eBay user VOLIMUS -- you be the judge

[JMPKCP]

Bought a card from volimus on October 29th during the infamous eBay downtime. Got a great price.

1986 Star Michael Jordan #2 "collegiate stats" BGS 9.5 10-CARD Subset SET BREAK

And here are all the messages that followed. I'm a completely transparent guy, so feel free to judge how you will. Was going to respect volimus' initial request to keep things private, but not after his last message to me. Still not revealing his name, I'll respect that much privacy. My messages are in blue, his are in red.

October 29th - 8:37 P.M.
Dear volimus,
I heard about the ebay outage and realize that I got this card for way less than I should've. If roles were reversed, I'd want a buyer to offer to cancel without any issue. If you'd like to cancel this, I totally understand, and I'll even initiate it if you don't want to worry about negative feedback, which I'd never leave any way.

October 30th - 3:09 P.M.
Dear volimus,
Still waiting to hear back from you....

October 30th - 11 P.M.
Dear volimus,
still waiting....

October 31st - 1:29 P.M.
Dear jmpkcp,
Hello,
I was just able to get on the phone with ebay to see what they can do to rectify the situation. I've obviously never had this happen before as this is unfair on so many levels. Not just for me, but for you, and the bidders who could not get their bids in. I am most likely going to fulfill everything as long as ebay can make some kind of concession to make things right. The ebay higher-ups are supposed to be calling me back by tomorrow afternoon, so hopefully your card goes out Monday. I am a member on BO, and saw the thread you created about the down time and this card. I am a private person and would prefer you not use screenshots of our messages, or use my name, but you can let the folks who were criticizing you know, the seller thinks you are a hell of a stand up guy for the message you sent, though I think you've already proven that to them. It's just really unfortunate this happened. I'll keep you posted on what ebay says, and the status of your card as soon as I hear something.

October 31st - 1:56 P.M.
Dear volimus,
Nice to know you're on BO! I will be sure to respect your privacy. The screencap I posted doesn't show any of your info, thankfully. I appreciate the comments, but I won't be posting that on BO or I'll get the usual 'screencap or it didn't happen' response. Unfortunately, I'm certain eBay won't do anything for you. I wish they would, but they won't. Other than maybe seller fees refunded or removal of negative feedback if you don't honor sales, they won't step up for you. I spent the money I had earmarked for this purchase because I was 100% certain the seller (you) would want to cancel given the chance. I can raise the funds to pay for it if you need me to, but I'm not a Jordan PCer, so it's no loss for me to not get this card other than the price aspect, which was an insane closing price. I've heard no snipe services worked during the downtime. Sorry this happened to you.

November 2nd - 4:58 A.M.
Dear jmpkcp,
Well ebay mgmt did not get back with me yesterday as they said they would, but I am going to follow up with them. I've decided to fulfill all winning bids. It will definitely cost me money, but I feel it is the most fair way to go about it. Hopefully ebay steps up to the plate to make things right on my end. If you pay by 4pm EST it will go out today. Thank you for your business.
BTW, I don't know if you are a serious PC guy or more of a flipper, but take it from someone who's been in the hobby almost 30 years. Don't sell it for a quick profit. MJ high graded star, especially the 101 RC is the best investment in sports cards. If they ever become appreciated like they were in the late 80s/early 90s (which seems to finally be happening after years of misinformation), when everybody in the hobby considered his 101 to be his true rc, all star cards will take off imo. Disclosure: I do own a bunch of star, but there's a reason for it!

November 3rd - 4:08 P.M.
Dear jmpkcp,
Well you were right, ebay did not step up or really do anything other than refunding final fees just for those auctions impacted. Most people take that and don't follow up. I am not one of those people. I will mail the higher ups at ebay, and if I don't get a response, I'll file a complaint to the BBB, and they will have to answer. I run 3 businesses, and just because you have a policy, doesn't mean that policy is legal or ethical. If you'd like I'll keep you posted with what happens. I did mail out the other listings today, obviously at a tremendous loss. Yours is the only one left. Please let me know when you plan to pay.

