Raw Vintage

Scottish Punk · 08-14-2024, 02:06 PM

I know this is a topic that has bee discussed before, but figured it would be nice to get a current state of the union.

Every now and then I get a passing thought of not worrying about graded vintage and just find good clean raw instead. Most of my searching is via Ebay and a bit of COMC. So maybe there is other great spots to look.

Are there good raw cards available? I did some random HOF rookie search of 70's football and baseball. Even putting "nm" in the search. It doesn't seem to be much out there. NM apparently means extreme off center and 4 bad corners.

Some of the actual clean copies have buy it now prices close to a "7" already. Doesn't make sense to pay for raw at that price and take the uncertainty of the card.

Are we just too far down a rabbit hole of grading where vintage HOF RCs (and probably HOFers in general) where there is just too many eyes grading everything worth grading?

The headache of dealing with selling raw vintage just not worth it either and good to have it all graded ahead of time?

My opinion it seems the only way to build a good raw vintage collection is to buy collections offline and somehow find these collections. Everything online has already been picked over or will be really quick.

hxcmilkshake · 08-14-2024, 02:15 PM

Depends what you're looking for and goals really..70s fb and bb rc? Flipping or keeping. Flipping I would look elsewhere than the 70s.... if keeping, whats your budget? A graded 7 Eddie Murray is like $60. Or you can take your chances raw and find one for $20. Or like you say it arrives and it has a wrinkle or something.

And yeah most collections have dried up but people get lucky on offerup, yard sales, etc ya never know

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Scottish Punk · 08-14-2024, 02:46 PM

I am not a flipper. So it would be putting them in a pro-mold or something with a custom label. I like do a periodic check to see if is worth to sell a graded and rebuy raw and put any extra money toward filling the checklist.

hxcmilkshake · 08-14-2024, 05:52 PM

Vintage is pretty stable. And it's pretty easy to sell raw, graded may be easier but sometimes not worth the wait or ROI.

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towerymt · 08-14-2024, 10:57 PM

It's out there, but it takes a long time to find it. I'm looking for a '59 Stan Musial....

Here's one example that was close...a centered sharp '59 Musial. This one wasn't quite it for me, but I thought about bidding.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1959-Topps-....m43663.l10137

Compared with this one, which is not near mint at all

https://www.ebay.com/itm/35595574230...1959+musial+nm

------------------------

When it works out: the last card I hunted for a while was a '61 Berra.

bought it looking like this:

It was quite nice once I got it in hand, so I submitted it

Gary · 08-17-2024, 02:28 PM

Clean raw vintage is still out there,i know that as i have a lot of it.Hard part like you said is finding someone that has it and willing to part with it for a descent price.Guys that collected in the 70's and 80's left a lot of their collection raw only grading the key cards.

there are some online shops you can by raw that can be trusted BBCE,Greg Morris amongst others,the issue with those is your going to pay.if your in a bigger city you may still find a group that gets together and does B/S/T nights.if you do find a group id suggest buying small and sending in for grading to make sure the group is legit and not some trimming sellers.

discodanman45 · 08-17-2024, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary

Clean raw vintage is still out there,i know that as i have a lot of it.Hard part like you said is finding someone that has it and willing to part with it for a descent price.Guys that collected in the 70's and 80's left a lot of their collection raw only grading the key cards.

there are some online shops you can by raw that can be trusted BBCE,Greg Morris amongst others,the issue with those is your going to pay.if your in a bigger city you may still find a group that gets together and does B/S/T nights.if you do find a group id suggest buying small and sending in for grading to make sure the group is legit and not some trimming sellers.

Greg Morris and BBCE are large consignors. Greg Morris was known to grade 1500 cards an hour. Below is a link where he says that. Card trimmers could be selling vintage through Greg Morris and reaping huge rewards. They won't be catching many alterations with how quickly they "grade" the cards. The only thing that I trust with Greg Morris is they have a great return policy on their cards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaTd3jnvzxI&t=85s

jtclockwork · 08-20-2024, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary

Clean raw vintage is still out there,i know that as i have a lot of it.Hard part like you said is finding someone that has it and willing to part with it for a descent price.Guys that collected in the 70's and 80's left a lot of their collection raw only grading the key cards.

there are some online shops you can by raw that can be trusted BBCE,Greg Morris amongst others,the issue with those is your going to pay.if your in a bigger city you may still find a group that gets together and does B/S/T nights.if you do find a group id suggest buying small and sending in for grading to make sure the group is legit and not some trimming sellers.

