Beginning Collecting Vintage

[texmcpherson]

I tried to search for a thread that aligned with the questions I couldn't find anything, if it's out there please post the thread. Nontheless:

My current collection goals has been for HoF auto’s, being that I’ve been at this for 3-4 years my saved searches continue to thin out. While I wait for certain cards to pop up, I think I want to start collecting vintage. I spend roughly $100-$200 a month for cards, usually like to by 1-3 higher value cards in that timeframe. Some questions I have:

- Since my budget will likely keep me out of vintage rookie cards, what should I target? Earlier the better, I presume?

- I only want to buy graded. SGC, PSA, Beckett? What’s the reputation for vintage graded? Assuming, PSA is the way to go.

- What grade should I be targeting? I assume this depends on a number of things like cost, player, year, etc. Is the main focus centering, typically?

- Any other things to know before I start?

[ThoseBackPages]

What is your main goal with buying vintage cards?

To make money? Then i would stick to PSA high grade, high eye appeal of the best of the best. That means Mantle, Aaron, Mays, Jackie, Clemente for Topps Era guys. Ruth, Cobb, Wagner, Big Train and Matty for Pre-War Era.

To collect and own nice cards? Grade and PLayer doesnt matter as much here, go with the best eye appeal you can find/afford

Stick with PSA and SGC for this, as they are the most well known.

[texmcpherson]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

What is your main goal with buying vintage cards?

To make money? Then i would stick to PSA high grade, high eye appeal of the best of the best. That means Mantle, Aaron, Mays, Jackie, Clemente for Topps Era guys. Ruth, Cobb, Wagner, Big Train and Matty for Pre-War Era.

To collect and own nice cards? Grade and PLayer doesnt matter as much here, go with the best eye appeal you can find/afford

Stick with PSA and SGC for this, as they are the most well known.

Nope - it will stay in the collection. Just to start a new collection of cards to chase but the players I will be collecting would retain their value which is always a plus.

[sheetskout]

I do a lot of higher-end vintage and stick to PSA/SGC - mainly because I use PSA's vault to avoid sales tax.

The best advice I can offer you is that grade-levels are all relative depending on the card and each card of a player can be its own market.

Learn the markets for each card your targeting and be patient.

On condition, I concentrate on centering first and foremost as it's the most obvious of the appeal-factors.

[hammertime]

PSA is king, although with vintage SGC is right up there too and you'll find a lot of vintage cards in SGC slabs. Newer slabs may carry a small premium over older slabs because grading standards have gotten harsher. I'd say registration, centering, and lack of fisheyes are important with vintage. It's a lot more about eye appeal than the number on the slab. A well centered card that's graded a 1 because of a little paper loss on the back could be "worth" a lot more than an off-center 4.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Definitely buy the card not the grade. Low grade can have excellent eye appeal over an off centered high grade card. Be patient and don’t settle.

[StankyFire]

Following along as I’ve been looking into hanks 54 topps the last few weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[texmcpherson]

Originally Posted by hammertime

PSA is king, although with vintage SGC is right up there too and you'll find a lot of vintage cards in SGC slabs. Newer slabs may carry a small premium over older slabs because grading standards have gotten harsher. I'd say registration, centering, and lack of fisheyes are important with vintage. It's a lot more about eye appeal than the number on the slab. A well centered card that's graded a 1 because of a little paper loss on the back could be "worth" a lot more than an off-center 4.

All great advice - what is a fish eye?

[Scottish Punk]

PSA and SGC for vintage. Eye appeal matters more. You will be buying in lower grades, so there is a variance in 4's and 5's. You will need to decide if you prefer sharp corners off center or centered with soft corners. If you want both, than you will need to pay up for 7's and 8's.

The Julius Erving rookie is famous for having fish eye. Here is one. Look at his off ball elbow.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/37614031986...Bk9SR6C415PCZQ

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by texmcpherson

All great advice - what is a fish eye?

A print defect you often see on old cards:

[mjohnatgt]

1964 Topps - [Base] #423 - Tops in NL (Hank Aaron, Willie Mays)
Courtesy of COMC.com
More common example in the P of Tops

[texmcpherson]

Thanks for all the great information!

Edit: I assume the fisheye defect is dinged when graded, correct?

[Skipscards]

Posted my answer in the HOF Auto thread, but will add it here for you...happy hunting!

Originally Posted by texmcpherson

My current collection goals has been for HoF auto’s, being that I’ve been at this for 3-4 years my saved searches continue to thin out. While I wait for certain cards to pop up, I think I want to start collecting vintage - the history is rich being that they’re from playing days (same reason I was collecting auto’s) and the value seems to hold (not buying for resale but it’s nice to maintain value in a collection). I spend roughly $100-$200 a month for cards, usually like to by 1-3 higher value cards in that timeframe. Some questions I have:

- Since my budget will likely keep me out of rookie cards, what should I target? Earlier the better, I presume?

