Hobby Mount Rushmore: Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, and _________

[isles4life]

Originally Posted by yaoming

Honestly as a “big” , someone’s career wont be much better than olajuwon ‘s .
He was a monster, the only guy in 90s IMO who could beat MJ’s bulls, but they never met in Finals

Shaq has more rings cause he had kobe and wade
Duncan has more rings cause he was in much better organization and system and has better coach


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I think you got this reversed.

[Pblev26]

KD should be that guy, and I think he was up until a couple of years ago. He’s kind of off the radar now bc of the injury, but if he has a monster comeback year playing in NY, I think he can get back in the conversation. He was arguably second best player in NBA after Lebron for quite awhile. The next tier for me after the Big 3 is Steph, KD, Giannis (provided future growth and at least 1 chip)


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[brothertona]

KD is a mercenary, basically a hired gun - the Warriors would win the title without him. I have a hard time believing that he will ever become seriously hobby relevant again. I think it's Steph and Giannis way down the chain. I think Kawhi has a shot at possibly taking the 5th spot after Giannis and Steph.

[cardmole]

Maybe should be the dude that scored 100 points in a game.
Youngsters can Google.

[deemsterz33]

Originally Posted by cardmole

Maybe should be the dude that scored 100 points in a game.
Youngsters can Google.

Not enough product to keep him relevant. Sucks that there was an 8 year gap with no cards produced in the Sixties.

[yaoming]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

I see this rubbish all the time about Tim Duncan.



The Spurs had how many chips before and after TD? Just wondering when their system will return them to a Finals or another set of rings because it's the same system and Coach.

TD is my favorite player ever along w Lebron
Did you see Prime Olajuwon? I think Olajuwon and Shaq absolute peak is better than Duncan’s
But Duncan has more longevity


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[regularp]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

The KD crowd always cites rare, high end KD as well. That doesn't apply to 99.9% of cards, though.

I've been picking up Chrome and Finest refractors lately, and Lebron is 2x Kobe, card for card, at a minimum. I collect Galactics... a Kobe 15-16 Showstoppers sat on ebay for like $2,400 for months. The seller actually put it up for auction with like $1,800 opening bid and still didn't get any bites. And that's one of two possible Kobe Galactics from his playing days. Guarantee that if the Lebron was listed at $5k, it wouldn't last 10 minutes. I'd love for Lebron to be cheaper, but I'm just not seeing it.

Because Kobe collectors focus on his 90s cards. Those had been skyrocketing even before his death.

LeBron did not play in an era with coveted inserts like the 90s so his refractors/prizms/parallels are the focal point for his collectors.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by yaoming

TD is my favorite player ever along w Lebron
Did you see Prime Olajuwon? I think Olajuwon and Shaq absolute peak is better than Duncan’s
But Duncan has more longevity


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I grew up with Hakeem vs Robinson. So yeah. He was a freak. A great argument for Hakeem for sure. But let's not act like he didn't get incredible all time HOF help. To only win 2 rings. And make the Finals 1 other time.

His numbers were remarkable. And he is usally underrated, but Tim Duncan has the accolades over him for good reason.

People are calling LeBron the GOAT or 2nd. Well, TD has a pretty great record over him.

[bmf]

Originally Posted by Pblev26

KD should be that guy, and I think he was up until a couple of years ago. He’s kind of off the radar now bc of the injury

this is exactly why i've been buying him.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

I see this rubbish all the time about Tim Duncan.

The Spurs had how many chips before and after TD? Just wondering when their system will return them to a Finals or another set of rings because it's the same system and Coach.

Yeah... Duncan is the best PF ever IMO. From a hobby perspective it makes sense, though. There’s just no flair to his game and he doesn’t have a big personality, but he is unquestionably the guy I’d start a team with if I had to pick a big man. One thing people underrate is leadership ability. Basketball is a team sport. If it was just 1v1 then a guy like KD or Kawhi would be the best. But in team sports you need to lead other men to victory, and that intangible is too often overlooked. It’s why I think Curry and Duncan are such sensational players. They make everyone around them better, which is the real reason the Warriors and Spurs had the success they did, in my opinion.

[pcptrade]

Nothing against Kobe. He is one of top 10 players of all time imo but Magic and Bird are ranked higher than Kobe. They both saved the NBA! I feel their prices (especially their exquisite and flawless patch autos) are cheap compared to what Kobe's are currently selling for. Even though they are still signing (like Kobe did until he passed away), most of them are sticker autos. I guess the reason that their cards are cheap is because people of that era who grew up watching Magic and Bird are not much into sports cards.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by regularp

Because Kobe collectors focus on his 90s cards. Those had been skyrocketing even before his death.

LeBron did not play in an era with coveted inserts like the 90s so his refractors/prizms/parallels are the focal point for his collectors.

I don’t buy it. There’s over a decade of overlap in their careers, and Lebron outsells Kobe in every year. He outsells everyone that played from 03-04 on, and it’s not even that close. I don’t even like Lebron or have many of his cards, but whenever I’m completing a set, I have to save my pennies to get the Lebron in that set.

There are people here arguing Kobe isn’t even on the Mt Rushmore. People have said he’s underpriced for a while. But now you’re telling me Kobe = Lebron in terms of hobby? Some of the 90s stuff you speak of is through the roof regardless of player simply because basketball collectors as a whole obsess over the 90s. There’s over a decade of card for card comparisons where Lebron is far more expensive, over 2x in most cases, so plucking apples to oranges comparisons doesn’t work for me.