I buy from Greg Morris but I'm always mindful of trimming as some of those cards look sketch. He has so many cards passing through it's inevitable that some are going to slip by. I also count on the grade being at least a full grade lower than whatever he lists. I've had the best luck finding deals on obscurer stuff that passes through there -- vintage nonsports issues and Mexican Topps football - stuff like that. Any decent looking HOF usually goes for more than I'm willing to risk, though once I almost got a Mickey Mantle that appeared to have a legit autograph on the back of the card that was not advertised as such. Got sniped last second on it. No idea if it was real or not, but I wasn't paying more than the cost of a poor Mantle for a chance at that lottery ticket.

mjohnatgt · 08-21-2024, 07:06 PM

There is still a lot of good quality vintage out there, but there are some really solid-eyed collectors/investors poring over it at COMC. And sometimes we're cherry picking from other known collectors.
I lucked out recently and bought a clean, semi-centered HOF vintage card for $40 on site, paid for $22 in PSA grading, and it came back a 7 NM. Just sold for $486 through eBay via COMC.

discodanman45 · 08-22-2024, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

There is still a lot of good quality vintage out there, but there are some really solid-eyed collectors/investors poring over it at COMC. And sometimes we're cherry picking from other known collectors.
I lucked out recently and bought a clean, semi-centered HOF vintage card for $40 on site, paid for $22 in PSA grading, and it came back a 7 NM. Just sold for $486 through eBay via COMC.

Tons of great cards out there, but becoming harder and harder to get. Supply is one thing, but so many people grading cards right now and looking for anything to grade. Most of these people are losing money, but the gambling has people addicted. I have graded tons of cards from COMC and have done well. However, I send every card home to look over before I send in. Picked up these cards for $22.50 on COMC, paid under $50 for grading, and just put them away into my PC.

Hopefully the seller of these cards on COMC aren't here. Under $150 including seller fees for the Aaron and Perry. Both got 6's, but are amazing cards. The team card was $7.50, but looked amazing. Just had to grade it!

mjohnatgt · 08-22-2024, 08:30 PM

Beautiful pickups.

grizjunkie23 · 08-23-2024, 05:34 AM

As others have said, COMC and eBay are still good places to get raw vintage. COMC scans are high quality, and you really only have to watch out for hairline creases, etc. eBay is more of a crapshoot with poor photo quality, but you'll catch gems from time to time.

These are some raw-to-grade examples from the past year, sourced mainly from COMC and eBay. I like to buy raw Aarons to keep costs down on my Topps run. Feels a little more personal getting them graded myself.

Skipscards · 08-31-2024, 10:07 PM

Sometimes you can even find decent raw vintage in your closet in a box.

CardFarmer · 09-04-2024, 05:12 PM

It's out there, but getting harder and harder to find. My worry is that when I see a sharp ungraded copy of something, I assume that it must be trimmed or otherwise altered to make it ungradable. I took a gamble on a 1969 Nolan Ryan recently, and when I got it in hand it looked so sharp I had to submit it. Came back a PSA 8, so that was a pretty nice score.

Most of the stuff I end up buying are really focused, nice looking cards that would grade a 4 or below due to corners or mild wrinkles.

08-14-2024, 02:06 PM	#1
Scottish Punk Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 9,149 scottishpunk	Raw Vintage I know this is a topic that has bee discussed before, but figured it would be nice to get a current state of the union. Every now and then I get a passing thought of not worrying about graded vintage and just find good clean raw instead. Most of my searching is via Ebay and a bit of COMC. So maybe there is other great spots to look. Are there good raw cards available? I did some random HOF rookie search of 70's football and baseball. Even putting "nm" in the search. It doesn't seem to be much out there. NM apparently means extreme off center and 4 bad corners. Some of the actual clean copies have buy it now prices close to a "7" already. Doesn't make sense to pay for raw at that price and take the uncertainty of the card. Are we just too far down a rabbit hole of grading where vintage HOF RCs (and probably HOFers in general) where there is just too many eyes grading everything worth grading? The headache of dealing with selling raw vintage just not worth it either and good to have it all graded ahead of time? My opinion it seems the only way to build a good raw vintage collection is to buy collections offline and somehow find these collections. Everything online has already been picked over or will be really quick.

