ever was the 2013 Marvel Retro Spiderman PMG Green? There is one showing sold on Goldin closer to the PMG hype phase for 168k. I'd like to say one also sold in the 200s but Im not entirely certain. Anyone know a sale that was above that? (not counting Magic/Pokemon/TCGs, just nonsports).

[peterose4hof]

Adam Bomb has to be on there.

People that know nothing about trading cards recognize that image.