- I only want to buy graded. SGC, PSA, Beckett? What’s the reputation for vintage graded?

- What grade should I be targeting? I assume this depends on a number of things like cost, player, year, etc.

- Any other things to know before I start?

In general terms, collecting Vintage is just like collecting Modern in that you should always collect what you like and maintaining a narrow focus helps.

Some people like to do player runs...(i.e. one of each Topps Roberto Clemente card during his playing days.) Obviously Clemente is an expensive run when you factor in his RC but you can typically find his 1955 Topps RC for under $1,000.

Another option is set building. Pick a favorite design and go for it. Obviously early 1950s Topps are cost prohibitive to start from scratch, but 1971 Topps is a great looking set or that can be easily built within your stated budget. I am currently finishing up 1957 and working on 1959.

To answer your specific questions:
- Since my budget will likely keep me out of rookie cards, what should I target? Earlier the better, I presume? Depends on the rookie card. If you were a Cubs fan, you could put the 1954 Cubs Team together including the Banks Rookie at a reasonable price. Yes, earlier cards are typically preferred. In other words, the 1960 Topps Hank Aaron is more desirable than the 1974 Topps. However, the set design can also factor in. For example, the 1952 Topps Mantle is more desirable than the 1951 Bowman. Another example is the 1971 Topps Nolan Ryan. A similarly graded version of the 1971 card is typically more expensive than his 1969 card and probably double his 1970. Also, keep in mind, vintage was distributed in several series. High number cards are typically a lot harder to find and therefore often command a premium. Also, there are DPs out there of some cards because of where the card was on the print sheet creating an abundant supply. Also, some people like collecting the final card of a player's career.

- I only want to buy graded. SGC, PSA, Beckett? What’s the reputation for vintage graded? Historically, PSA is king for vintage. SGC was also big and king of pre-War for a long time. Today, PSA is still the most popular for vintage, however, CGC has started to emerge and is eating into their overall market share a little. Not saying CGC, per se, but they are emerging. My advice is to buy the card you like regardless of SGC, PSA, BGS, or CGC and then crossover if you have OCD. Chances are you could save a lot of money doing this. For me personally, I don't care which of those 4 graded the card if I like the card, especially if I can save some $. Also, don't discount buying raw and submitting yourself. Again, that can save you a lot of money in the long run.

- What grade should I be targeting? I assume this depends on a number of things like cost, player, year, etc.
This is completely subjective. Obviously a PSA 10 of any vintage card is exceedingly rare. But you have to decide if you like the card and proceed from there. Just like buying modern, if it's a card you have to have and it's the only one for sale, you, as a collector, have to make the decision. For me, I don't really care about the grade. Obviously I would love to have nothing but PSA 10s, but I will compromise based on the card itself. A PSA 3 can look fantastic if it's centered or an uncentered PSA 6 can look great if it's sharp in every other way. Heck, I've seen great PSA 1s and Authentics that looked perfect in the front but had been glued in the back so they still present very well.


- Any other things to know before I start? Pick a lane. Like I said, best to start with a small targeted focus and go from there. Don't worry a lot about it since you can always upgrade cards later. That's one big difference between collecting vintage and modern; a lot of place holder purchases with upgrade intentions down the road.

[discodanman45]

If I had to start again, I wouldn't grade or buy any graded many vintage cards after 1966. There are just so many of them out there. The more I get into vintage, the more I find it silly how graded scarcity influences the price.

The 1950 to 1952 Bowman sets are a great place to start IMO. The 1955 and 1956 Topps sets have some great cards in it for a reasonable price as well.

Grade is less important than eye appeal. You want cards with great registration #1. Bad print lines, snowing, fish-eyes, diamond cuts, wrinkles or creases through face, etc... can make 3's wildly different. #2 I look at centering. Having a well centered card that looks like garbage isn't what people want.

[ThoseBackPages]

if you are going to do sets, for the love of god please start at the top

we often here these lines from people...

I'm down to three cards for my 1952 Topps Set! Just need #311, 312 and 407!

Just need one card for my 1986 Fleer Basketball set! #57

the thing is, these people are usually not the type of person that is willing to "Pay up" for the big money cards, but they've spent way more than that getting to the point they are at. Then they give it up and piece it out for what they can get

*IF* you start a set AND get the "big cards" then if you decide to not finish those big cards are easy to move.

[Qubits]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

if you are going to do sets, for the love of god please start at the top

we often here these lines from people...

I'm down to three cards for my 1952 Topps Set! Just need #311, 312 and 407!

