Luka Doncic Questionable Autograph Analysis

[M4YH3M1]

I do 100% believe the UD Turkish league cards (from the maybe 30 I've looked at) are Lukas autograph.
Most of those autographs have a very legible (not perfect) cursive albeit smaller 'lulu'.
However, none of them perfectly match the ones from his Panini stickers this year.

Yes, peoples autographs have known to change over time.
However what they do not do is change completely within the space of a month or two and then back again... and then back the other way again.

The fact that all video signings do not support the sticker style is the strongest evidence to be presented. It's undisputable.

I really can't wait to see those UD autographs. I want to see them in that exact perfect cursive writing. If they are 'fairly close' it won't even be enough.

5,000 non-witnessed perfect cursive 'lulu' autographs.
~500 ? messy autographs in the presence of Panini Reps or Fanatics Authentics.

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Lol why all the pearl clutching? Luka is being accused of forging autos he’s being paid to make, which are then being sold for tens of thousands of dollars. But duping the president of Slovenia is so inconceivable that it invalidates all the evidence? Right.

We don’t know anything about Luka’s mom. If she’s is the one forging Lukas auto I doubt she cares at this point who she forges it for. She probably wouldn’t think it was a big deal.

So you believe Luka staged this photo:
That this isnt a l u l u auto from his UD video:And that Luka's mom forged the auto and inscription to the President of Slovenia because she probably doesnt give a rats ass:
Whose take is getting more complicated, and frankly getting harder and harder to believe?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by M4YH3M1

The fact that all video signings do not support the sticker style is the strongest evidence to be presented. It's undisputable.

They really dont support those UD sticker autos though either.

And just because there's a video of Luka signing in a different style to his l u l u autos doesnt prove he cant sign l u l u... it just shows what we already knew.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[cypher]

The calendar does not match his perfect Lulu stickers or the NT autos. It's not the fact he's signing "lulu", it's the perfect handwriting/spacing on the stickers that do not match any witnessed signings. I really think you are reaching to find a resolution. The evidence is not there take a break.

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by cypher

The calendar does not match his perfect Lulu stickers or the NT autos. It's not the fact he's signing "lulu", it's the perfect handwriting/spacing on the stickers that do not match any witnessed signings. I really think you are reaching to find a resolution. The evidence is not there take a break.

You're in denial. It's a 100% match to his loopy l u l u auto.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

You're in denial. It's a 100% match to his loopy l u l u auto.

I think we can both agree that at the end of the day we're going to need a video of a signing session where the autographs consistently come out looking like the questionable autographs (which are all signed very consistently).

So far from what we've seen of the autos from the UD video, they do not match the questionable lulu autos. The one pixelated photo you keep posting is way too low res to come to any conclusions one way or the other but even then it looks like the zonal proportions of that particular auto still doesn't match the zonal proportions of the questionable autographs.

And again, if you manage to find one autograph from the UD session that somewhat resembles one of the questionable autographs, it is not relevant unless he's consistently signing it that way (as all the unwitnessed signings have been).

EDIT: Even a photo of a signing session in progress from Panini would do the trick.

[theLUCKYshow]

Turns out this was another gift from Luka to President Borut Pahor back in November of 2017. I posted this forever ago but didnt realize who it was for. Rogermaris didnt you believe this was a legit auto way back when in this thread based on the zonal proportions?
And again his gift to President Pahor in December of 2018:


Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[M4YH3M1]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

They really dont support those UD sticker autos though either.

Agreed. It was his first major signing, he was probably ecstatic that an American company was making Euroleague cards and he was on them!
I believe those UD stickers to be his original autograph where he was taking relative care when signing it as he would a formal document.

Would be good to know how many Luka autos did UD put out in that release?

Then after the whirlwind escalation to NBA rookie top 10 draft status with the Rookie Draft auto signings, the Luka camp realised that he was going to have to sign a legitimate f*ckload more!
I could imagine Panini sent him home from the Rookie Draft celebrations with a folder full of blank sticker sheets to get to work on.
Now that is probably a little bit daunting as you know as well as I do; signing your name 100 times may start to give you a sore wrist. Well try signing 1,000 or 2,000 times. No kid wants to sit around doing that.

So I believe they had someone start signing for him in a style close to his original. Maybe they thought lets sign in a way that looks nice and consumer friendly and appealing. Because sure as heck, his messy thin 'lili' autos don't look so hot.

Now of course, we can't have someone signing on his behalf at publicly attended events, so we still get these slappings of horrid 'lili' autos in between all these perfect 'lulu' ones that are mailed in to Panini HQ.

All I ask is for Panini to show us a video of him signing that perfect 'lulu' autograph 3 or 4 times in a row.