I think a handful of you are taking this too personally. Kobe is great, and he’s definitely hobby great. There’s nothing wrong with being third. IMO he’s the most collectible player of all time because he spans the 90s, all of Chrome, most of Finest, all of Exquisite, is in Panini, etc. But the demand is heavier for Lebron because the prices I pay for cards from the same sets across two decades tells me so. This isn’t rocket surgery.

[kd the sniper]

Originally Posted by brothertona

KD is a mercenary, basically a hired gun - the Warriors would win the title without him. I have a hard time believing that he will ever become seriously hobby relevant again. I think it's Steph and Giannis way down the chain. I think Kawhi has a shot at possibly taking the 5th spot after Giannis and Steph.

Obviously they didn't think they could beat a FULLY HEALTHY cavs team or they would of without Durant.
Draymond was the one crying calling him after the game 7 loss.
So to say they would of won without him is a reach. Could they have? Maybe. But no one will ever know.

[Pblev26]

Agreed. Would they have won chips in ‘17 and ‘18 without KD? We’ll never know. Maybe 1 out of 2? They obviously thought they needed him after losing to Lebron and I’m sure they would’ve liked him to have him healthy last year against Toronto.


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[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by pcptrade

Nothing against Kobe. He is one of top 10 players of all time imo but Magic and Bird are ranked higher than Kobe. They both saved the NBA! I feel their prices (especially their exquisite and flawless patch autos) are cheap compared to what Kobe's are currently selling for. Even though they are still signing (like Kobe did until he passed away), most of them are sticker autos. I guess the reason that their cards are cheap is because people of that era who grew up watching Magic and Bird are not much into sports cards.

Yeah i agree with you but it appears we're outnumbered. They were both beasts and like you said they saved basketball. Bird is my all time favorite player. I think maybe it's an age gap thing. If you look at all the players people want to talk about most of them start from 1990 and beyond. Most even closer to 2000 and beyond. I don't think a lot of people on here were old enough or maybe weren't even born yet to know how truly great Bird/Magic were.

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

Yeah i agree with you but it appears we're outnumbered. They were both beasts and like you said they saved basketball. Bird is my all time favorite player. I think maybe it's an age gap thing. If you look at all the players people want to talk about most of them start from 1990 and beyond. Most even closer to 2000 and beyond. I don't think a lot of people on here were old enough or maybe weren't even born yet to know how truly great Bird/Magic were.

Yep, as I said earlier, people of that period who grew up watching Bird and Magic are mostly into 401K and real estate. With the hobby dynamics changing and Lebron/Jordan/Kobe exquisite getting out of reach for most investors, I would not be surprised to see collectors moving into Bird and Magic Autos. Magic and Bird exquisite autos are cheap compared to what Kobe's exquisite autos are currently selling for. I starting buying them only recently.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

Yeah i agree with you but it appears we're outnumbered. They were both beasts and like you said they saved basketball. Bird is my all time favorite player. I think maybe it's an age gap thing. If you look at all the players people want to talk about most of them start from 1990 and beyond. Most even closer to 2000 and beyond. I don't think a lot of people on here were old enough or maybe weren't even born yet to know how truly great Bird/Magic were.

I’ll give you the age gap and not knowing how great they were... I’m 33. I’ve watched highlights, but highlights are just that. I personally can’t fully appreciate a player without experiencing his career and witnessing the highs/lows and how he handles everything in between.

But I’ll give my answer just for the sake of perspective... these guys just aren’t very collectible. Basketball cards became way more fun in the 90s. There was a chase, cards were creative, and there was more than just one card per year to collect of a given player. I get that Bird and Magic are in certain high end sets, but their actual hobby presence is incredibly limited compared to players who played from the mid 90s on. Just my $.02 and how I see them.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

I think a handful of you are taking this too personally.

this happens with ANY "all time list", really.

listen to enough sports talk radio, and its obvious

it's like saying (name here) isnt in the Top 5 of all time is some sort of slight to the player

this goes for any sport

[LCM1223]

Wilt.

[yaoming]

Originally Posted by LCM1223

Wilt.

Wilt only have very few “key” cards:
Epic sig, inkredible and his vintage RC and 70s topps



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[Jwhoops]

I always thought DWade would show up more in these discussions.

[KhalDrogo]

KD won’t be a hobby superstar until he changes he attitude. He is not good enough to overcome how unlikable he is off the court.

[ninjacookies]

The OP specifically states Hobby Mt. Rushmore.

Not sure how Bird and Magic got brought up in the discussion, but they really don't belong in it.

They are the quintessential real life goods: hobby bads. They have the secondary market desirability of the Hakeem Olajuwons and KG's of the world.

[pcptrade]

Hobby Mount Rushmore.... of this generation. What would have been the answer to this question in 1980's? I wonder what the answer would be in 20-30 years from now when next generation is answering this question. If Bird and Magic are not relevant to this generation collectors, Will Kobe be relevant in 20-30 years from now for kids (that are born after his death) who become the next wave of collectors? The reason I am asking is Magic and Bird are ranked higher than Kobe. If Magic and Bird are irrelevant in current hobby Mount Rushmore, why would Kobe be relevant in the hobby mount Rushmore for the next generation when they have not seen him playing.

[Patsguy5000]

I’m more old school, Russell and Jabbar with Lebron and MJ