Big Papi is not happy about Ohtani possibly getting MVP Award

[fabiani12333]

David Ortiz gave MLB reporter Hector Gomez a quote on the NL MVP race a couple of days ago, and his response seems a little bit like sour grapes:

“Im going to see where MLB is going to go this year. They always had a thing to find a way to deny me the MVP because I was a DH. I’ll see what happens this year. I’m going to sit and watch what will happen. Also, you know that Ohtani is the "pretty boy" of the MLB".

Yup -- that's bitterness.

If Ohtani were to win the MVP Award this season, he would be the first full-time DH in MLB history to do so. As a former full-time DH himself and current Hall of Famer, Ortiz finished as high as 2nd place in the MVP voting back in 2005, falling only 24 points short of Alex Rodriguez's 331 points.

The best argument Ortiz probably had for an MVP Award was in 2006, when he finished with the highest home run total in the league with 54, and the 3rd highest OPS with 1.049. The MVP went to Justin Morneau, who ended up with a lower bWAR than Ortiz. Derek Jeter finished 2nd, and he too had a lower bWAR than Ortiz.

As for Ohtani, he currently has both the highest home run total and OPS in the league. He's also a good base runner -- unlike Ortiz, who was a very mediocre base runner -- on pace to steal over 50 bases with only a handful of times being thrown out. Paired with potentially 50 home runs, Ohtani will be the first player in MLB history to have a 50-50 season.

But I think it's a fair question to ask whether a full-time DH should ever be considered the most valuable player in the league. Never playing defense means a player limits the value they can provide their team, especially an athlete as great as Ohtani. It also prevents other players from DHing, which limits a teams ability to make lineup decisions. All of this will surely be overlooked by MLB and baseball writers, who want to promote Ohtani as the face of the game and his season as historic.

While Ortiz wasn't exactly the level of player Ohtani currently is, I think he does have a point about how Ohtani is being given special treatment by MLB and the media.

[Lonewolf]

Who cares about Big Sloppy and his roid-boosted numbers...he's last decades news

[boxbuster7]

There isn't anybody in the national league that is even close to having the stats ohtani does

[OhioLawyerF5]

The irony of Ortiz to complain about special treatment by the media. :rollseyes:

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

David Ortiz gave MLB reporter Hector Gomez a quote on the NL MVP race a couple of days ago, and his response seems a little bit like sour grapes:



Yup -- that's bitterness.

If Ohtani were to win the MVP Award this season, he would be the first full-time DH in MLB history to do so. As a former full-time DH himself and current Hall of Famer, Ortiz finished as high as 2nd place in the MVP voting back in 2005, falling only 24 points short of Alex Rodriguez's 331 points.

The best argument Ortiz probably had for an MVP Award was in 2006, when he finished with the highest home run total in the league with 54, and the 3rd highest OPS with 1.049. The MVP went to Justin Morneau, who ended up with a lower bWAR than Ortiz. Derek Jeter finished 2nd, and he too had a lower bWAR than Ortiz.

As for Ohtani, he currently has both the highest home run total and OPS in the league. He's also a good base runner -- unlike Ortiz, who was a very mediocre base runner -- on pace to steal over 50 bases with only a handful of times being thrown out. Paired with potentially 50 home runs, Ohtani will be the first player in MLB history to have a 50-50 season.

But I think it's a fair question to ask whether a full-time DH should ever be considered the most valuable player in the league. Never playing defense means a player limits the value they can provide their team, especially an athlete as great as Ohtani. It also prevents other players from DHing, which limits a teams ability to make lineup decisions. All of this will surely be overlooked by MLB and baseball writers, who want to promote Ohtani as the face of the game and his season as historic.

While Ortiz wasn't exactly the level of player Ohtani currently is, I think he does have a point about how Ohtani is being given special treatment by MLB and the media.

How can a player receive value in winning player of the week and month awards but not be valued the same way for a season yet be valued enough to earn a HOF nomination. The issue with Blowout members is that they will tarnish certain DH’s and then when the rules are favoring offense so much more with the rule changes that the same numbers they attempt to use are much softer than in the : constant shifting, the abundant relievers for righty / lefty matchups, larger bases, limited amount of pitchers throwing to keep runners close, etc.

There is a transparent reason why many players are offensively having big seasons. I would want to compare situational stats and production stats with other DH’s who finished in the top 5 in the Y2K era. If a player such as Bobby Witt was producing .274% of the Royals runs and Ohtani was at .237% of the Dodgers production, (I know they are in different leagues), who is more valuable to their team ?

