Brandon Phillips Thinks Getting On Base Is Overrated

[groundsupport]

Brandon Phillips Thinks Getting On Base Is Overrated

Hold on to your butts: baseball season must be approaching, because someone's saying dumb things about the value of getting on base. And, surprise, it's a guy who doesn't do it very often.

USA Today's Bob Nightengale spoke to the Reds' Joey Votto and Brandon Phillips, who could not be more different as people or as hitters. The talk came down to their approaches at the plate—Votto is patient, Phillips is a free swinger—and the Cincinnati second baseman caviled at OBP, which he inexplicably treats like some newfangled, impenatrable formula.

"I don't do that MLB Network on-base percentage (stuff),'' Phillips told USA TODAY Sports. "I think that's messing up baseball. I think people now are just worried about getting paid and worrying about on-base percentage instead of just winning the game.

"That's the new thing now. I feel like all of these stats and all of these geeks upstairs, they're messing up baseball, they're just changing the game. It's all about on-base percentage. If you don't get on base, then you suck. That's basically what they're saying. People don't care about RBI or scoring runs, it's all about getting on base.

"Why we changing the game after all of this time? If we all just took our walks, nobody would be scoring runs. Nobody would be driving anybody in or getting anybody over. How you going to play the game like that? People don't look at doing the things the right way and doing things to help your team win."

If this rant didn't exist, Fire Joe Morgan would have to invent it just to fisk it.

Except, the reaction has been muted so far. No anger. No frustration that the game's dinosaurs can't comprehend basic concepts. Just some eye-rolling at Phillips's comments, and knowing glances at each other, because there's nothing to be argued here: he's wrong, and most everyone knows it, and that's okay.

(It appears Phillips will hit third this season, right behind Votto. I wonder if Phillips will mind how Votto got on base when he's knocking in his teammate.)

There's a more generous reading of Phillips's comments. Despite his gripes about "all of these stats and all of these geeks," maybe he's just talking about batting styles, and the undesirability of trying to turn a hitter into something he's not. And what's more—Phillips is 33, and probably not about to radically change his approach—it's about the lack of control an older player can feel when he's seen the definition of value change around him.

"I remember back in the day you hit .230, you suck. Nowadays, you hit .230 with a .400 on-base percentage, you're one of the best players in the game. That's amazing. I've never seen (stuff) like that. Times have changed. It's totally different now."

He's absolutely right, and the change has been remarkable, and got to be unsettling for a player who has found himself on the wrong side of the equation. But it's not Phillips's job to accept it, and no one should care if Phillips thinks Joey Votto's not maximizing his talent. The only thing that might matter is if Reds coaches and front office personnel were inexplicably trying to change Votto. Well, still trying to change him.

[markinca]

Hey Brandon, how do you get an RBI? How do you score runs? How do you win baseball games? I don't suppose any of those would be related to getting people on base, would it?

[jmscoggin]

Originally Posted by markinca

Hey Brandon, how do you get an RBI? How do you score runs? How do you win baseball games? I don't suppose any of those would be related to getting people on base, would it?

Exactly. I'm not smart enough to understand most Sabermetrics but I'm smart enough to know that getting on base is the most important offensive ability there is. Can't score if you can't get on.

[Turd Ferguson]

As a human being, I like Brandon, I really do. With the exception of him opening his mouth after the Votto contract and complaining (which was a stupid thing to do [yes, both contracts and the complaining!]), I don't usually see him giving guff.

As a fan, I appreciate the defensive skills and the smiles on the field - he genuinely looks like he enjoys what he does. As a fan, I'm not impressed offensively. OBP is not the only stat, both pre- and post-sabremetrics, where he lacks for hitting in the two-hole. Dude needs to be dropped, IMO.

[chris_ac]

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

Can't score if you can't get on.

Actually, a solo HR is technically scoring without holding a base. Of course it counts in your total bases number and goes toward OBP.

[jmscoggin]

Originally Posted by chris_ac

Actually, a solo HR is technically scoring without holding a base. Of course it counts in your total bases number and goes toward OBP.

Hitting a HR is getting on base and you defined it yourself, you get four bases for doing so. Anything that isn't an out counts. You only get 27 chances to get on and you have to maximize any ability to do so. Funny how you debunked your own argument.

[Keyser Soze]

Brandon Phillips is an amazing person and......

AHHH nevermind, I can't do it. I'll have to fulfill my Houdini contest prerequisite elsewhere

[chris_ac]

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

Hitting a HR is getting on base and you defined it yourself, you get four bases for doing so. Anything that isn't an out counts. You only get 27 chances to get on and you have to maximize any ability to do so. Funny how you debunked your own argument.

By baseball definition yes, but by semantics no. Yes a HR is a hit, but everything short of it is actually getting on and holding a base.

[jmscoggin]

Originally Posted by chris_ac

By baseball definition yes, but by semantics no. Yes a HR is a hit, but everything short of it is actually getting on and holding a base.

Good thing I'm a baseball fan and not a semantics fan.

[bubbs11]

Situational hitting doesn't compute in OBP.

Example: 2 run game 6th inning versus a team with a great bullpen.
Lead off double from Votto. Phillips hits an 0-1 slider on the ground to 2nd and Votto moves over. Jay Bruce fly ball for sac fly.

All productive "run" stats in that situation wouldn't exist without the out.

My only issue with trying to quantify all value in baseball

[groundsupport]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

Brandon Phillips is an amazing person and......

AHHH nevermind, I can't do it. I'll have to fulfill my Houdini contest prerequisite elsewhere

[jmscoggin]

Originally Posted by bubbs11

Situational hitting doesn't compute in OBP.

Example: 2 run game 6th inning versus a team with a great bullpen.
Lead off double from Votto. Phillips hits an 0-1 slider on the ground to 2nd and Votto moves over. Jay Bruce fly ball for sac fly.

All productive "run" stats in that situation wouldn't exist without the out.

My only issue with trying to quantify all value in baseball

As was mentioned above, none of this is possible without getting people on base first. Also, I'd still rather have guys continuing to get on base than giving up outs to move guys over. I've always hated the above strategy unless the game winning run is in play.

[Soxrule111]

If someone gets HBP, reach on Error then 2 sac flies. Wouldn't that be 2 runs and an OBP of 0?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by Soxrule111

If someone gets HBP, reach on Error then 2 sac flies. Wouldn't that be 2 runs and an OBP of 0?

Would be an OPB of .250 (hit by pitch counts).

Phillips admission just continues to show why the Reds are a dysfunctional organization. From trying to get Votto to swing more, to having Chapman throw 60 innings a season ... for whatever reason this group of players and management have no idea what's going on in the game around them.

Destined to finish last in the NL Central for a good long time. (Milwaukee might challenge them in the future).

[texmcpherson]

Don't tell Billy Beane.

[xbignick]

Originally Posted by texmcpherson

Don't tell Billy Beane.

Attachment 274055

The funny thing is he would probably call Billy Pitt a nerd, not realizing he played professional baseball after being a first round pick.