Undervalued player IRL?

FTLFTL · 10-20-2023, 09:44 PM

Is there a player that you think people are significantly undervaluing? Someone who is going to be an absolute star and they're getting overlooked? Mine is Eqequiel Tovar. 153 games playing a really good shortstop in his age-21 season, and I think there's a lot going on there. I don't think he'll ever be "hobby good", but I think he could be a 30 WAR player who plays great defense while putting up league-average offensive seasons. Thoughts?

ddearing · 10-20-2023, 09:51 PM

I apologize for what may sound like "beating a dead horse", but many baseball minds think of Yordan Alvarez as possibly the best hitter in all of baseball and you can purchase licensed Rookie autos of him for $50. I don't think any sober person has ever called Corbin Carroll the best hitter in baseball and you can't buy a licensed Rookie auto of him under $100 - most are $150-250 for the equivalent sets as the $50 Yordan's.

pewe · 10-20-2023, 10:12 PM

There are tons of these players. Just see JoRam. When was the last time you saw anyone pumping him on here?

Kyle Tucker is hiding behind Yordan, and consistently adding 5+ WAR

Arraez is probably the best slap hitter we’ve seen in a long while.

Great fielders who are pretty good hitters, like Lindor.

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gresh87 · 10-20-2023, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddearing

I apologize for what may sound like "beating a dead horse", but many baseball minds think of Yordan Alvarez as possibly the best hitter in all of baseball and you can purchase licensed Rookie autos of him for $50. I don't think any sober person has ever called Corbin Carroll the best hitter in baseball and you can't buy a licensed Rookie auto of him under $100 - most are $150-250 for the equivalent sets as the $50 Yordan's.

I get your point and no disrespect to the Yordan collectors on this board at all because the dude is one of the most feared hitters in the game in an era where dudes are throwing absolute gas, BUT he doesn’t do anything for me as a collectible player. Astros - strike 1 (despite his lack of involvement), sort of a DH/defensive liability - strike 2, and I tend to lean toward speedier players whose contributions can be felt in other ways in the field - strike 3, I guess.

Again, no disrespect. He’s a walking nightmare for opposing pitchers.

To get back to OP, I actually think Ketel Marte is totally ignored. I might be a little biased after seeing him play in person at Busch 3-4 years ago during his All-Star season. I couldn’t help but feel like he was the best player on the field that day. I’m glad to see him have a good postseason.

And no, I’m not looking to unload a bunch of his cards! I my best card of his might be a ‘20 Silver Pack /99.

jduds · 10-20-2023, 10:50 PM

Jose Ramirez, Nola Arenado, Paul Goldschmidt, Trea Turner, and Francisco Lindor all are fairly overlooked IMO. They definitely are in my collection.

I like Tovar, but if you really think his ceiling is a career 30 WAR player it is hard to call him overlooked in the hobby. Those players are great IRL but not so much in cardboard form. It's hard to argue he is undervalued unless you are predicting multiple 5-6 WAR seasons and quite a few All-Star games.

MiamiMarlinsFan · 10-20-2023, 11:08 PM

I guess the answer is “almost every good player” since a lot of people here think there’s only three “hobby good” players currently.

jimfalbo21 · 10-20-2023, 11:10 PM

Aaron Nola IRL

Noles939913 · 10-20-2023, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimfalbo21

Aaron Nola IRL

He had a 4.46 ERA this year. He has 90 wins. He has never won a Cy Young. He has made a single All-Star team. He is 30 years old. What am I missing here?

Noles939913 · 10-20-2023, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

I guess the answer is “almost every good player” since a lot of people here think there’s only three “hobby good” players currently.

It’s true though. How many current players can you not get a non-rookie auto of for under $100? I would say the answer is roughly three like you said. I won’t count Mookie Betts as he hasn’t signed in years.

pewe · 10-20-2023, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noles939913

It’s true though. How many current players can you not get a non-rookie auto of for under $100? I would say the answer is roughly three like you said. I won’t count Mookie Betts as he hasn’t signed in years.