[OhioLawyerF5]

You can't look at percentage of team production, because it is by definition dependent on the production of the rest of the team. A player only gets one spot in the lineup. So looking at percentage of team production penalizes a player on a better team, where the other 8 players are scoring more runs.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Stifle

How can a player receive value in winning player of the week and month awards but not be valued the same way for a season yet be valued enough to earn a HOF nomination.

Because a DH can hit at a much higher level over the course of a week or month than they can over the course of a season:


David Ortiz's player of the month selections:

May 2009: 23 G .363/.424/.788, 10 HR, 27 RBI
2009 season: 150 games, .238/.332/.462, 28 HR, 99 RBI
Difference in OPS: -0.418

September 2007: 26 G .396/.517/.824, 9 HR, 27 RBI
2007 season: 149 G, .332/.445/.621, 35 HR, 117 RBI
Difference in OPS: -0.275

July 2006: 26 G .339/.429/.798, 14 HR, 35 RBI
2006 season: 151 G, .287/.413/.636, 54 HR, 137 RBI
Difference in OPS: -0.178

September 2005: 29 G .320/.425/.670, 11 HR, 29 RBI
2005 season: 159 G, .300/.397/.604, 47 HR, 148 RBI
Difference in OPS: -0.094


If Ortiz could have hit like peak Barry Bonds for a full season, sure, he could have been worthy of being the most valuable player.

[JUNKWAX]

David also ran his mouth about Ted Williams' 502 foot Fenway Park home run claiming it didnt happen since nobody has done it since. He seems to have the attitude that if he cant do it than nobody else can either.

[HeritageKing]

Who cares about MVP’s. Ohtani will be judged by what he does or doesn’t do in October.

[Nostalgia]

1995

Edgar led the league in Runs, BA, OBP, and OPS

Finished 3rd in MVP.

Its a travesty that Mo Vaughn won it that year.

[PuddleMonkey]

Did Hector ask Papi any steroid related questions?

[awz50]

Good old big papi

[texmcpherson]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

There isn't anybody in the national league that is even close to having the stats ohtani does

True… however, Lindor also plays the field.

[PeteD]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Who cares about Big Sloppy and his roid-boosted numbers...he's last decades news

[EBCollectibles]

This is a common thing now. Same in WNBA ROY. That race is a landslide.

[speedyjg13]

Originally Posted by HeritageKing

Who cares about MVP’s. Ohtani will be judged by what he does or doesn’t do in October.

A la Trout?

Ring or bust?

[Cracktoast]

While Ohtani no doubt deserving of the MVP Ortiz isn't wrong in that Designated Hitters are generally looked down upon for awards. Edgar Martinez arguably the greatest DH in the history of the game never won a MVP. The closest he got was 3rd place behind Mo Vaughn and Albert Belle in 1995. He ended up with a .312 career batting avg and hit .300 or better in 12 of his 18 seasons, had 300+ Hr and a career OPS of .933

Times have changed but anybody with eyes can see special consideration is given for certain players who play strictly DH today compared to the
80's , 90's, and early pre-2010's.

[vwnut13]

David Ortiz shouldn't be too upset considering he was a first ballot DH steroid user

[cardsin47]

Don’t hate the player, hate the game

[base set]

Which player creates the most ticket sales — for their road games?

Could that be: Shohei Ohtani?

[hammertime]

Some people just have to make everything about themselves.

[rms13]

Papi was the actual definition of MVP. He came through in big moments again and again to win regular season and post season games. The MVP award should be renamed the best offensive player of the year because it doesn't necessarily reflect who was the most valuable to their team. If it was a true MVP then Papi would have had 5-6 MVPs

[rms13]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

Did Hector ask Papi any steroid related questions?

Did he ask Ohtani for any betting tips?

[mikejones]

There's only two big papi I like. Big poppa pump and big poppa.

[redauto5]

I know people aren't going to like this argument because "it's what a player does on the field that matters" and I agree for the most part. BUT full time DH's like Ortiz and Edgar didn't play the field because they sucked at it. This is a huge hole in their game, in their value to the team. Ohtani "could" play the field and play it well, but he's recovering from surgery and oh yeah normally he pitches at a very high level as well. Shohei is a super athletic guy, hence the 50/50 chase. To compare the plodding, beefy, overweight DH's of the 90's and 00's to Ohtani is laughable.

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