Topps Project 2020 is the worst product since 1991 Fleer

[CubsFanInTX]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

I'm serious.

Ton's of other artists are amazing as well, but less is more in regards to this set. Same with consistency. Like you said, you knew what the cards would look like before they were shown. I think this is a good thing.

I agree Vides (and any trout) are the only ones I'm collecting.

[mudflap02]

That Vides Trout looks really really nice. I'm a big fan. Like the Naturel Mattingly as well.

[DMS6391]

I’m starting to see some graded Peoject 2020 stuff pop up on eBay. I don’t get it. While I do understand that Topps has QC issues and some cards will be in better shape than others, I really don’t get the point in grading them. But I guess it’s all a money grab on the secondary market at this point.

[kabrune2]

Originally Posted by DMS6391

I’m starting to see some graded Peoject 2020 stuff pop up on eBay. I don’t get it. While I do understand that Topps has QC issues and some cards will be in better shape than others, I really don’t get the point in grading them. But I guess it’s all a money grab on the secondary market at this point.

I personally think it has everything to do with centering. I'd say 2 in 5 Project 2020 cards are centered better than 60/40 both left/right and up/down, the other 3 generally are not. At least that's been my experience with the handful of 5 packs I've bought. I don't understand how a premium product costing $15-$20/ea can't be centered properly. So in essence 60% of the Project 2020 cards wouldn't get past a PSA 9. Myself, I plan on framing at least 1 or 2 of the 20 card artist collections at the end, so i'll be keeping them in the original holder, but I'll be picky when buying off eBay.

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by BrendaStarr

Since he’s talked about a lot here, update from TwinsJake:

https://twitter.com/twinsjake/status...290123265?s=21

His eBay store has been deleted.

That sucks. Hate to see him close shop on P2020. Hopefully he keeps selling other stuff. He's been doing a great job for years helping people save money.

[1977 Cloth]

Originally Posted by kabrune2

I personally think it has everything to do with centering. I'd say 2 in 5 Project 2020 cards are centered better than 60/40 both left/right and up/down, the other 3 generally are not. At least that's been my experience with the handful of 5 packs I've bought. I don't understand how a premium product costing $15-$20/ea can't be centered properly. So in essence 60% of the Project 2020 cards wouldn't get past a PSA 9. Myself, I plan on framing at least 1 or 2 of the 20 card artist collections at the end, so i'll be keeping them in the original holder, but I'll be picky when buying off eBay.

I agree with you, and the only benefits to grading is the identifier of the player/artist on the flip. Not worth the cash to grade them, but there is a market that loves themselves some slabs. 4 graded artist proofs just sold this weekend for an average of $300 each. Not a good ROI.

[JRX]

I think this is the first Vides where I really see the 3-D aspect of what he's doing. The Trout card really works with this style, more so than the others.

[ketchupman36]

In for a two-pack today. The Vides Trout will really pop in hand. Not normally a fan of Vides but I think it helps that the Trout card itself is a nice design. Anything Naturel is an instant purchase for me so this was a no brainer.

[DMS6391]

Originally Posted by kabrune2

I personally think it has everything to do with centering. I'd say 2 in 5 Project 2020 cards are centered better than 60/40 both left/right and up/down, the other 3 generally are not. At least that's been my experience with the handful of 5 packs I've bought. I don't understand how a premium product costing $15-$20/ea can't be centered properly. So in essence 60% of the Project 2020 cards wouldn't get past a PSA 9. Myself, I plan on framing at least 1 or 2 of the 20 card artist collections at the end, so i'll be keeping them in the original holder, but I'll be picky when buying off eBay.

Yeah I definitely get the centering issues. I feel like the graded slab, while it does provide some assurances as to the centering and overall quality, takes away from the actual artwork. But that’s just my opinion. I guess people are collecting them for all different reasons so a slab may not matter to others. I definitely prefer them in original packaging.

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by fjdlrw

Here's a dumb question. Would there be any artsy reason as to why Natural has the triangle 'A' in Yankees upside down? It's pointing the right way in 'Mattingly'. Not sure why I noticed that, it just struck me as odd. Not something that would bother me, but maybe some others. If I remember, I'll go through his other cards sometime when I'm bored and check for other anomalies. I mean when I'm Really bored.

I've noticed differences in letters on other cards of Naturel's. I'm wondering if the difference is capitalized as apposed to lower case? That might be a stretch, but I'm hoping there's a good reason for the anomalies.

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by kabrune2

I personally think it has everything to do with centering. I'd say 2 in 5 Project 2020 cards are centered better than 60/40 both left/right and up/down, the other 3 generally are not. At least that's been my experience with the handful of 5 packs I've bought. I don't understand how a premium product costing $15-$20/ea can't be centered properly. So in essence 60% of the Project 2020 cards wouldn't get past a PSA 9. Myself, I plan on framing at least 1 or 2 of the 20 card artist collections at the end, so i'll be keeping them in the original holder, but I'll be picky when buying off eBay.

