When Curry’s career is over will he be considered a Top 10 Player of All-Time?

[gomiamigo]

He's missed a lot of time and hasn't played well in the Finals and isn't a good defender, so no, he's not as good as Oscar or Moses [3x MVP, Finals MVP, kicked Kareem's ass in almost every matchup in his career] or even Durant yet, who will probably finish top 4 scorer all time and is miles better on defense.

Finishing in that 15-20 range with Shaq and Dirk and KG and Akeem is amazing enough.

Anyone who doesn't have Wilt in his top 10 can't be taken seriously. He's 1 or 1a.

As ninja said, let's see 5 years after all these guys retire. Not every great player can make the top 10 by definition. He's not yet ahead of Dr J, Barkley, West and those guys, either.

[Ross]

Top 10 means nothing but he will be top 5 most influential and iconic to the way the game is played going forward and for that he will be remembered and that’s what matters.


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[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by montej1695

There literally is NO discussion here, no debate, greatest shooter of all-time, he changed the NBA... how many can say that?

Besides Reggie Miller and Ray Allen?

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Ross

Top 10 means nothing but he will be top 5 most influential and iconic to the way the game is played going forward and for that he will be remembered and that’s what matters.


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That's totally era specific and completely subjective.

Was he more influential than Magic Johnson? Larry Bird? Julius Irving?

Reggie Miller was taking those 30 foot jumpers when Steph was in diapers.

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Hellcat

I go by what the GOAT Mr. Jordan has to stay about Kobe’s greatness. It’s good enough for me. I would want MJ and Kobe if my life depended on the game.

Same Kobe that went 6-24 in game 7 of the 2010 NBA Finals?

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Zedlaw

Are we really comparing Curry to Ray Allen and Reggie Miller. Two guys with a single combined top ten MVP season. Curry has 6

MVP seasons mean absolutely nothing.

LeBron James should have won MVP every season for the past decade. And he never wins any.

Steve Nash won two MVPs.

The NBA MVP award is a joke.

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Hellcat

Kobe will always be in the GOAT conversation. Come on man quit trolling. Jordan himself respects his game enough to say he’s the only one who could beat him one on one.

If you watched the Bulls "Last Dance" and you still respect anything Michael Jordan has to say about any other NBA player, ever? I don't know what to tell you.

That was 10 hours of Jordan insulting every guy to ever put sneakers on in the NBA.

It's what drove him... Fine.

But the fact that he was the best of all time as a player, doesn't mean his opinions of other players holds any more water than the next guy.

If you need evidence, look at his putrid record drafting and signing talent in his post playing days.

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by tadams1996

Kick Durant & Duncan out.

For Curry?

LMAO

[dkcardman]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

If you watched the Bulls "Last Dance" and you still respect anything Michael Jordan has to say about any other NBA player, ever? I don't know what to tell you.

That was 10 hours of Jordan insulting every guy to ever put sneakers on in the NBA.

It's what drove him... Fine.

But the fact that he was the best of all time as a player, doesn't mean his opinions of other players holds any more water than the next guy.

If you need evidence, look at his putrid record drafting and signing talent in his post playing days.

Your saying MJs opinion doesnt matter? That's not realistic. I'll take his opinion on the matter over any other single human in history when it comes to basketball.
And ones ability to select pre-career talent vs an analysis of post career greatness are 2 completely different things.

[eastbayak]

Don't know if Curry will crack the top 10 but at least he'll be ahead of Durant.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

No chance at all.


Reggie Miller and Ray Allen "changed the NBA" too.

And they are nowhere near the top ten, either.




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Please explain how these 2 changed the NBA. This take is laughably bad

[sebreg]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Please explain how these 2 changed the NBA. This take is laughably bad

Well. Reggie, one of my fav players growing up, was one of the first to innovate the 3pt leg kick out to draw fouls. Now commonly practiced by guys like Harden (aka, Basketball Hitler, at least according to reddit). Reggie def changed the game haha

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by Dame

This is going to be a heated debate, while I truly believe he deserves to be in the Top 10 list, who do you kick out?

MJ
Magic
Kareem
Bill
Lebron
Bird
Duncan
Olajuwon
Shaq
Kobe

A top 10 without Wilt Chamberlain? Uh, no.

But to the question at hand, no, Curry is not top 10. 15-20 range IMO.

[Tallboy]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Please explain how these 2 changed the NBA. This take is laughably bad

I'll actually bite here, but not to defend the general thesis.