Who are the three?

I can think of two: Trout, Ohtani…

…and I worry Trout could get demoted soon (just like Pujols was in the 2nd half of his career)

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Noles939913 · 10-20-2023, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

Who are the three?

I can think of two: Trout, Ohtani…

…and I worry Trout could get demoted soon (just like Pujols was in the 2nd half of his career)

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Acuna Jr. I would assume although I haven’t looked at his prices lately. I’m also talking about licensed Topps autos. I would think you could get crappy looking Leaf, Onyx, or Panini autos of his for less than $100.

pewe · 10-20-2023, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noles939913

Acuna Jr. I would assume although I haven’t looked at his prices lately. I’m also talking about licensed Topps autos. I would think you could get crappy looking Leaf, Onyx, or Panini autos of his for less than $100.

Ya, and that is probably tenuous if he puts up less than MVP numbers next year

Hard for any player to sustain $100 base auto cards after RC

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LVDan · 10-21-2023, 12:04 AM

Hobby great- Ohtani
Hobby good - Ron, Trout, Judge
Hobby decent-Soto JRod, Carroll, Betts
Then a giant pool of baseball good to great hobby midgets like harper, Yordan, JRam, Freeman, Witt, Devers, Tucker, hendo, Vlad, Bichette, Kershaw, altuve, Alonso, Arenado etc
I may have missed a few or slightly overrated Betts or snubbed Harper kinda.

DylanPowers92 · 10-21-2023, 12:33 AM

I agree with Jose Ramirez and I also have to include Gleyber Torres, who is underrated by his own team

OhioLawyerF5 · 10-21-2023, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jduds

Jose Ramirez, Nola Arenado, Paul Goldschmidt, Trea Turner, and Francisco Lindor all are fairly overlooked IMO. They definitely are in my collection.

I like Tovar, but if you really think his ceiling is a career 30 WAR player it is hard to call him overlooked in the hobby. Those players are great IRL but not so much in cardboard form. It's hard to argue he is undervalued unless you are predicting multiple 5-6 WAR seasons and quite a few All-Star games.

With Tovar's defensive numbers and age I don't see how 30 WAR is his ceiling. He will have a decent floor each season for WAR from defense alone. Average offensive seasons will net him solid WAR, and if he continues to develop into the hitter many believe he can be, 6-7 WAR seasons will be the norm. And at 21 years old, there's a lot of seasons ahead to accumulate. Not saying it will happen, but to cap his potential at 30 WAR is underselling his ability. But I guess that's the point of this thread.

OhioLawyerF5 · 10-21-2023, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noles939913

It’s true though. How many current players can you not get a non-rookie auto of for under $100? I would say the answer is roughly three like you said. I won’t count Mookie Betts as he hasn’t signed in years.

Why is that the standard for "hobby good"? Seems extremely arbitrary.

pewe · 10-21-2023, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTLFTL

Is there a player that you think people are significantly undervaluing? Someone who is going to be an absolute star and they're getting overlooked? Mine is Eqequiel Tovar. 153 games playing a really good shortstop in his age-21 season, and I think there's a lot going on there. I don't think he'll ever be "hobby good", but I think he could be a 30 WAR player who plays great defense while putting up league-average offensive seasons. Thoughts?

BTW I didn’t look at him before… Tovar had the 2nd lowest (negative) offensive value add in MLB this year (just better than Tim Anderson). Crazily x-stats say this was BETTER than anticipated.

Feels like he’s got a lot of work to do to just stay in the league, let alone become a star and get some passionate following.

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MiamiMarlinsFan · 10-21-2023, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

Who are the three?

I can think of two: Trout, Ohtani…

…and I worry Trout could get demoted soon (just like Pujols was in the 2nd half of his career)

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I was thinking Ohtani, Trout, Acuna, but I guess Judge could be on there too. Either way, I think there’s lots of players out there to collect. More than just the pre-approved players the “investors” say. They’re the same group that was investing in Tatis until recently too.