08-31-2024, 10:07 PM	#13
Skipscards Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: In Tribute To The Great Ryno Posts: 29,537 jlankf2 jmp4	Sometimes you can even find decent raw vintage in your closet in a box. __________________ Go Royals!! #RoyalsIn2015 <---It Happened!! #TEAMZinck Sometimes it is astounding that we are able to persist in a world so full of morons.

08-14-2024, 02:15 PM	#2
hxcmilkshake Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Apopka FL Posts: 11,004 hxcmilkshake	Depends what you're looking for and goals really..70s fb and bb rc? Flipping or keeping. Flipping I would look elsewhere than the 70s.... if keeping, whats your budget? A graded 7 Eddie Murray is like $60. Or you can take your chances raw and find one for $20. Or like you say it arrives and it has a wrinkle or something. And yeah most collections have dried up but people get lucky on offerup, yard sales, etc ya never know Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

08-14-2024, 02:46 PM	#3
Scottish Punk Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 9,149 scottishpunk	I am not a flipper. So it would be putting them in a pro-mold or something with a custom label. I like do a periodic check to see if is worth to sell a graded and rebuy raw and put any extra money toward filling the checklist.

08-14-2024, 05:52 PM	#4
hxcmilkshake Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Apopka FL Posts: 11,004 hxcmilkshake	Vintage is pretty stable. And it's pretty easy to sell raw, graded may be easier but sometimes not worth the wait or ROI. Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

08-14-2024, 10:57 PM	#5
towerymt Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: VA Posts: 8,442	It's out there, but it takes a long time to find it. I'm looking for a '59 Stan Musial.... Here's one example that was close...a centered sharp '59 Musial. This one wasn't quite it for me, but I thought about bidding. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1959-Topps-....m43663.l10137 Compared with this one, which is not near mint at all https://www.ebay.com/itm/35595574230...1959+musial+nm ------------------------ When it works out: the last card I hunted for a while was a '61 Berra. bought it looking like this: It was quite nice once I got it in hand, so I submitted it

08-17-2024, 02:28 PM	#6
Gary Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 646	Clean raw vintage is still out there,i know that as i have a lot of it.Hard part like you said is finding someone that has it and willing to part with it for a descent price.Guys that collected in the 70's and 80's left a lot of their collection raw only grading the key cards. there are some online shops you can by raw that can be trusted BBCE,Greg Morris amongst others,the issue with those is your going to pay.if your in a bigger city you may still find a group that gets together and does B/S/T nights.if you do find a group id suggest buying small and sending in for grading to make sure the group is legit and not some trimming sellers.

08-21-2024, 07:06 PM	#9
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,348 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	There is still a lot of good quality vintage out there, but there are some really solid-eyed collectors/investors poring over it at COMC. And sometimes we're cherry picking from other known collectors. I lucked out recently and bought a clean, semi-centered HOF vintage card for $40 on site, paid for $22 in PSA grading, and it came back a 7 NM. Just sold for $486 through eBay via COMC.

08-22-2024, 08:30 PM	#11
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,348 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	Beautiful pickups.

08-23-2024, 05:34 AM	#12
grizjunkie23 Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 674 grizjunkie23 grizjunkie23	As others have said, COMC and eBay are still good places to get raw vintage. COMC scans are high quality, and you really only have to watch out for hairline creases, etc. eBay is more of a crapshoot with poor photo quality, but you'll catch gems from time to time. These are some raw-to-grade examples from the past year, sourced mainly from COMC and eBay. I like to buy raw Aarons to keep costs down on my Topps run. Feels a little more personal getting them graded myself.

09-04-2024, 05:12 PM	#14
CardFarmer Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 405	It's out there, but getting harder and harder to find. My worry is that when I see a sharp ungraded copy of something, I assume that it must be trimmed or otherwise altered to make it ungradable. I took a gamble on a 1969 Nolan Ryan recently, and when I got it in hand it looked so sharp I had to submit it. Came back a PSA 8, so that was a pretty nice score. Most of the stuff I end up buying are really focused, nice looking cards that would grade a 4 or below due to corners or mild wrinkles.