To me you're talking about 3 of the 4 (the other being Louie Dampier) most important players in the history of the 3-point shot, which is the single biggest shift in the game in the since they outlawed goaltending. So yeah, they're all influential.

I'll highlight Reggie Miller in particular because Steph Curry has been pretty clear about taking inspiration primarily on 2 guys: Steve Nash, and Reggie.

Miller pioneered the style of running around off ball like a mad men to get a 3-point shot that proved to be extremely effective and impactful. Quite honestly, he effectively created a new position that basically every team should have at least one player doing.

But the truth is that not a lot of teams actually did that until the Splash Brothers led the Warriors to the chip.

It's appropriate to call Miller the grandfather of this position, but the true father of it is Curry, and hence while Miller deserves a mention as influential, it comes in a supporting role to Curry.

What about Ray? Less innovative certainly. Never the less, generally considered to be the best technical 3-point shooter ever before Steph arrive, which is no small thing. He, indeed, Got Game.

[Tallboy]

Originally Posted by sebreg

Well. Reggie, one of my fav players growing up, was one of the first to innovate the 3pt leg kick out to draw fouls. Now commonly practiced by guys like Harden (aka, Basketball Hitler, at least according to reddit). Reggie def changed the game haha

lol, it's true. Reggie Miller was f-ing Bugs Bunny out there.

[drobfan8]

As far as globally, no, Ray Allen and Reggie did not change the game.

Steph did. The other 2 are really nowhere near his impact.

If you're talking as a basketball purist and looking at form, Ray Allen has a perfect, textbook shot.

[ninjacookies]

Like someone else stated, Ray and Reggie were never even close to perennial mvp caliber talents.

It would be like comparing Gilbert Arenas to Kobe Bryant. Just because they both had occasional insane shooting nights, does not mean they were remotely in the same class.

The fact Ray and Reggie are even in this conversation makes for good Tosh.0 television.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Tallboy

I'll actually bite here, but not to defend the general thesis.

To me you're talking about 3 of the 4 (the other being Louie Dampier) most important players in the history of the 3-point shot, which is the single biggest shift in the game in the since they outlawed goaltending. So yeah, they're all influential.

I'll highlight Reggie Miller in particular because Steph Curry has been pretty clear about taking inspiration primarily on 2 guys: Steve Nash, and Reggie.

Miller pioneered the style of running around off ball like a mad men to get a 3-point shot that proved to be extremely effective and impactful. Quite honestly, he effectively created a new position that basically every team should have at least one player doing.

But the truth is that not a lot of teams actually did that until the Splash Brothers led the Warriors to the chip.

It's appropriate to call Miller the grandfather of this position, but the true father of it is Curry, and hence while Miller deserves a mention as influential, it comes in a supporting role to Curry.

What about Ray? Less innovative certainly. Never the less, generally considered to be the best technical 3-point shooter ever before Steph arrive, which is no small thing. He, indeed, Got Game.

While I don't really view that as "game changing" per se I do agree with the overall theme of your post. I always enjoy reading them because you're always so thoughtful. Even when responding to objectively bad and dumb takes.

Let me be perfectly clear in that I also don't believe that Steph Curry himself changed the game, it was the perfect storm of events (analytics, Kerr, roster)... etc Steph just turned out to be the best at analyticsball.

Before Steph became the Steph we know the NBA had already begun embracing analytics and the game slowly changed. I can't remember when but I think the major catalyst was the freedom of movement rule changes maybe mid-late 2000s?

Bottom line is that late 90s - early 2000s basketball was not a good product, the games generally sucked. After the freedom of movement changes analytics departments and coaching staffs figured out creative ways to make offense more efficient. Without looking at the stats I'm guessing that offense is the most efficient it's ever been.

Steph has 3 of the 5 greatest shooting seasons in NBA history, Harden and Lillard being the other 2. The problem is that this data only goes back about 8 years so it's impossible to quantify the other guys.

One thing that I believe is not discussed or understood enough is Stephs floor gravity. Reggie was an all time great shooter and competitor but had nowhere near the gravity of Steph just because he wasn't really a ball handler. Steph is getting blitzed once he comes across half court and is still making wild 30 footers while being double teamed.

The only other player I think of that had the shooting gravity of Steph would be maybe Bird? I'm not old enough to have watched him in person and there aren't really any metrics available tho so I'm really just going based on stuff I've seen/read.

