Greening affect on Chrome Cards. Experts Wanted!

[shindo03]

I have decided to only PC rookie base cards, with that being said I wanted some expertise on the "greening" or "hulking" affect on chrome cards. Here are a few questions I compiled:

1. Is greening due to oxidizing or damage from sunlight (UV)?

2. I know BGS and Ultra Pro have UV protection, does PSA have UV protection as well?

3. 1996 Topps Chrome is notorious for greening, does this hold true for 1997? Does it hold true for 2003? Does it hold true for Prizm? Which leads me to my next question.

4. Maybe it has nothing to do with oxidizing or damage from sunlight, but just aging?

This whole topic was brought to my attention in this thread:

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/b...et-values.html

It kind of went off topic so I thought I'd make a new thread.

[UltimateDeron]

I think it has everything to do with displaying your cards in the sunlight/daylight.

Alot of 90's cards have sat for decades in display cases in card shops. That is why you see alot of 90's Chrome/Finest cards turning green/yellow.

I don't think you'll find as many cards from the 00's that are turning green/yellow due to people becoming smarter with how they store their cards and shops dying all across the US.

[shindo03]

UltimateDeron thanks for the insight.

[rimshaqer34]

Probably sunlight is not the main problem, my chrome/finest/refractors cards were never exposed to sunlight, but greening effect were still there. In my opinion humidity is the main cause of it, and someone told me it has something to do with the "older" plastic sleeves that aren't acid free. You do remember older sleeve; thin and easily wrinkled not like newer sleeves.

I live in tropical country where humidity is high, many cards owned by my friends also experience this greening effect, mostly when in the 90s we don't really take a good care of our cards. Now we just store them in a dry, low humidity storage

Just my 2cents

[bigaust001]

Originally Posted by rimshaqer34

Probably sunlight is not the main problem, my chrome/finest/refractors cards were never exposed to sunlight, but greening effect were still there. In my opinion humidity is the main cause of it, and someone told me it has something to do with the "older" plastic sleeves that aren't acid free. You do remember older sleeve; thin and easily wrinkled not like newer sleeves.

I live in tropical country where humidity is high, many cards owned by my friends also experience this greening effect, mostly when in the 90s we don't really take a good care of our cards. Now we just store them in a dry, low humidity storage

Just my 2cents

I don't know how much humidity would have to do with it, as many have greened while in BGS/PSA cases. I do believe that the acid cases could have something to do with it, but ultimately I believe it is the card reacting to light.

[AbraCalabro]

Humidity is the only one I can't disprove.

The others, sunlight and penny sleeves in the earlier 90s are not part of the cause. I know this for a fact because I opened a sealed box of 94/95 Topps Finest series 2 a couple years ago. Cards had the green/white discoloration problem having been sealed for so long, they were never exposed to sunlight, or light of any kind for that matter and were never in sleeves, obviously.

I do not know how the box was stored, since I purchased it on eBay, but it was sealed and all the packs were unopened. So perhaps, humidity is a cause, or contributing factor, but the other two, not possible.

My guess is that the ink and plastic they used ended up reacting to one another in an unintended way and causing the discoloration issues. Perhaps humidity is the catalyst in causing the reaction, I have never seen a discolored back on any of those cards, only the front and the discoloration is under the front surface.

I don't know if any of you have ever taken a finest card apart before, but I have and there is a thin plastic, or maybe acetate, whatever and the actual image is a stretchy material. Very similar to a vinyl sticker, you know those things that don't have any adhesive, but you can stick them to clean plastic surfaces, or glass? Similar to that.

[shindo03]

can anybody answer my questions from number 1 through 4 hahahaha?

[AbraCalabro]

with that being said I wanted some expertise on the "greening" or "hulking" affect on chrome cards.

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

Humidity is the only one I can't disprove.

The others, sunlight and penny sleeves in the earlier 90s are not part of the cause. I know this for a fact because I opened a sealed box of 94/95 Topps Finest series 2 a couple years ago. Cards had the green/white discoloration problem having been sealed for so long, they were never exposed to sunlight, or light of any kind for that matter and were never in sleeves, obviously.

I do not know how the box was stored, since I purchased it on eBay, but it was sealed and all the packs were unopened. So perhaps, humidity is a cause, or contributing factor, but the other two, not possible.

My guess is that the ink, or plastic they used ended up reacting to one another in an unintended way and causing the discoloration issues. Perhaps humidity is the catalyst in causing the reaction, I have never seen a discolored back on any of those cards, only the front and the discoloration is under the front surface.