MiamiMarlinsFan · 10-21-2023, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Why is that the standard for "hobby good"? Seems extremely arbitrary.

Extremely arbitrary, which is why I hate it. From what I can gather, investors use it to mean “player I can make money off of,” but I don’t know.

pewe · 10-21-2023, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

Extremely arbitrary, which is why I hate it. From what I can gather, investors use it to mean “player I can make money off of,” but I don’t know.

The funny thing: I think it’s box rippers specifically. It’s the players who allow them to recover their cost.

As a singles buyer, they seem like a really bad place to put $$, as they are so expensive that any appreciation is hard to imagine. And you are more likely to lose your shirt.

The only way to really make $$ would be buying a category three player who makes it to category two.

Or in Ohtani’s case made the jump from 3 to 1

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pewe · 10-21-2023, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LVDan

Hobby great- Ohtani
Hobby good - Ron, Trout, Judge
Hobby decent-Soto JRod, Carroll, Betts
Then a giant pool of baseball good to great hobby midgets like harper, Yordan, JRam, Freeman, Witt, Devers, Tucker, hendo, Vlad, Bichette, Kershaw, altuve, Alonso, Arenado etc
I may have missed a few or slightly overrated Betts or snubbed Harper kinda.

The crazy thing, as a Carroll buyer, is my target cards are at similar price I’d pay if buying many of the same cards for the players in the “hobby midget” category (as I am known to do). His cards are 1/2 the cost of JRod, and maybe 1/5 the price of Soto.

While I can get them, I will do it

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cardsin47 · 10-21-2023, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LVDan

Hobby great- Ohtani
Hobby good - Ron, Trout, Judge
Hobby decent-Soto JRod, Carroll, Betts
Then a giant pool of baseball good to great hobby midgets like harper, Yordan, JRam, Freeman, Witt, Devers, Tucker, hendo, Vlad, Bichette, Kershaw, altuve, Alonso, Arenado etc
I may have missed a few or slightly overrated Betts or snubbed Harper kinda.

This is pretty good —- I would switch Soto up and Judge down though ( FWIW )

MiamiMarlinsFan · 10-21-2023, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

The funny thing: I think it’s box rippers specifically. It’s the players who allow them to recover their cost.

As a singles buyer, they seem like a really bad place to put $$, as they are so expensive that any appreciation is hard to imagine. And you are more likely to lose your shirt.

The only way to really make $$ would be buying a category three player who makes it to category two.

Or in Ohtani’s case made the jump from 3 to 1

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Yeah, it seems that way. I actually avoid those players for the most part because I think they’re overpriced (I indulge in the occasional Acuna).

Badgers0821 · 10-21-2023, 09:51 AM

Seems like the OPs original inquiry went over everyone’s head. He’s discussing players who are actually overlooked when it comes to the game, not the hobby. Everyone’s response is involving the hobby, unless I missed something…yes he mentioned “hobby good” but that was more anecdotally (saying he feels his guy will be good as a player but may not be good in the hobby) than what he was looking for as responses/answers.

pewe · 10-21-2023, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badgers0821

Seems like the OPs original inquiry went over everyone’s head. He’s discussing players who are actually overlooked when it comes to the game, not the hobby. Everyone’s response is involving the hobby, unless I missed something…yes he mentioned “hobby good” but that was more anecdotally (saying he feels his guy will be good as a player but may not be good in the hobby) than what he was looking for as responses/answers.