I'm a big believer in the eye test. I use analytics to support what I watch and Steph passes both easily.

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Please explain how these 2 changed the NBA. This take is laughably bad

No, what is laughably bad is crapping on the two greatest shooters in NBA history before Curry.

If you need me to even begin to tell you how Reggie Miller and Ray Allen changed the NBA, then you should pick a new sport to follow.

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

While I don't really view that as "game changing" per se I do agree with the overall theme of your post. I always enjoy reading them because you're always so thoughtful. Even when responding to objectively bad and dumb takes.

Let me be perfectly clear in that I also don't believe that Steph Curry himself changed the game, it was the perfect storm of events (analytics, Kerr, roster)... etc Steph just turned out to be the best at analyticsball.

Before Steph became the Steph we know the NBA had already begun embracing analytics and the game slowly changed. I can't remember when but I think the major catalyst was the freedom of movement rule changes maybe mid-late 2000s?

Bottom line is that late 90s - early 2000s basketball was not a good product, the games generally sucked. After the freedom of movement changes analytics departments and coaching staffs figured out creative ways to make offense more efficient. Without looking at the stats I'm guessing that offense is the most efficient it's ever been.

Steph has 3 of the 5 greatest shooting seasons in NBA history, Harden and Lillard being the other 2. The problem is that this data only goes back about 8 years so it's impossible to quantify the other guys.

One thing that I believe is not discussed or understood enough is Stephs floor gravity. Reggie was an all time great shooter and competitor but had nowhere near the gravity of Steph just because he wasn't really a ball handler. Steph is getting blitzed once he comes across half court and is still making wild 30 footers while being double teamed.

The only other player I think of that had the shooting gravity of Steph would be maybe Bird? I'm not old enough to have watched him in person and there aren't really any metrics available tho so I'm really just going based on stuff I've seen/read.

I'm a big believer in the eye test. I use analytics to support what I watch and Steph passes both easily.

All of that self-important drivel to crap on a comment that two guys changed the game via over 5,500 combined career three point makes.


You're trying way too hard.


Edit: I bolded the meaningful part of your post. That explains everything. The guy who "goes by the seeing eye test" and isn't old enough to have seen Larry Bird play is going to tell us all about two players who are about 5 minutes younger than Larry Bird.

Good talk.

[GOATcards]

Rings matter a lot for this kind of discussion. Steph has 3 of them, but they all must be considered in the context of (1) Cavs losing Love and Irving in '15 and (2) decisive wins over Cavs requiring another MVP-level player (KD). It was KD getting the Finals MVPs (and Iggy the '15 FMVP).

He's a multiple-MVP winner (2x) which puts him in pretty select company, his total career MVP vote shares ('Award Shares') are getting up there. Top-10 all-time players are for the most part those who for some period of years were clearly the best in the league. Curry's competition in that dept has meant Award Shares in the 2.0-2.5 range while the traditional Top Ten are all above 4 (and the top GOAT candidates now above 8).

Jerry West was reputedly the best shooter of his era, and for some period of time he was consistently in top-10 discussions, but zero(?) MVP awards (but one Finals MVP in a losing cause (?!)), top-20-ish Award Shares, and I guess just one ring with the '72 Lakers . . . means that Wilt and Bill (and maybe Oscar) go ahead of him in the Top-x discussions. Should the Curry comparison be more to someone like West than to someone like Kobe/Shaq/Tim?

[rustywest]

First reply ... just about sums it up! Durability/Longevity + sustained 3 point insanity =

Originally Posted by byronscott4ever

It depends on how long he plays....so maybe

Imagine Giannis on the Dubs


Curry's April explosion coincided with Russ' outrageous triple double dominance, that ticked me off somewhat


Play in fireworks

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

No, what is laughably bad is crapping on the two greatest shooters in NBA history before Curry.

If you need me to even begin to tell you how Reggie Miller and Ray Allen changed the NBA, then you should pick a new sport to follow.

No, I do need you to. Pretend that I know absolutely nothing about the NBA.

If it's so obvious it should be easy for you to lay out.

You're no different than half the board slamming my analysis without actually providing anything of value from your end.

[jcardstore]

Reggie Miller is the greatest off-ball shooter of all time, that seems a bit more accurate.

Steph isn't an off-ball shooter and I value shot creation more than off screen shooting.

[wood minis]

I don't know about top 10, but he is fun to watch shoot.