Topps' crack team of quality control experts must be working from home.

[PDCCollectibles]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

sad to see Jake close shop.

It is, especially when it probably wasn't even his fault.....I had that same issue selling that last week in May...returns, cases, etc. I only sold about 700 cards....can only imagine what it was like for him. Although, I'd happily go through it again for the same returns this Project was getting It was annoying and a little stressful to say the least though...

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

I'm serious.

Ton's of other artists are amazing as well, but less is more in regards to this set. Same with consistency. Like you said, you knew what the cards would look like before they were shown. I think this is a good thing.

Vides is as "safe" of an artist there is of the 19 artists in the project.

his cards are straight drawn on copies of the original, with dashes, lines and dots added to them.

they are the perfect cards for the person that wants the original, but cannot (or will not) pay up for one and is not interested in the dozen other re-printed versions that topps has issued over the years

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by 1977 Cloth

I agree with you, and the only benefits to grading is the identifier of the player/artist on the flip. Not worth the cash to grade them, but there is a market that loves themselves some slabs. 4 graded artist proofs just sold this weekend for an average of $300 each. Not a good ROI.

that info is on the back of the card

[1977 Cloth]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

that info is on the back of the card

Eric,

You are kidding me? I haven't turned any of them over yet. I will have to do that and see.

Come on bro, I was just saying that for display purposes it is the only benefit I can see for grading. Several people have talked about framing these. It is hard to look at the back in a frame.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by 1977 Cloth

Eric,

You are kidding me? I haven't turned any of them over yet. I will have to do that and see.

Come on bro, I was just saying that for display purposes it is the only benefit I can see for grading. Several people have talked about framing these. It is hard to look at the back in a frame.

Matt is offering a see-thru back frame!

but yea, the "big draw" for slabbing P2020s is the registry. Get them added to the Registry, and BOOM! 10's bring good money

[ThoseBackPages]

Ballers Gwynn is the perfect gift for the old school Padres Fan!

https://twitter.com/BENBALLER/status...63118740525056

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by 1977 Cloth

Eric,

You are kidding me? I haven't turned any of them over yet. I will have to do that and see.

Come on bro, I was just saying that for display purposes it is the only benefit I can see for grading. Several people have talked about framing these. It is hard to look at the back in a frame.

[ThoseBackPages]

SEE!! LOL

[UGLI baby]

I’m Ron Burgundy?

[superdan49]

Naturel deserves more P2020 love. Supremely talented artist.

[vermonty]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Ballers Gwynn is the perfect gift for the old school Padres Fan!

https://twitter.com/BENBALLER/status...63118740525056

Immediately becomes my favorite Baller card. I didn't love all the diamonds; the more understated look is nice. I like how happy Tony Gwynn appears in the portrait.

[AirplaneDon]

Okay, here is my wall of text for my updated artist tiers now that we are through the half way point. Definitely some changes. I tried to think about this more in terms of what the artist cards makes me think/feel rather than if it just looks nice or not. Anyway, here's a ton of text all about one person's opinion so far. Enjoy, or don't.

Sets I'm collecting: Ermsy, Siff, Shore, JK5, and maybe Naturel.

