**The Perennial MIKE TROUT Thread**

[theshowandme]

Up until 1931 what we know as ground rule doubles were actually scored as home runs




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[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Up until 1931 what we know as ground rule doubles were actually scored as home runs




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Up until a few years ago grown men could steal bases without using oven mitts so they wouldn’t hurt their fingers.


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[finfangfan]

How many in this thread are Trout fans/collectors but not Angels fans? It seems like most of the talk is HOF (which I think we can all agree is guaranteed) versus “inner circle” (which is a poorly defined term and probably not worth arguing over since no set definition).

However, I think the truly sad thing that’s going to play out over the next 7 years is the Angels are going to be saddled with Trout’s HUGE contract that is compensation for PAST performance. Believe me, as an O’s fan, Chris Davis’ contract for PAST performance sank the O’s for several years and it looks like Trout will sink the Angels franchise for the next 7 years. Plus, they will lose Ohtani because too much $ is tied up in injury-prone Trout and all the “What if?” Chatter that will surround that.

So is Trout getting into the Hall? No question, yes! Will the next 7 years be analogous to a homecoming king post-drunk driving accident slowly speaking before the HS student body to sympathetic applause for the “good old days”? Most likely.

This thread is going to be a train wreck the next 7 years due to the simple fact humans age, the body breaks down, and the glory days are gone forever as players age.

Everyone knows puppies grow old and die. It’s still sad to watch and decade plus contracts kill franchises. Trout will be sad to watch but definitely get into the Hall if Rolen got in.

[ThoseBackPages]

i root for players over teams

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

Not ignorant at all. I value raw data over "interpreted" data in every walk of life.

I'm confident enough in my own mental faculties to interpret the data. For myself.

I don't need it to be filtered through arbitrary and biased human adjustments

The two bolded words are subjective, and there are no parameters for how this is determined (by you or anyone else). Without providing clarity, any stat can be deemed arbitrary or biased… which would frustrate the ability to actually have the conversation.

[BigSeph]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

The two bolded words are subjective, and there are no parameters for how this is determined (by you or anyone else). Without providing clarity, any stat can be deemed arbitrary or biased… which would frustrate the ability to actually have the conversation.

Except traditional real stats that happen on a baseball field like H, R, RBI, HR, SB, BB, and direct rate % from those actual events like OBP or SLG.

There is no subjectivity to that. Those are actual events and real data points.

[spuds1961]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

Except traditional real stats that happen on a baseball field like H, R, RBI, HR, SB, BB, and direct rate % from those actual events like OBP or SLG.

There is no subjectivity to that. Those are actual events and real data points.

Thank you.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by oplum29

you think Griffey juiced?

And did I miss something about Thome juicing as well?

And if we're just going to speculate that they all did, then who's to say that we aren't going to speculate that Trout did?

[SaltyCracker]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

i root for players over teams

Same!!

Admittedly, I felt slightly dirty wearing a Acuna jersey into Progressive field a couple days ago. Luckily the section was about 50/50.

[fabiani12333]

There are 269 players in the baseball Hall of Fame. Let's say 10% are what you'd consider inner circle. Maybe expand it to include players who are statistically worthy of the Hall of Fame but who have been blackballed, aren't eligible yet, or are currently playing. So let's say 30 players total are in the inner circle of all time great players. Looking at the list of 100 WAR players, 2/3 are position players and 1/3 are starting pitchers. So let's say 20 position players and 10 starting pitchers make up the 30 greatest of all time player list.

Here's Joe Posnanski's 2020 top-35 players all time -- Trout sneaked into the top 30:

1. Willie Mays
2. Babe Ruth
3. Barry Bonds
4. Hank Aaron
5. Oscar Charleston
6. Ted Williams
7. Walter Johnson
8. Ty Cobb
9. Stan Musial
10. Satchel Paige
11. Mickey Mantle
12. Honus Wagner
13. Roger Clemens
14. Lou Gehrig
15. Josh Gibson
16. Alex Rodriguez
17. Rogers Hornsby
18. Tris Speaker
20. Mike Schmidt
20. Frank Robinson
21. Joe Morgan
22. Lefty Grove
23. Albert Pujols
24. Rickey Henderson
25. Pop Lloyd
26. Pete Alexander
27. Mike Trout
28. Randy Johnson
29. Eddie Collins
30. Johnny Bench
31. Greg Maddux
32. Mel Ott
33. Jimmie Foxx
34. Cy Young
35. George Brett

But since 2020, Trout has missed a lot of games. If he misses the rest of this season, he'll have missed half of his team's games the last 3 seasons. So would he still be in Posnanski's top-30 players of all time list?