The Upper Deck one is terrible. filmed with a nokia 3210 and only 4 seconds long. WTF. Who even makes videos like that these days.

[M4YH3M1]

As an aside, I have enquired with 3 separate forensic hand-writing services to obtain quotes to provide an official statement with technical analysis on this matter.

I will let you know how I go.

Pending the value of the quotes, I will pay for them or try to raise the funds through a gofundme venture.

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by M4YH3M1

As an aside, I have enquired with 3 separate forensic hand-writing services to obtain quotes to provide an official statement with technical analysis on this matter.

I will let you know how I go.

Pending the value of the quotes, I will pay for them or try to raise the funds through a gofundme venture.

Interesting idea. I will donate towards the cause if it comes to that but wouldnt it be nice if Panini just released a video or a few pics of Luka at an official signing. Why is it so hard? Dont answer.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

Turns out this was another gift from Luka to President Borut Pahor back in November of 2017. I posted this forever ago but didnt realize who it was for. Rogermaris didnt you believe this was a legit auto way back when in this thread based on the zonal proportions?

Yes, I think we can both agree that jersey autograph and inscription are legit. That being said, if you're asking me to compare the inscriptions, I have to say that they look like they were written by different hands.

Let's compare some individual elements. Here are two of the same words from both inscriptions. To me they look like they were written by completely different hands.



Here is the same diagram, but I have circled the areas that have the most discrepancies in corresponding colors.



NEON GREEN: 'Z' on calendar does not have a stroke through it.

RED: Bottom of 'Z' loops on calendar, resembles cursive '2'. I didn't circle but the top of the 'Z' also does not match at all.

BLUE: 'P' on questionable inscription is two strokes, real one uses one stroke.

ORANGE: 'D's on questionable inscription is two strokes, real ones use one stroke. The 'D's on the real one also loop, while the questionable ones do not.

DARK GREEN: 'K's are just completely different I don't even know where to begin.

PINK: This is the part I found most interesting. One of the features that the handwriting expert pointed out on the questionable autographs is that the signer sometimes put a little tail on the end of their "A"s, while the real Luka signatures tend to not have any tail at all.

And low and behold, not one but two of the 'A's on the questionable inscription feature the tail on the 'A'...

Is this proof that Luka doesn't sign his autographs? Of course not. But it's just another discrepancy to throw on the ever growing pile of discrepancies between the real and questionable autographs.

[rogermaris]

Ultimately though, the calendar signing is just another in a long list of unwitnessed signings. We can argue over the subjective differences all day and it really doesn't matter.

If Luka's loopy lulus are legit, then it should be very easy to provide photographic or video evidence of him signing them consistently. Because so far, no witnessed singing has produced the consistent loopy lulus we've seen from nearly every unwitnessed signing.

[Litwing]

I will prevent the lulu auto.

See upperdeck luka auto.

[theLUCKYshow]

Who needs a handwriting expert when we have rogermaris. But seriously, bringing in a handwriting expert to check these inscriptions out is a good idea at this point. To me they look similar enough, especially considering they were signed over a year apart. Also, one was inscribed on a jersey and the other on a calendar which causes differences naturally.

And let me get this straight. OP, you believe Luka's first gift to the President was legit, then a year later his mom forged an inscription and auto then hand delivered it to the President? Playing the President of Slovenia for a fool! Gimme a break.

And with that I must go to sleep cuz my wife is kicking me.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

And let me get this straight. OP, you believe Luka's first gift to the President was legit, then a year later his mom forged an inscription and auto then hand delivered it to the President?

Yes. You already know that I believe Luka's first panini autos were legit, and then later someone started forging them when the demands increased. So of course it's totally conceivable to me that the gift from a year ago was legit and the recent one wasn't.

Also, I'm not sure why you think someone who would commit fraud by forging autographs and selling them to fans would not be capable of giving the president of Slovenia a fake autograph...

EDIT: I do have to set one thing straight; I don't have any evidence to suggest that it's his mom signing them. That would be pure speculation.

[cypher]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Let's compare some individual elements. Here are two of the same words from both inscriptions. To me they look like they were written by completely different hands.



Here is the same diagram, but I have circled the areas that have the most discrepancies in corresponding colors.



NEON GREEN: 'Z' on calendar does not have a stroke through it.

RED: Bottom of 'Z' loops on calendar, resembles cursive '2'. I didn't circle but the top of the 'Z' also does not match at all.

BLUE: 'P' on questionable inscription is two strokes, real one uses one stroke.

ORANGE: 'D's on questionable inscription is two strokes, real ones use one stroke. The 'D's on the real one also loop, while the questionable ones do not.

DARK GREEN: 'K's are just completely different I don't even know where to begin.