I don't know if any of you have ever taken a finest card apart before, but I have and there is a thin plastic, or maybe acetate, whatever and the actual image is a stretchy material. Very similar to a vinyl sticker, you know those things that don't have any adhesive, but you can stick them to clean plastic surfaces, or glass? Similar to that.

Originally Posted by shindo03

can anybody answer my questions from number 1 through 4 hahahaha?

1. Is greening due to oxidizing or damage from sunlight (UV)?

NO.

2. I know BGS and Ultra Pro have UV protection, does PSA have UV protection as well?

LIMITED.

3. 1996 Topps Chrome is notorious for greening, does this hold true for 1997? Does it hold true for 2003? Does it hold true for Prizm? Which leads me to my next question.

1997, YES.
2003, Haven't seen any examples of discoloration, problem seems to have been resolved.
Prizm, too early to tell, but probably not.

4. Maybe it has nothing to do with oxidizing or damage from sunlight, but just aging?

NO.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by shindo03

I have decided to only PC rookie base cards, with that being said I wanted some expertise on the "greening" or "hulking" affect on chrome cards. Here are a few questions I compiled:

1. Is greening due to oxidizing or damage from sunlight (UV)?

2. I know BGS and Ultra Pro have UV protection, does PSA have UV protection as well?

3. 1996 Topps Chrome is notorious for greening, does this hold true for 1997? Does it hold true for 2003? Does it hold true for Prizm? Which leads me to my next question.

4. Maybe it has nothing to do with oxidizing or damage from sunlight, but just aging?

I do not consider myself an expert but I will chime in. I have completed base 1996 chrome sets and am now working on a refractor set. I have also owned 1994 finest rookies in PSA holders. My opinions and experience with greening and fading for these cards comes mainly from those cards I have owned and from listings/scans on ebay or comc.

1) I do not know how big a role sunlight plays on the greening effect. I have a psa 1994 Grant Hill finest that has completely faded over the years. When I bought it about 10 years ago, it had no signs of fading. I just recently found it in a box and it looks nothing at all like the card I purchased years ago. I had other raw 1994 finest cards in the same box and they look just as fresh as they did 20 years ago.

The PSA card was not exposed to sunlight in all those years, so perhaps humidity or heat played a role.

2) I think all sheets, top loaders and holders have very minimal UV protections. Not much, even if they say otherwise.

3) From scans and pictures I have seen on ebay, 1997 Chrome cards do have the same greening and fading issues as 1996 Chrome. I have multiples of some cards from 1996 that I obtained from different sources and some cards are more likely to green/fade than others. Furthermore, the cards that do fade and turn green do so in the same exact places. For the Kobe, this is noticeable on his biceps near the ball and on the T-Wolves player leg and armpit. The worst examples where the entire card is faded (like my Grant Hill) are likely due to a combination of heat, sunlight or humidity.

One more card that has greening/fading issues in the same spots. I have copies of Shareef in PSA and raw forms and the ones that have greening/fading have it in the exact same spots as this card. There are other cards that have similar patterns and others that surprisingly experience almost no fading or greening at all.


1996-97 Topps Chrome #128 - Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Courtesy of COMC.com

4) I do think aging might play a role. It is hard to tell. Like I mentioned earlier about my Grant Hill cards, the raw copies of 1994 finest look very good to this day.

In conclusion, there are a couple of potential issues when it comes to greening and fading. Certain cards will only experience minimal fading in the same places, while other cards will fade/green entirely. The manufacturing process and the ink used is most likely the main culript. Basketball Chrome cards after 1998 no longer had this effect.

[mindcycle]

I bought two sealed boxes of 97-98 topps chrome last year and almost all of the cards were greened, some worse than others.

I can't find the link right now, but I was reading something back when I opened those that said that the greening was due to the chemicals used in the manufacturing process during that time period. They switched up the process after that year, which don't really see it continue past 1998 or so.

[rimshaqer34]

I just checked my cards collection, on a few cards from the same year, greening effect non existed, while other few got the greening effect. They were stored in the same place same way during the same time. Guess it is kinda random?

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

Humidity is the only one I can't disprove.

The others, sunlight and penny sleeves in the earlier 90s are not part of the cause. I know this for a fact because I opened a sealed box of 94/95 Topps Finest series 2 a couple years ago. Cards had the green/white discoloration problem having been sealed for so long, they were never exposed to sunlight, or light of any kind for that matter and were never in sleeves, obviously.

I do not know how the box was stored, since I purchased it on eBay, but it was sealed and all the packs were unopened. So perhaps, humidity is a cause, or contributing factor, but the other two, not possible.

My guess is that the ink and plastic they used ended up reacting to one another in an unintended way and causing the discoloration issues. Perhaps humidity is the catalyst in causing the reaction, I have never seen a discolored back on any of those cards, only the front and the discoloration is under the front surface.

