Thoughts on a group break like this

potvin48 · 10-11-2010, 11:58 AM

I am not posting an actual break or offering to do this, but I don't know if I've ever seen a group break work like this. It's possible this has been done, and I just haven't seen it.

Part of the reason I don't participate in group breaks where your team is drawn randomly is because I don't want any team except the one that I collect (Cubs). If I drop $100 on a 5 case break of Chrome, I really only want the Cubs as my team, and the odds are against me that I will get them.

Why not create one slot per team and open it up to a bidding style, and once the total of the bids reaches the total necessary for the breaker to break even, all spots are then given to the highest bidder for each team.

Example, the group break costs $3,000 total with supplies and shipping (and the cases of course). So, with Strasburg in the mix, the Nats might go for $250, and the Pirates might only get $25. The Yankees might get $300, the Cubs $278, the Mariners $104, the Padres $48, etc. Keep adding up all the bids until there is one bid that puts the total over the $3,000 mark. At that point, stop all bids, post the teams, and collect the money.

You will end up with different teams at different prices, but at least that way everyone is in for the team they want, at a price they're willing to pay. It's also nice because if there's one team that only has 3 or 4 players in that set, they're obviously going to get a lot less cards than a team with 10 or 11 players in that set, so the price should be lower for the team with fewer players. Sure, it would be nice to have everyone pay the same amount, and be lucky to draw the Yankees or Nats, but I think everyone would be happier with their break results under the bidding system, because they know what they're getting, and it's at a price they're willing to pay for them. Plus it might encourage people to buy another team at a low price and hit something good. You never know!

Thoughts? Has this been done?

iluvfish2 · 10-14-2010, 05:33 AM

Its been done before but I've yet to see one completed where the breaker didnt loose money. Those "dud" teams just dont get any buyers. Typically the Pirates, Nationals (not the case right now), Rockies (possible), Drays, Rangers, Tigers (given rookise right now probably not) and a host of other teams wont muster enough bidding to get the case to break even.

I think the closest someone got was to have everyone bid on the "base/inserts" for the team then deduct that amount from the case price and figure out a "hit" price. Give those people first crack at "hit" slots. This way if your bidding/winning teams you've also got a shot at the hits (verses say the base cover 1/2 the cost of the case, guys can just swoop in and pick up the hit slots cheap).

armyatc22 · 10-14-2010, 06:34 AM

When I get to AL I'm going to throw up a few diffrent ideas for gb's including something like this but will go ahead and make up the prices for each team according to what can be pulled from each team. So all in all you can sign up for your team if still avail on a first come first serve type of deal. It might not fill but could always try

PackAttack419 · 10-14-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armyatc22

When I get to AL I'm going to throw up a few diffrent ideas for gb's including something like this but will go ahead and make up the prices for each team according to what can be pulled from each team. So all in all you can sign up for your team if still avail on a first come first serve type of deal. It might not fill but could always try

i dig this

brechty · 10-14-2010, 03:16 PM

I think many people that participate in a group break like the random draw or a draft - its more of a gamble and more fun. I would be more angry if I paid a bunch of money for a high $$ slot and not get anything. than if I paid the flat rate an get a crap team. If I want my favorite team's cards from a GB I'll PM the person that got it, been pretty good to get the White sox at or close to the price for a slot.

mgugs46 · 10-14-2010, 03:20 PM

The other thing that does not work with bidding is this - lets say there is a bidding war on a few teams, and then the case price is hit - what happens? Just the last person who got a bid in wins it?

vikingsordie · 10-14-2010, 03:29 PM

It might work if all the winning bidders agree to split the loss/gain evenly among all slot holders. For example, an NFL break would consist of 32 slots. If after the bidding, the host is short $100 for the case, that $100 is split evenly among the 32 slot holders. Same if there is a profit and the host is over his cost by $100, the extra money is then refunded evenly among the 32 slot holders.

The most complicated thing would be the bidding itself though. You'd really have to establish an efficienct and effective method for this!

esaslo · 10-14-2010, 05:38 PM

Here's a thought -- National Treasures GB

Lakers + Celtics are - $225 and $175 to buy, outright, respectively.

Remaining teams are:

$1650 - 400 = $1250

Two Teams Out (Say Magic and Wiz -- all of the big vince carter hits are gone, as far as I know)

$1250 / 26 = $48 + 2.25 postage + .55 cents packing = $50.80 * 1.03% = $52.33

Still a whole cost of amazing teams left after the lakers and celtics (clippers, bucks, kings, warriors, suns, spurs, etc.; i.e., at least 6 or 7 teams would be a great pull for $52.00); another 8 wouldn't be horrible, based on what's left.

So this would be an above average scenario that I think could fill. And I think both the lakers and celtics would be gobbled up at those numbers -- or maybe 250 and 150. In anycase, pretty workable.

I wouldn't be able to host this, but thoughts are appreciated!