1st Tier – The Standouts
Ermsy: So technically Ermsy has moved down on my list from beign above everyone to being part of the first tier. Really, most of it is me, I’ve gotten used to how he interprets cards and it really no longer moves me in a new way. His cards still takes me on fun, or confusing, or terrifying journey, but I’m just not finding new things in them. Still some of the most aesthetically pleasing in the set, but I want him to move on to something else at this point away from cards. I think his Koufax and Brett have been my favorite cards since my first list where Williams and Gibson took it for me. Best: Ted Williams. Worst: Ichiro
Fucci: My feelings on Fucci have largely stayed the same, but I think his cards have gotten better as well. The cards where the faceless player looks out at me continue to feel uncomfortably predatory, but I feel like there has been a lot more innocence added to the background of the cards. I’m a fan of his cards, and officially regret not collecting his set. Best: Frank Thomas. Worst: Cal Ripken Jr.
Gregory Siff: I feel like his set as a whole has gotten worse, and there have been some not so great cards since I last did this list, but in general I still feel his cards rank amongst some of the strongest. I certainly don’t know where he’ll end up on each one. His cards all make me feel something. Whether it’s violence, paranoia, joy, they elicit something from me. My main gripe is that his art is infusing too many small pop images on them now, and I had imagined the set displaying as a collection of small pop images themselves. It’s a bit too inception for me at this point. I still think he is one of the strongest artists of the set. Strongest: George Brett. Worst: Bob Gibson.
Keith Shore: He has moved up from my How Do I Really feel tier on my first list. I know there have been complaints that his work isn’t as playful, but I strongly disagree. I know the Harry style hats have gone, but if that’s all that was doing it for you, you were missing it. He is really have fun with the cards now. The Brett, Thomas, and Gooden all smack you in the face with fun. The fact that he drew the cartoon pirate in detail is hilarious on his Clemente card, though that almost seems more trollish than fun. I think Keith Shore cards have gotten stronger in what they bring to the table; making us all remember this is a game we fell in love with as children ( well not all of us, but you know how that goes). Best: Frank Thomas. Worst: Ichiro.
2nd Tier – On the Edge of Glory
King Saladeen: Moved down from the standout tier from my first list. I still think his cards are really strong aesthetically. But what they tell me is often all about him, and not about the player. It’s an odd balance, because what I don’t like about some of Efdot’s are the lack of his personality/POV I get from the cards, yet here I am saying Saladeen gets dinged because it’s too much him. I think the Clemente is the exception to this, I feel all Clemente, but then I’m not the biggest fan of that card aesthetically. I think they are clearly visually pleasing cards, he is just getting dinged for me not being able to put it all together when I look at his cards. Oh and the borders, good grief, some of those odd ratios on the borders. Best: Nolan Ryan. Worst: Ichiro.
Naturel: After taking Keith Shore’s spot in the first list, he lost it back to him this go around. It’s not so much him, as much as I think Keith has hit his stride. There remains a childlike whimsy to his cards that I get lost in every time. Simple shapes used to breathe life in to flat cards. I immensely enjoy his work, but some of the simpler cards lose some of that whimsy, and I can’t have all my favorites in that top tier. Best: Frank Thomas. Worst: Roberto Clemente.
Don C: Moving all the way up from the lowest tier. Moving all the way up while making cards I don’t really find aesthetically pleasing. So what am I doing?!? His cards make me feel something and question design choices. They are all interesting and provoke thought. Shin was right about my player set review, I rewarded average a lot when I thought the base card was weak. With this list I’m deciding to “reward” artists that make me do something outside of just say that looks cool. He’s also one of the few artists where I think to myself, “ I can’t imagine what his next card will look like.” That’s value to me that I want to reward at the halfway point when fatigue sets in a bit. Best: Mariano Rivera. Worst: Willie Mays.
Andrew Thiele: Another big mover, up from Tier 4 on my original list. I still don’t really love any of his cards. I think his set simply is not for me. That said, I absolutely love the Williams, it’s museum quality with how it makes me think and feel. He has some real duds in there for me too, like his Mattingly, where I just don’t get anything from his card at all. But then there are other cards where, I don’t like it, but it does something. Like his Henderson, not for me, but I find myself getting caught up in a tornado in that card; it’s dizzying. Then there are cards like his Mays and Ryan where I find them beautiful, but there is also excellent movement within the card that provides excitement within a static image. I think I’ve changed the way I’ve looked at his cards; the more people reiterate the same compliments or criticisms, the harder I tend to look, and the more open minded I try to become with that artist/card. Thiele has benefitted from me revisiting his cards. Best: Ted Williams. Worst: Don Mattingly.
3rd Tier – How do I really feel?
Efdot: Efdot’s set has been odd for me. I feel like you can see him finding himself within the set as we move along. I really enjoy that part of it all. I think there are cards that became over cluttered with references, others that may have suffered from a lack of vision, and then others that were absolute homeruns. Part of my issue was that I came in wanting something specific from his set; his “doodles”. I think we are starting to see more of that (background of Jeter, Oriole on Ripken, etc.) but I wish it was front and center. I continue to think his Jackie is his stand out. He put a ton in to that card and it doesn’t read as cluttered to me. It also resonates with me. Best: Jackie Robinson. Worst: Derek Jeter.