November 3rd - 4:21 P.M.
Dear volimus,
I don't plan to pay.
Sorry, I didn't get back to you sooner, but I just saw yesterday's message just now. You've suffered enough and I have zero emotion about losing out on getting this card. As I said, you should cancel the transaction and I'll immediately approve it.
I also would like to help you in your quest since I've been burnt by this several times. I, too, will be drafting a letter to the BBB. I figure what you lost in sales, and what I have lost in sales, is grand larceny by eBay. ZERO seller protection!!!

November 3rd - 4:36 P.M.
Dear jmpkcp,
Why not pay? I appreciate the gesture, but I've already sent out the other items, and relisting a card from a set break never works out well for a seller. Take the deal and be done with it. If you need the money for something else, I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem selling it (probably at a profit). Almost 14 years on the bay and I've never encountered anything like this. After speaking to the rep yesterday, I'm going to go through ebay the message system so a manager can see everything in front of them, and hopefully that helps them see this is a very unique case. I'll keep you posted with how everything goes.

November 3rd - 4:50 P.M.
Dear volimus,
Why not pay? The same reason I told you minutes after the auction ended and several times since. You've already admitted yourself that you're taking a huge loss on all of these. I have no deep need for this card -- so if you don't want to take a big loss on it as well, don't sell to me. Take me up on the gesture. You could list this in a buy it now for $100+ what I bought it for and it'd sell in no time. I'm just not a seller anymore, as I'm on strike against eBay. But if you're a glutton for punishment, I'll happily pay. It just doesn't make sense for you to admit that you're losing money and to have a 'get out of jail' card from me and not use it. In fact, it's kinda weird.

November 3rd - 4:55 P.M.
Dear jmpkcp,
Basically because I'm just moving on from it. Not that I won't follow up with ebay, but as I said relisting from a set break never works. Don't sell it, especially if you're not selling on ebay right now. This could be a very valuable card in time imo.

November 3rd - 4:58 P.M.
Dear volimus,
I only keep PC stuff. This would just be immediately flipped. It literally would be in my possession as little as possible. The whole eBay thing in the past cost me so much in sales, that buying this card from you puts a bad taste in my mouth. I'd rather not complete the transaction because then it makes me think about how many buyers got steals from me. But if you're forcing me to buy it, I guess I have no other choice. Let me know your final decision.

November 3rd - 7:57 P.M.
Dear jmpkcp,
I would prefer to complete the transaction. Depending on who's bidding I only lost 50-100 on this particular card, and that's worth it for me to move on. Its the other cards, and the fact i had all nine ending when ebay went down. One guy told me I lost @800-1000 easy. I don't recall a set break like this offered at true auction, so who knows?

November 3rd - 8:00 P.M.
Dear volimus,
Fine, payment coming, even though I don't want the card.


So then the card arrives, and the top left corner of the case is clearly cracked. Here is the pic from the auction listing.


And here it is blown up. As you can see it was much smaller in the listing.


And if you look really closely in the expanded picture of it, you can see the start of the damage, but the picture is clearly taken to not show the true damage...very easy to miss. He could've taken more than one picture. Also of note, HE DID NOT DISCLOSE THE DAMAGE in the auction details or description. So I send this today...

November 9th - 2:51 P.M.
Dear volimus,
ugh, seriously? Even after all that back and forth, you didn't want to disclose to me that the BGS case was damaged? It was not disclosed in the listing, and one would have to go to a desktop and blow up your listing picture to see that the top left corner was damaged, of which you conveniently positioned the card so it would be easy to miss. Obviously I want to return this. I'll start the return process now.

Get back this less than friendly response...
November 9th - 5:14 P.M.
Dear jmpkcp,
Are you talking about the little chip in the upper left hand corner that's clearly visible from the picture provided? I didn't position anything in any way to hide anything. I just looked at the listing, and the minuscule chip, which doesn't affect the card/value in any way IS CLEARLY VISIBLE! You're obviously using this to make a return on a card you didn't want - which is pretty clear from the messages you sent AFTER you won the bid. One question: Why would you bid on something you didn't want in the first place? I already know the answer and I will be calling ebay and paypal tomorrow as well. I now see what people on BO are talking about. I've also seen some other posts since then now I know who you are, and what I'd say to you isn't allowed on these messages, but I'm happy to call and discuss it further. I was going to go on there and stand up for you, Glad I didn't. You are a real piece of work, and extremely transparent . As the listing states, there are no returns. If you had any questions, you should have asked BEFORE bidding as the listing clearly states. I provide the highest resolution pics ebay allows so this doesn't happen. For you to outright accuse me of hiding it on purpose is outrageous! I've been in this hobby almost 30 years and have never been accused of anything underhanded. Again, I can clearly see what you are trying to do, so I will take appropriate action.