I don't know if any of you have ever taken a finest card apart before, but I have and there is a thin plastic, or maybe acetate, whatever and the actual image is a stretchy material. Very similar to a vinyl sticker, you know those things that don't have any adhesive, but you can stick them to clean plastic surfaces, or glass? Similar to that.

Reaction in materials used, yes, humidity being the catalyst, probably.

[myusasets]

never have seen greening in 93-94 finest and its not that common in later years of finest it has to have something to do with the manufacturing process of those years.

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by myusasets

never have seen greening in 93-94 finest and its not that common in later years of finest it has to have something to do with the manufacturing process of those years.

Just threw away several 1993-94 finest basketball cards that were all greened including a Dan Majerle refractor.

[blastman]

I have a stack of 96-97 Chrome commons in a slider box for probably 15+ years now.
There is no discoloration. I don't have any refractors to compare though.

[xavieronly1]

Humidity is #1 problem. You can see more green cards in Asian collection than in US. Even PSA/BGS holder would not stop the green.

Another problem is that, up to 1998, those Finest/Chrome used an older printing technology. I think around 1998-99, the printing process improved to slow down the green problem. You can easily find "green" Tim Duncan Chrome, but you can't find "green" Vince Carter Chrome.

[MIDNITE Z]

How much will this effect the value of the cards?

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by MIDNITE Z

How much will this effect the value of the cards?

I think the discolored cards are borderline throwaways, of course guys that have BGS 9.5 Kobe cards that have turned into big rectangular boogers will argue otherwise. No one wants that discolored crap and the only time they will take one is if they can't find a better copy.

It amazes me that those cards can ever grade that high, even after being discolored when submitted for grading and yet they grade unpeeled Finest surfaces based on the condition of the coating as opposed to the actual surface of the card which is PRISTINE seeing as how the coating is still on there.

I wouldn't even pay 10 dollars for this unless I had a sinister plot to flip it to some poor sucker that wanted to pay hundreds of dollars for it:

[rttrffg2012]

You can not stop greening. They will all be green one day

[MIDNITE Z]

Is there anyway to prevent this from happening?

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by MIDNITE Z

Is there anyway to prevent this from happening?

Yes, absolutely. If your card is still clean, you need to store it in dry conditions. I have some Finest and Chrome cards from as far back as 94/95 and 96/97 respectively and they are undamaged by the reaction that moisture causes.

The difference in a well preserved card and a damaged card are night and day as you can clearly see.

[I only pull for]

Anyone have any experience with the Atomic refractors from Bowman's best turning green? Same technology as the finest and Chrome refractors, but all of mine have remained green free.

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by I only pull for

Anyone have any experience with the Atomic refractors from Bowman's best turning green? Same technology as the finest and Chrome refractors, but all of mine have remained green free.

96/97 Bowman's can turn discolored if not properly stored.

As for the Duncan, I personally have never seen a discolored card from that particular product. (At least I don't recall ever seeing one at the moment.) They did finally fix the issue near the tail end of the 90s and that could have been near the end of 98/99, or slightly earlier.

It's all about preservation with these cards in optimal conditions, they're beautiful cards, which makes it more unfortunate that they need to be stored in cool, dry and preferably dark conditions.

[I only pull for]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

96/97 Bowman's can turn discolored if not properly stored.

As for the Duncan, I personally have never seen a discolored card from that particular product. (At least I don't recall ever seeing one at the moment.) They did finally fix the issue near the tail end of the 90s and that could have been near the end of 98/99, or slightly earlier.

It's all about preservation with these cards in optimal conditions, they're beautiful cards, which makes it more unfortunate that they need to be stored in cool, dry and preferably dark conditions.

Thanks, I agree with you on the humidity being a main factor on these turning green. I don't search many of the Bowman's best atomic refractors any more, but haven't noticed any of them Hulking. Hopefully at least a few of these refractor sets from the mid-90's can make it.
Your Flair set build was a smart set to build- rare, beautiful, and no greening.

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by I only pull for

Thanks, I agree with you on the humidity being a main factor on these turning green. I don't search many of the Bowman's best atomic refractors any more, but haven't noticed any of them Hulking. Hopefully at least a few of these refractor sets from the mid-90's can make it.
Your Flair set build was a smart set to build- rare, beautiful, and no greening.

I agree, I also hope that there are treasures from the 90s that will remain unscathed and thanks on the Flair comment, I appreciate it. I would honestly have made an attempt at building more Finest / Chrome / Bowman's sets including parallels, but for reasons we've discussed in this thread, decided not to...it's a shame, because I love 96/97 Bowman's, really a top notch set with great design.