10-11-2010, 11:58 AM	#1
potvin48 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Michigan! Posts: 353 potvin48 potvin48	Thoughts on a group break like this I am not posting an actual break or offering to do this, but I don't know if I've ever seen a group break work like this. It's possible this has been done, and I just haven't seen it. Part of the reason I don't participate in group breaks where your team is drawn randomly is because I don't want any team except the one that I collect (Cubs). If I drop $100 on a 5 case break of Chrome, I really only want the Cubs as my team, and the odds are against me that I will get them. Why not create one slot per team and open it up to a bidding style, and once the total of the bids reaches the total necessary for the breaker to break even, all spots are then given to the highest bidder for each team. Example, the group break costs $3,000 total with supplies and shipping (and the cases of course). So, with Strasburg in the mix, the Nats might go for $250, and the Pirates might only get $25. The Yankees might get $300, the Cubs $278, the Mariners $104, the Padres $48, etc. Keep adding up all the bids until there is one bid that puts the total over the $3,000 mark. At that point, stop all bids, post the teams, and collect the money. You will end up with different teams at different prices, but at least that way everyone is in for the team they want, at a price they're willing to pay. It's also nice because if there's one team that only has 3 or 4 players in that set, they're obviously going to get a lot less cards than a team with 10 or 11 players in that set, so the price should be lower for the team with fewer players. Sure, it would be nice to have everyone pay the same amount, and be lucky to draw the Yankees or Nats, but I think everyone would be happier with their break results under the bidding system, because they know what they're getting, and it's at a price they're willing to pay for them. Plus it might encourage people to buy another team at a low price and hit something good. You never know! Thoughts? Has this been done?

10-14-2010, 05:33 AM	#2
iluvfish2 Moderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lansing, Michigan Posts: 26,685 iluvfish2 iluvfish2	Its been done before but I've yet to see one completed where the breaker didnt loose money. Those "dud" teams just dont get any buyers. Typically the Pirates, Nationals (not the case right now), Rockies (possible), Drays, Rangers, Tigers (given rookise right now probably not) and a host of other teams wont muster enough bidding to get the case to break even. I think the closest someone got was to have everyone bid on the "base/inserts" for the team then deduct that amount from the case price and figure out a "hit" price. Give those people first crack at "hit" slots. This way if your bidding/winning teams you've also got a shot at the hits (verses say the base cover 1/2 the cost of the case, guys can just swoop in and pick up the hit slots cheap). __________________ Blowouts Resident Wade Boggs Super Collector

10-14-2010, 03:16 PM	#5
brechty Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 152 davedogguscg	I think many people that participate in a group break like the random draw or a draft - its more of a gamble and more fun. I would be more angry if I paid a bunch of money for a high $$ slot and not get anything. than if I paid the flat rate an get a crap team. If I want my favorite team's cards from a GB I'll PM the person that got it, been pretty good to get the White sox at or close to the price for a slot. __________________ I collect White Sox, and some general baseball superstars (the legit ones not the steroid stars)

10-14-2010, 03:20 PM	#6
mgugs46 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 15,109 mgugs0046 mgugs46	The other thing that does not work with bidding is this - lets say there is a bidding war on a few teams, and then the case price is hit - what happens? Just the last person who got a bid in wins it? __________________ Buying rare 90's inserts of Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and other Red Sox/star players Always looking for PEDRO MARTINEZ patches/autos

10-14-2010, 03:29 PM	#7
vikingsordie Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Duluth, MN Posts: 2,650	It might work if all the winning bidders agree to split the loss/gain evenly among all slot holders. For example, an NFL break would consist of 32 slots. If after the bidding, the host is short $100 for the case, that $100 is split evenly among the 32 slot holders. Same if there is a profit and the host is over his cost by $100, the extra money is then refunded evenly among the 32 slot holders. The most complicated thing would be the bidding itself though. You'd really have to establish an efficienct and effective method for this! __________________ Collecting: Brett Favre, Current Vikings, and Danny Valencia http://s817.photobucket.com/albums/zz97/natesQuest4cards/

10-14-2010, 06:34 AM	#3
armyatc22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Who knows Posts: 22,041 armyatc22	When I get to AL I'm going to throw up a few diffrent ideas for gb's including something like this but will go ahead and make up the prices for each team according to what can be pulled from each team. So all in all you can sign up for your team if still avail on a first come first serve type of deal. It might not fill but could always try

10-14-2010, 05:38 PM	#8
esaslo Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 1,498 esaslo	Here's a thought -- National Treasures GB Lakers + Celtics are - $225 and $175 to buy, outright, respectively. Remaining teams are: $1650 - 400 = $1250 Two Teams Out (Say Magic and Wiz -- all of the big vince carter hits are gone, as far as I know) $1250 / 26 = $48 + 2.25 postage + .55 cents packing = $50.80 * 1.03% = $52.33 Still a whole cost of amazing teams left after the lakers and celtics (clippers, bucks, kings, warriors, suns, spurs, etc.; i.e., at least 6 or 7 teams would be a great pull for $52.00); another 8 wouldn't be horrible, based on what's left. So this would be an above average scenario that I think could fill. And I think both the lakers and celtics would be gobbled up at those numbers -- or maybe 250 and 150. In anycase, pretty workable. I wouldn't be able to host this, but thoughts are appreciated! __________________ I'll save you the PM: Yes, I collect Peanuts Fine Art.