My final response to him...since I'll clearly let eBay handle this now...
November 9th - 5:18 P.M.
Dear volimus,
Actually, condition of the BGS case is very important to me. I use eBay mobile and that crack is not easily visible. Your picture clearly cuts it off...you could've taken a picture that actually showed it and/or put it in your auction description. If I didn't want the card, I wouldn't have paid for it. You think I want my money tied up for weeks? You're jumping to a crazy conclusion.




I really felt bad that this guy, by his own admission as well, lost money on his auction listings. I gave him every opportunity to back out of the deal with no damage, and his reasoning for going through with the deal were...unusual. In the end I paid for the item and was going to be glad with my purchase once memory of how I got it wore off. But clearly I'm not going to buy something and then return it just to be a jerk and have my money tied up for a month. And I certainly am not going to keep it and pay reholdering and shipping fees just so it is fixed. Oh well....I'm sure I can name a few people who follow me around who will come in and bash, but I welcome honest reactions from respectable members.

[JMPKCP]

Well, the seller has begrudgingly agreed to a return with all of the usual comments...

1. Karma is going to get me
2. I played the system
3. I'm everything that is wrong with the hobby.
4. He'll be videotaping the opening to make sure I didn't do anything nefarious (yes, he actually used that word)

I got everything but a "god bless"

[bigaust001]

Looks as if there's a bit of damage on the lower right hand corner too. Honestly, I think it's visible in the smaller picture, and by no means would you be taking a loss if you just kept the card and let it be.

[JMPKCP]

Originally Posted by bigaust001

Looks as if there's a bit of damage on the lower right hand corner too. Honestly, I think it's visible in the smaller picture, and by no means would you be taking a loss if you just kept the card and let it be.

Definitely visible on a desktop. But not highlighted or even disclosed. And not visible at all on eBay mobile, which is predominantly how I buy.

And I wouldn't be taking a loss, but it definitely affects the value.

[JCC]

Your messages make is seem like you were trying to get out of the deal rather than pay. May not have been your intent, but that is how it reads. That being said the seller very clearly was attempting to hide the damage with the position of the photo. The damage should have also been disclosed in the description. As a buyer, I feel like I should not have to play where's waldo, trying to find damage a seller is attempting to conceal. That overrides the no return policy in my mind, and you deserve to get your money back if that is what you want.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by bigaust001

Looks as if there's a bit of damage on the lower right hand corner too. Honestly, I think it's visible in the smaller picture, and by no means would you be taking a loss if you just kept the card and let it be.

To me it is not about whether he is able to resell, if damage is attempted to be concealed, a return should be an option.

[JMPKCP]

Originally Posted by JCC

Your messages make is seem like you were trying to get out of the deal rather than pay. May not have been your intent, but that is how it reads. That being said the seller very clearly was attempting to hide the damage with the position of the photo. The damage should have also been disclosed in the description. As a buyer, I feel like I should not have to play where's waldo, trying to find damage a seller is attempting to conceal. That overrides the no return policy in my mind, and you deserve to get your money back if that is what you want.

I can definitely see that it can be read that way....I should've been more clear and said "I don't want this card THIS WAY" which is what my true meaning was. And I agree with your comment about damage/returns. If there is ANY damage to a BGS slab that is this significant, it should be shown clearly in a picture...maybe even in a picture of its own. AND it NEEDS to be disclosed in a description.

Originally Posted by JCC

To me it is not about whether he is able to resell, if damage is attempted to be concealed, a return should be an option.

Agreed.

[JMPKCP]

Well, the seller has begrudgingly agreed to a return with all of the usual comments...