JK5: JK5 has remained the same for me even though he has changed it up quite a bit. His black & white based cards remain hindered by how they show at a distance. His color cards I think help solve that problem, but I’m not sure I enjoy them compositionally. Something I have to wait to get in my hands for sure before I can really tell. The details remain overwhelming, but the color may help create definition that could be quite pleasing at a distance in person. His cards don’t speak to me in a way beyond the “nerd” references though. It’s more of an aesthetic improvement for the practicality of displaying the card. So while an improvement I feel if I ‘m talking about how a card moves me, I can’t really move him up at this point. Best: Ichiro. Worst: Derek Jeter.
Matt Taylor: Moving up a tier here. I think most people love his Henderson, but it does nothing for me other than I would wear it as a shirt. But the more I look at his Clemente and his Ripken, the more they make me feel; whether it’s the sadness in Clemente or getting lost in the drama of the Ripken. He has plenty of cards I don’t like, but I wanted to move him up for how strong his strongest cards are for me. Best: Cal Ripken Jr. Worst: Derek Jeter.
Jacob Rochester: Moving all the way up from the 5th tier. I found his earlier cards too muted from his chosen borders. I think the movement, energy, and emotion captured in his player art has remained the same, but compositionally the cards have improved a great deal. There is life in his cards, but that life was almost snuffed out by his borders. Fortunately his work have moved to be more focused on the players (though I think his Ichiro is a great class in graphic design, it also supports the player as opposed to distracting from them). Grossly underrated by me the first time through. Best: Bob Gibson if allowed. Worst: Mike Trout.
Tyson Beck: From standout to the 3rd tier. I don’t know if he really belong here, but it’s kind of how it shook out. My favorite cards remain the ones that remind me of inspiration boards/collages. Something in that speaks to my art class experiences in HS. The composition looks really interesting and makes it more than a card. His worst are cards that just look like cards (and the Koufax which is just a mess). His Mariano is neither, but is the best of the bunch to me, the card draws me in every time I look at it. Best: Mariano Rivera. Worst: Sandy Koufax & Derek Jeter.
4th Tier – You look nice but we just aren’t speaking the same language
Vides: I still don’t know where to put Vides. I think his set looks very nice. I like his aesthetic, and I’ve come around to him knowing best to keep the color (man we are all so arrogant around here the way we talk about the artist work and how to make it better, I love it). The contrast has been enough in a lot of the recent cards, whether it’s within the jersey or with the background. His Ryan card is surprisingly nice. His Doc is a top card in the set for me. And I can still feel lost in his world at times. However, I just don’t feel like I get lost in it enough to put him any higher. Best: Dwight Gooden. Worst: Sandy Koufax.
Blake Jamieson: I think this is just a me thing. I don’t look at his cards and feel. The art is good, the composition is generally on point, but they just read as really nice looking card art for me at the end of the day. I think his set will look amazing together with the colors and style he is using, the cards just aren’t talking to me like Mr. Robot normally does. Best: Rickey Henderson. Worst: Mike Trout.
Sophia Chang: This is just the art not speaking to me again. I also think the cards result are extremely dependent on the color blocking for me. So some aren’t particularly appealing aesthetically either if the color blocking creates an issue with the illustrations in the background for my eyes. A forum favorite that just isn’t interesting to me. Best: Mariano Rivera. Worst: Ichiro.
Mister Cartoon: His Clemente is brilliant, and he likely doesn’t belong here. I find his genre of art cold, and it’s that personal bias that keeps me at arm’s length when looking at his cards. I moved him up from the bottom tier because I think his art moves others, and I will continue to go back and try to look at it in new ways; the Clemente was not an accident, I’m certain there is more here (like the joy found in his Gooden). Best: Roberto Clemente. Worst: Jackie Robinson.
5th Tier – Not going to be negative, but here we are
Oldmanalan: This is one of those ones where he has created some cool aesthetic work, but I don’t think they make me think or feel anything. I also don’t find myself curious for what is next. I think he has been stronger overall than Grotesk and Baller, but here they are sitting at the same table. His Koufax remain brilliant to me; the image with the border just pull me in every time. Best: Sandy Koufax. Worst: Mariano Rivera.
Grotesk: Shout out to the colonel here; these are playing cards. Some are extremely pleasing aesthetically, but they offer no POV or soul to me. Best: Tony Gwynn. Worst: Roberto Clemente.
Ben Baller: They don’t speak to me in anyway, make me feel anything, or look like anything than baseball cards. They read more like a stepping stone to getting his first set. I find BB fascinating, but his cards aren’t to me. Best: Ichiro and Henderson. Worst: It’s just a bunch of cards I don’t really care about in general.

[samcam]

Originally Posted by Viking6

Some people have no patience. He probably has return requests in the 100s if not 1000s from people backing out of orders.

RIP. He killed his own golden goose. If you can't communicate in a sales business, you are asking to lose. I, for one, am looking forward to not having to see the 100s of posts across all platforms asking if anybody has heard from Jake.

Why not just hire someone to fire off e-mails?

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Ballers Gwynn is the perfect gift for the old school Padres Fan!

https://twitter.com/BENBALLER/status...63118740525056

Finally a switch! That may be his best card!!!

Originally Posted by superdan49

Naturel deserves more P2020 love. Supremely talented artist.

Natty is the man! Vides Trout is stellar!

Today is an easy Dos si DO!

[RyanSwinger]

I must say Naturel has really grown on me.

His Mattingly today sort of has a comic book feel to it that I really like. Easy 2 pack today.