What does it mean to be “overlooked when it comes to the game”? I mean these guys are rostered on an MLB team, and playing full time. It’s not like they are stuck in the minors or on the bench

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10-20-2023, 09:44 PM	#1
FTLFTL Member Join Date: Sep 2023 Location: New York Posts: 528	Undervalued player IRL? Is there a player that you think people are significantly undervaluing? Someone who is going to be an absolute star and they're getting overlooked? Mine is Eqequiel Tovar. 153 games playing a really good shortstop in his age-21 season, and I think there's a lot going on there. I don't think he'll ever be "hobby good", but I think he could be a 30 WAR player who plays great defense while putting up league-average offensive seasons. Thoughts? __________________ Griffey, Lindor, Bo Jackson, et al.

10-20-2023, 09:51 PM	#2
ddearing Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 3,811 vintage-dan ddearing	I apologize for what may sound like "beating a dead horse", but many baseball minds think of Yordan Alvarez as possibly the best hitter in all of baseball and you can purchase licensed Rookie autos of him for $50. I don't think any sober person has ever called Corbin Carroll the best hitter in baseball and you can't buy a licensed Rookie auto of him under $100 - most are $150-250 for the equivalent sets as the $50 Yordan's. __________________ If you have to explain why it's a 1/1, then it's NOT a 1/1. Looking for Andre Dawson Serial numbered cards that are his jersey number - either #8 or #10. So looking for cards like 8/8 or 08/99 or 10/250.

10-20-2023, 11:10 PM	#7
jimfalbo21 Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Gibsonia, PA (Pittsburgh Area) Posts: 672 jrf095644 jimfalbo21	Aaron Nola IRL __________________ https://www.wildersideofsports.com Collect: McCutchen, Gerrit Cole, Dave Parker, Mazeroski, Oneil Cruz, Stargell, Clemente, & Pirates. Private Signings for: Denny McLain and Elly De La Cruz.

10-21-2023, 12:04 AM	#13
LVDan Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 17,553	Hobby great- Ohtani Hobby good - Ron, Trout, Judge Hobby decent-Soto JRod, Carroll, Betts Then a giant pool of baseball good to great hobby midgets like harper, Yordan, JRam, Freeman, Witt, Devers, Tucker, hendo, Vlad, Bichette, Kershaw, altuve, Alonso, Arenado etc I may have missed a few or slightly overrated Betts or snubbed Harper kinda. __________________ So we cheated and we lied and we tested. And we never failed to fail; it was the easiest thing to do.

10-20-2023, 10:12 PM	#3
pewe Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 26,641	There are tons of these players. Just see JoRam. When was the last time you saw anyone pumping him on here? Kyle Tucker is hiding behind Yordan, and consistently adding 5+ WAR Arraez is probably the best slap hitter we’ve seen in a long while. Great fielders who are pretty good hitters, like Lindor. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10-20-2023, 10:50 PM	#5
jduds Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Hattiesburg, MS Posts: 3,793 chilaw57	Jose Ramirez, Nola Arenado, Paul Goldschmidt, Trea Turner, and Francisco Lindor all are fairly overlooked IMO. They definitely are in my collection. I like Tovar, but if you really think his ceiling is a career 30 WAR player it is hard to call him overlooked in the hobby. Those players are great IRL but not so much in cardboard form. It's hard to argue he is undervalued unless you are predicting multiple 5-6 WAR seasons and quite a few All-Star games.

10-20-2023, 11:08 PM	#6
MiamiMarlinsFan Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Florida Posts: 13,546	I guess the answer is “almost every good player” since a lot of people here think there’s only three “hobby good” players currently.

10-21-2023, 12:33 AM	#14
DylanPowers92 Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 1,964 turn.two.sports.cards	I agree with Jose Ramirez and I also have to include Gleyber Torres, who is underrated by his own team

10-21-2023, 09:51 AM	#24
Badgers0821 Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8,062	Seems like the OPs original inquiry went over everyone’s head. He’s discussing players who are actually overlooked when it comes to the game, not the hobby. Everyone’s response is involving the hobby, unless I missed something…yes he mentioned “hobby good” but that was more anecdotally (saying he feels his guy will be good as a player but may not be good in the hobby) than what he was looking for as responses/answers.