1. Karma is going to get me
2. I played the system
3. I'm everything that is wrong with the hobby.
4. He'll be videotaping the opening to make sure I didn't do anything nefarious (yes, he actually used that word)

I got everything but a "god bless"

[wheeler281]

Pretty visible to me in the listing. You no doubt wanted out of this purchase. I think you paid knowing you had a technical out that was clearly visible. That being said its eBay and he has to know he had to take the return. Beckett has sent me 3 diff cards where the corner is shipped in transit. Does not affect price imo.

[JMPKCP]

Originally Posted by wheeler281

Pretty visible to me. You no doubt wanted out of this purchase. I think you paid knowing you had a technical out that was clearly visible. That being said its eBay and he has to know he had to take the return.

Yup, I paid even though I didn't have to. No non-paying bidder strikes against me. So I paid knowing full well that I was just going to receive it and turn around and return it...thereby holding my money hostage for up to a month's time. Makes perfect sense. Totally convenient for me to do it this way....geesh.

[TaToRz]

Originally Posted by JMPKCP

Well, the seller has begrudgingly agreed to a return with all of the usual comments...

1. Karma is going to get me
2. I played the system
3. I'm everything that is wrong with the hobby.
4. He'll be videotaping the opening to make sure I didn't do anything nefarious (yes, he actually used that word)

I got everything but a "god bless"

what did you pay for it? you could have offered it right here for a profit or to get your money back (showing the damage of course).

Just another solution to this mess should you want to go another route.

oh.. god bless :-D

TaToRz

[limitedplay]

Unlike my previous support for the guy that actually took the card out of the case and provided a scan of the actual card. This is definitely a quality assurance issue. He has no exuse not to give you a full refund on the card.

[wheeler281]

Originally Posted by JMPKCP

Yup, I paid even though I didn't have to. No non-paying bidder strikes against me. So I paid knowing full well that I was just going to receive it and turn around and return it...thereby holding my money hostage for up to a month's time. Makes perfect sense. Totally convenient for me to do it this way....geesh.

You would not be the first that paid knowing they were going to return. Especially thinking that he might just create an NPB thread here. Your messages from jump street were trying to blame eBay. I think this a classic case of someone putting in a bid not expecting to win. Seriously that corner was pretty obvious. Either way he has to refund which he is so its over

[JMPKCP]

Originally Posted by wheeler281

You would not be the first that paid knowing they were going to return. Especially thinking that he might just create an NPB thread here. Your messages from jump street were trying to blame eBay. I think this a classic case of someone putting in a bid not expecting to win.

Sometimes it helps to know what you're actually talking about before you speak. This was during the eBay outage where people weren't able to access eBay let alone place bids. And my bid was WELL above what I won it for. That's why it was shocking I got it. If I didn't want the card in the first place, I wouldn't have paid for it. You're just grasping at straws here...but it's no surprise you showed up here.

[JMPKCP]

Originally Posted by TaToRz

what did you pay for it? you could have offered it right here for a profit or to get your money back (showing the damage of course).

Just another solution to this mess should you want to go another route.

oh.. god bless :-D

TaToRz

It's a thought...but if I put it up for sale here and no one buys it and THEN I try to return it, I end up looking like a jerk. If rather fix a problem at the source than trying to fix a problem by potentially creating another one.

Originally Posted by limitedplay

Unlike my previous support for the guy that actually took the card out of the case and provided a scan of the actual card. This is definitely a quality assurance issue. He has no exuse not to give you a full refund on the card.

Thank you, appreciate the common sense and support!

[wheeler281]

Originally Posted by JMPKCP

Sometimes it helps to know what you're actually talking about before you speak. This was during the eBay outage where people weren't able to access eBay let alone place bids. And my bid was WELL above what I won it for. That's why it was shocking I got it. If I didn't want the card in the first place, I wouldn't have paid for it. You're just grasping at straws here...but it's no surprise you showed up here.

