The 86/87 Fleer Elephant in the Room that No One Wants to Talk About!

[MJRookieHoarder]

Is it me or are the grading populations for the 86/87 Fleer basketball getting out of control for BGS and PSA? With the amount of people that bust open the case and request new grading, I am venturing to say the POP report is overinflated by at least 30%. Why is it that when I pop a random 1/1 out of a case and submit for a rebid, PSA does not update the POP report? Is it because they don't want to show a 1/1 with a population of 2? Here are two ways to remedy the issue of over populated reports:

1. PSA and BGS need to contact each other when crossing over each other's cards. This would eliminate duplicate graded cards from being included in the other companies POP report.

2. All sports card manufactures need to add serial numbers on all cards. This is the quickest and easiest way to cure the problem going forward.

Let me know what you guys think

[JMarchand1981]

I think that given your screen name you have a vested, biased opinion on this subject. Further, I am not certain that grading companies really care about the hobby. Moreover, if I were a PSA shareholder I would not want them wasting resources to correct an issue that does not pertain to EPS. This is my biased opinion.

[MJRookieHoarder]

Originally Posted by JMarchand1981

I think that given your screen name you have a vested, biased opinion on this subject. Further, I am not certain that grading companies really care about the hobby. Moreover, if I were a PSA shareholder I would not want them wasting resources to correct an issue that does not pertain to EPS. This is my biased opinion.

I definitely have a vested interest in the 86/87 Fleer MJ, I'm not gonna lie. I just don't want my cards devalued based on BGS and PSA's unrealistic POP reports. Less is more in this industry.

[iluvfish2]

If you break a card out for resubmission, how are they to know it was already submitted?

[MJRookieHoarder]

Originally Posted by iluvfish2

If you break a card out for resubmission, how are they to know it was already submitted?

That's my point exactly. The sports card manufacturers need to add serial numbers on all sports cards.

[6celtics33]

Ok but how does that help with 86 fleer?

[TarjetasBéisbol]

Originally Posted by MJRookieHoarder

That's my point exactly. The sports card manufacturers need to add serial numbers on all sports cards.

Figure the odds on that happening and like another poster commented, how does that help cards that are already issued without a serial number? You think that competing grading companies are going to cooperate with each other? I highly doubt that!

[Vipertron]

Originally Posted by 6celtics33

Ok but how does that help with 86 fleer?

Beat me to it.
Everyone should get together and start hand numbering the 86-87 Fleer.

[MJRookieHoarder]

Originally Posted by 6celtics33

Ok but how does that help with 86 fleer?

Transparency between BGS and PSA would be a start. They know how many cards they've crossed over of the other companies grades. Eliminate those right off the bat. These are multi-million dollar companies, they definitely have the data.

[Vipertron]

99% of the cards today has a serial number.

[iluvfish2]

Originally Posted by MJRookieHoarder

That's my point exactly. The sports card manufacturers need to add serial numbers on all sports cards.

Ok kind of off topic since your thread is regarding the 86/87 MJ's but there's so many grading companies, no one has a full database of those, but why would it matter to PSA if they regraded a BGS 10 a 9, or flip side a PSA 10 regraded by Becektt to be a 9. Im not looking to debate who is better and/or what cross grades to another. But more so why another company would care to the standards used by the other company for grading cards. One is subjective, and even with 2 people independently grading a card, I doubt it gets the same grade more than 75% of the time (and I think I'm high there).

Each company has their own standards and the work that they do to keep those standards is really what has helped set each one apart.

Each company has their own followings, as well as positives and negative, but for todays markets, I would say both very much have a a vested interest going forward as well as being well established in todays current sports card market.

[derder]

Originally Posted by Vipertron

Beat me to it.
Everyone should get together and start hand numbering the 86-87 Fleer.

I'm gonna number mine 1/1 so y'all are gonna havta bust out the old highlighters and start making some different colored parallels...

Neon pink refractor Jordan rc/5
Radioactive pee green refractor Jordan rc/25

[6celtics33]

86 fleer is through the roof the last 2 years anyway. Whatever is going on with the pop report isn't hurting values.

[MJRookieHoarder]

I guarantee you a class action lawsuit would change the way they operate. Their POP's directly correlate with value. If The POP's are wrong, they are doing a disservice to everyone in the industry.

[MJRookieHoarder]

Originally Posted by derder

I'm gonna number mine 1/1 so y'all are gonna havta bust out the old highlighters and start making some different colored parallels...

Neon pink refractor Jordan rc/5
Radioactive pee green refractor Jordan rc/25

Lmao! Now that's funny!

[MJRookieHoarder]

Originally Posted by Vipertron

99% of the cards today has a serial number.

Not true.

[Vipertron]

Originally Posted by iluvfish2

If you break a card out for resubmission, how are they to know it was already submitted?

Back to this.
Even if the grading companies cooperate. How are they going to keep track if submitters crack the case and submit it raw?

[6celtics33]

Originally Posted by MJRookieHoarder

I guarantee you a class action lawsuit would change the way they operate. Their POP's directly correlate with value. If The POP's are wrong, they are doing a disservice to everyone in the industry.

No way in the world that would work. The pop is stupid anyway. Money flows upward. Nobody cares how many 9.5s there are. The nice ones, quad 9.5s and up are considered the cream of the crop. Just like psa 10s that are clean and centered. There simply are not enough of those to satisfy demand. 9.5s with 9 centering or corners and psa 10s with surface flaws or off center might as well be graded bgs 9.25 or psa 9.5.

[Vipertron]

Originally Posted by MJRookieHoarder

Not true.

OK...I exaggerated a little. 98%

[derder]

Originally Posted by Vipertron

Back to this.
Even if the grading companies cooperate. How are they going to keep track if submitters crack the case and submit it raw?

Only way I see it working is if they were tagged in the future with some type of Psadna thing and if they'd been previously graded refuse to reslab them... But that would never happen because it would lose them money

[Doublexthebeast]

Originally Posted by MJRookieHoarder

I guarantee you a class action lawsuit would change the way they operate. Their POP's directly correlate with value. If The POP's are wrong, they are doing a disservice to everyone in the industry.

If I buy 500 86-87 Fleer PSA 8 commons from EBay and I crack out all 500 myself in my moms basement wearing a Van Halen t-shirt and send all 500- now raw 86-87 Fleers to BGS then what does that have to do with either company communicating about crossing over grades? Nothing, cause BGS wouldn't know that they used to be graded by PSA. This is likely what happens most of the time.... Minus the Van Halen t shirt.

Your asking the impossible and the pop report will always be skewed on non serial numbered cards. Hell, it's even skewed on serial numbered cards.

[vtgmsc]

Yeah, this is a huge problem. It is killing MJ Rookie prices. They are plummeting..... sell me some!



Peace, Mike

[JMarchand1981]

Originally Posted by MJRookieHoarder

I guarantee you a class action lawsuit would change the way they operate. Their POP's directly correlate with value. If The POP's are wrong, they are doing a disservice to everyone in the industry.

They would just do away with the pop report. It is a non revenue generating service at its core. They could do what you are suggesting but they would charge a fee....again, if I were a shareholder, I could give a rats crap about the hobby.

[AbraCalabro]

The Jordan guys never cease to amaze me.

[iluvfish2]

I like the pop reporr, but you need to have solid numbers before the reports useful. 5 graded copies doesn't help you judge how rare say a psa10 is. Have 1000 graded and only 2 are 10s, and most are 8 or 9s. Now you have a lot more data to evaluate how rare a 10 is