Just need one card for my 1986 Fleer Basketball set! #57

the thing is, these people are usually not the type of person that is willing to "Pay up" for the big money cards, but they've spent way more than that getting to the point they are at. Then they give it up and piece it out for what they can get

*IF* you start a set AND get the "big cards" then if you decide to not finish those big cards are easy to move.

I have mostly followed this advice for my T206 HOF run (Cobb was within the first 10 I picked up, Cy Young was within the first five or so) but have not at all for my 33 Goudey. However, that's just because I hate the Yankees so much I'm saving the Ruth and Gehrig for last

For my Clemente run the first card I picked up was the rookie.

[Qubits]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

If I had to start again, I wouldn't grade or buy any graded many vintage cards after 1966. There are just so many of them out there. The more I get into vintage, the more I find it silly how graded scarcity influences the price.

The 1950 to 1952 Bowman sets are a great place to start IMO. The 1955 and 1956 Topps sets have some great cards in it for a reasonable price as well.

Grade is less important than eye appeal. You want cards with great registration #1. Bad print lines, snowing, fish-eyes, diamond cuts, wrinkles or creases through face, etc... can make 3's wildly different. #2 I look at centering. Having a well centered card that looks like garbage isn't what people want.

I agree with you on grade being less important than eye appeal. One of the most enjoyable things about vintage for me is finding cards with great eye appeal for the grade and getting much better deals on them than if I went for a higher grade example with worse centering/registration/etc. As an example, here is my 49 Bowman Jackie I picked up at Charlotte this year:

[StankyFire]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

If I had to start again, I wouldn't grade or buy any graded many vintage cards after 1966. There are just so many of them out there. The more I get into vintage, the more I find it silly how graded scarcity influences the price.

The 1950 to 1952 Bowman sets are a great place to start IMO. The 1955 and 1956 Topps sets have some great cards in it for a reasonable price as well.

Grade is less important than eye appeal. You want cards with great registration #1. Bad print lines, snowing, fish-eyes, diamond cuts, wrinkles or creases through face, etc... can make 3's wildly different. #2 I look at centering. Having a well centered card that looks like garbage isn't what people want.

How many fakes are there in the market? This is the only reason I would prefer to buy graded for vintage.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Qubits

I have mostly followed this advice for my T206 HOF run (Cobb was within the first 10 I picked up, Cy Young was within the first five or so) but have not at all for my 33 Goudey. However, that's just because I hate the Yankees so much I'm saving the Ruth and Gehrig for last

For my Clemente run the first card I picked up was the rookie.

now that is some REAL hate! HAHAHA

[Qubits]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

now that is some REAL hate! HAHAHA

You don't know the half of it. I'm not buying those two cards until every other card on my wishlist has been acquired.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Qubits

You don't know the half of it. I'm not buying those two cards until every other card on my wishlist has been acquired.

RE2PECT!

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by StankyFire

How many fakes are there in the market? This is the only reason I would prefer to buy graded for vintage.

The vast majority of vintage fakes are Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth, and stupidly expensive cards like the T206 Honus Wagner. There are reprints out there, but you just need to look at the back of the card and it will be obvious. I would be more scared buying a 1988 Fleer All-Star Michael Jordan fake than a 1968 Topps Hank Aaron fake.

The amount of fakes is overblown and is used as a scare tactic to force people into graded cards. Yes, you might buy a trimmed card, but there are also tons of trimmed cards in PSA/SGC holders. The "experts" at those companies can't tell the difference most of the time.

Yes, if you are buying a 1933 Goudey Ruth or a 1953 Topps Mantle, buy a graded version. The OP said they want to buy cards in the $100 to $200 range maximum. Very few fakes in that range. 1971 Topps I would not buy unless I saw white on the corners, people will sharpie them in. My entire Hank Aaron run I am working on was bought raw, including a 1955 Topps. Wouldn't be scared to buy a 1954 Topps raw, but most are graded anyways. The eBay guarantee also makes buying raw cards safe over the $250 mark.

[StateEx]

As someone who's dabbled in raw vintage, learn to spot trimming.

Also, figure out which cards you'd buy as "Authentic" because sometimes there are deals to be had for things that are otherwise prohibitively expensive.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by StateEx

As someone who's dabbled in raw vintage, learn to spot trimming.

This unfortunately takes a lot of experience and handling raw cards. The majority of trimmed cards just look weird or just measure way off, so these are easy to spot. However, even things like bat-ears, upward cuts, may just be the way the card was cut from certain years.

If you stay away from the raw cards that look too good to be true, you will also avoid many altered cards. When I buy raw cards, especially more valuable one's, I look for some cards that were gently loved with some corner issues.

[Archangel1775]

To some it may not be vintage but as we get older that should adjust. You can get solid deals on stars in PSA 9 from 1977-1983. Always look for the best centered. PSA 8 HOF rookie cards from 1981-1983 are affordable too.