So you are one of those guys that creates a thread and wants everyone to agree. If they dont its because they don't have common sense. I know what happened. I sell and buy quite frequently on there. Won a couple auctions for less and not once message the sellers trying to talk him out of the sale.
I said he has to refund but to play it like you didn't know what you were doing is a good read anyways. Glad he is refunding and he will get the card back

[JMPKCP]

Originally Posted by wheeler281

So you are one of those guys that creates a thread and wants everyone to agree. If they dont its because they don't have common sense. I know what happened. I sell and buy quite frequently on there. Won a couple auctions for less and not once message the sellers trying to talk him out of the sale.
I said he has to refund but to play it like you didn't know what you were doing is a good read anyways. Glad he is refunding and he will get the card back

No, I'm not that guy. You're just missing the logic of the situation.

If I wanted out of buying the card, here were options I had.

1. I just don't pay for the card. No harm to me as I've got no NPB strikes.
2. If I noticed the damage I point it out and request to cancel the transaction on those grounds.
3. Not bidding on it in the first place.

But the reality is I wanted the card, bid on the card, got a great deal, gave the seller an out because of the eBay outage, paid for the card, and got a card with a clearly damaged case that wasn't disclosed. To put this on me is not playing devil's advocate. It's just you picking on me because you don't like me.

[wheeler281]

No its not. BTW you can keep saying you dont have an NPB. Nobody will ever know but you. I just have never seen anyone immediately try and talk the seller out of a sale. Either way gl. Glad it's working out in the end

Edit by the way I did not even get into where it went from feeling bad you got it at a great deal and the seller should contact ebay and you can start the cancellation for him then ended the messages before delivery with "Fine, payment coming, even though I don't want the card."

[JMPKCP]

Originally Posted by wheeler281

No its not. BTW you can keep saying you dont have an NPB. Nobody will ever know but you. I just have never seen anyone immediately try and talk the seller out of a sale. Either way gl. Glad it's working out in the end

Edit by the way I did not even get into where it went from feeling bad you got it at a great deal and the seller should contact ebay and you can start the cancellation for him then ended the messages before delivery with "Fine, payment coming, even though I don't want the card."

I've already addressed that EXACTLY. But again, instead of reading you're bringing up irrelevant crap. Like I said I should've said "I don't want the card THIS WAY". That's already said above. And in the messages it is repeatedly said why I didn't want to complete the transaction, and never did it have to do with my desire to OWN the card in general. We get it, you're the major dissenter in this thread and you've made your position painfully clear despite missing completely the point. You don't need to keep posting in this thread. Thanks.

[CMpunk13]

Why not just sell it for a profit?

also damage is clearly evident in the photo.

[CCSportsCards]

Why even post about this? Some people should just keep thoughts in their head

[CCSportsCards]

Actually looking at completed sales it looks like you just have buyers remorse. Looks to be about the going rate for the card

[JMPKCP]

Originally Posted by CMpunk13

Why not just sell it for a profit?
also damage is clearly evident in the photo.

In the many, many messages between the seller and I at the top, you'll see that I'm on strike as a seller on eBay. I've been a powerseller for years, but the hiking of fees and the lack of support in the dispute process has pushed me over the edge. Haven't sold anything since late September. Don't plan on selling for at least the rest of the year.

In the big picture it is visible, yes. In the regular one on a desktop, not really, sorta. On eBay mobile, definitely not. And as another person has said in this thread, it's obvious that the picture was taken to hide it.

[GreatAlbert]

The only problem I have with the seller is that he didn't disclose the chip in the auction. With that being said, that chip is minimal and if you want that fixed ask BGS to reslab with a new case.

I guess if I am going to spend $300.75 on a card, that obviously means quite a bit to you judging by the thread, I'm making sure there isn't anything wrong with the card. Be it looking on a computer screen or God forbid asking the seller about what looks like a chip on the case.

Other than that, you bounce back and forth between wanting it and then not wanting it. Ultimately, the seller took the good guy route and was willing to take the loss and send it to you. You then came off as seeming like you never wanted to pay in the first place.

Moral of the story: have all questions answered before placing a bid, then stand behind the bid once it is placed.

[JMPKCP]

Originally Posted by CCSportsCards

Actually looking at completed sales it looks like you just have buyers remorse. Looks to be about the going rate for the card

Lol, there haven't been any auctions of a gem mint of this card on eBay for MORE THAN THREE YEARS!!! You could not have said anything more silly!!!

9s have been bought immediately in buy it nows at $150-190....I'm sure this is worth more than double a BGS 9.