PINK: This is the part I found most interesting. One of the features that the handwriting expert pointed out on the questionable autographs is that the signer sometimes put a little tail on the end of their "A"s, while the real Luka signatures tend to not have any tail at all.

And low and behold, not one but two of the 'A's on the questionable inscription feature the tail on the 'A'...

I do not believe Luka ever stepped foot anywhere near that calendar.

Nice analysis. If people are paying for handwriting experts I would find one of the witnessed Panini next day autos and one of the Panini sticker Lulu's to compare since they have such drastic differences. The Optic on cards I believe Luka grabbed a stack, signed them, and had his ghostwriter finish the rest.

[cp312]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Yes, I think we can both agree that jersey autograph and inscription are legit. That being said, if you're asking me to compare the inscriptions, I have to say that they look like they were written by different hands.

Let's compare some individual elements. Here are two of the same words from both inscriptions. To me they look like they were written by completely different hands.



Here is the same diagram, but I have circled the areas that have the most discrepancies in corresponding colors.



NEON GREEN: 'Z' on calendar does not have a stroke through it.

RED: Bottom of 'Z' loops on calendar, resembles cursive '2'. I didn't circle but the top of the 'Z' also does not match at all.

BLUE: 'P' on questionable inscription is two strokes, real one uses one stroke.

ORANGE: 'D's on questionable inscription is two strokes, real ones use one stroke. The 'D's on the real one also loop, while the questionable ones do not.

DARK GREEN: 'K's are just completely different I don't even know where to begin.

PINK: This is the part I found most interesting. One of the features that the handwriting expert pointed out on the questionable autographs is that the signer sometimes put a little tail on the end of their "A"s, while the real Luka signatures tend to not have any tail at all.

And low and behold, not one but two of the 'A's on the questionable inscription feature the tail on the 'A'...

Is this proof that Luka doesn't sign his autographs? Of course not. But it's just another discrepancy to throw on the ever growing pile of discrepancies between the real and questionable autographs.

Exactly, thank you. My thoughts were the same looking at both autographs and inscriptions.

The autograph isn't even the same, look at the proportions of the "u"s and the angle of the strokes, the jersey signature is tight and upright like all the examples we consider authentic, and the second looks like the signature found on all the autographed posters we believe to be fake.

[cp312]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Yes. You already know that I believe Luka's first panini autos were legit, and then later someone started forging them when the demands increased. So of course it's totally conceivable to me that the gift from a year ago was legit and the recent one wasn't.

Also, I'm not sure why you think someone who would commit fraud by forging autographs and selling them to fans would not be capable of giving the president of Slovenia a fake autograph...

EDIT: I do have to set one thing straight; I don't have any evidence to suggest that it's his mom signing them. That would be pure speculation.

Bolded, again my thoughts. In for a penny in for a pound. It looks to me like the calendar was signed earlier too (probably a mass fake signing for promotions) and then the inscription was added later. But can't say for sure.

I almost guarantee tho that a handwriting expert will ruin luckshows day with the truth. Like rogermaris, if we're wrong here I'll eat crow, but I don't think we are.

[gameissued]

Probstein has one up.. looks a bit CUCU to me.
Even the ghost signers are getting tired of doing it.


Generated from my Apple iPad using tools.sportscard.trade

[Giantrobot]

I just signed a couple of documents in quick succession, and my signatures were very different in many ways. I think people put way too much into this.

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by Giantrobot

I just signed a couple of documents in quick succession, and my signatures were very different in many ways. I think people put way too much into this.

I agree about the last part, but I think you're also simplifying the issue a bit. The issue is not that there is a little variance here and there. The difference is that two very distinct styles have emerged over time, and only one of them is showing up on cards that were known for a fact to have been signed by him.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Giantrobot

I just signed a couple of documents in quick succession, and my signatures were very different in many ways. I think people put way too much into this.

Great insight. This settles it.

[pcptrade]

We have a plot twist. Why would someone give a fake auto to a President? I gotta give it to lucky, Nice find

[Giantrobot]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Great insight. This settles it.

Thanks, Dickens.

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by pcptrade

We have a plot twist. Why would someone give a fake auto to a President? I gotta give it to lucky, Nice find

Thank you. The notion that he gave the President of Slovenia a real auto and then a fake a year later is even more ludicrous. OP is grasping at straws now with his handwriting analysis, and not understanding the absurdity of Luka not having the time to sign an auto (and inscription!) for his own freaking President. OPs inability to acknowledge any new evidence has shown me he has lost whatever objectivity he had on this subject.

Im also digging up info on Doncic’s childhood and how he used to collect Panini soccer cards. I’ll share that with you when I gather a few more things.

OP you better start designing that shirt.