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Up until a few years ago grown men could steal bases without using oven mitts so they wouldn’t hurt their fingers.


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Imagine if Trout got to run against guys who threw 75 mph and catchers who had off-season jobs as used car salesmen

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Here's Joe Posnanski's 2020 top-35 players all time -- Trout sneaked into the top 30:

I bought this book last Friday and thought about returning it when I saw Ichiro was #100

[atk825]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

How many in this thread are Trout fans/collectors but not Angels fans? It seems like most of the talk is HOF (which I think we can all agree is guaranteed) versus “inner circle” (which is a poorly defined term and probably not worth arguing over since no set definition).

However, I think the truly sad thing that’s going to play out over the next 7 years is the Angels are going to be saddled with Trout’s HUGE contract that is compensation for PAST performance. Believe me, as an O’s fan, Chris Davis’ contract for PAST performance sank the O’s for several years and it looks like Trout will sink the Angels franchise for the next 7 years. Plus, they will lose Ohtani because too much $ is tied up in injury-prone Trout and all the “What if?” Chatter that will surround that.

So is Trout getting into the Hall? No question, yes! Will the next 7 years be analogous to a homecoming king post-drunk driving accident slowly speaking before the HS student body to sympathetic applause for the “good old days”? Most likely.

This thread is going to be a train wreck the next 7 years due to the simple fact humans age, the body breaks down, and the glory days are gone forever as players age.

Everyone knows puppies grow old and die. It’s still sad to watch and decade plus contracts kill franchises. Trout will be sad to watch but definitely get into the Hall if Rolen got in.

And they got a 10 WAR season out of him when he made $550,000. That's how salary based on experience works.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Here's Joe Posnanski's 2020 top-35 players all time -- Trout sneaked into the top 30:


1. Willie Mays
2. Babe Ruth
3. Barry Bonds
4. Hank Aaron
5. Oscar Charleston
6. Ted Williams
7. Walter Johnson
8. Ty Cobb
9. Stan Musial
10. Satchel Paige
11. Mickey Mantle
12. Honus Wagner
13. Roger Clemens
14. Lou Gehrig
15. Josh Gibson
16. Alex Rodriguez
17. Rogers Hornsby
18. Tris Speaker
20. Mike Schmidt
20. Frank Robinson
21. Joe Morgan
22. Lefty Grove
23. Albert Pujols
24. Rickey Henderson
25. Pop Lloyd
26. Pete Alexander
27. Mike Trout
28. Randy Johnson
29. Eddie Collins
30. Johnny Bench
31. Greg Maddux
32. Mel Ott
33. Jimmie Foxx
34. Cy Young
35. George Brett

no Joe DiMaggio in the Top 30???? yeah this dude's list is complete trash...

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

Except traditional real stats that happen on a baseball field like H, R, RBI, HR, SB, BB, and direct rate % from those actual events like OBP or SLG.

There is no subjectivity to that. Those are actual events and real data points.

Understood, but accept rather than except, right?

[shanks25]

Originally Posted by oplum29

no Joe DiMaggio in the Top 30???? yeah this dude's list is complete trash...

Nice to see Oscar get some long overdue respect. I just finished the oscar Charleston book and it's fantastic!!!

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Imagine if Trout got to run against guys who threw 75 mph and catchers who had off-season jobs as used car salesmen

Well he doesn’t do well against the best pitchers the past 20 years.
Verlander and Kershaw own him.

And lately pitchers don’t have to worry about him. He’s on the bench most of the time injured.


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[tjforce]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Imagine if Trout got to run against guys who threw 75 mph and catchers who had off-season jobs as used car salesmen

And you can make that arguement for Pujols, and Harper, and Bonds, and Miggy, and Griffey, and anyone else who’s played the last 40 years.

I feel like so many of the Pro-Trout arguements these days are theoreticals and ‘what-ifs’.


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[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by tjforce

And you can make that arguement for Pujols, and Harper, and Bonds, and Miggy, and Griffey, and anyone else who’s played the last 40 years.

I feel like so many of the Pro-Trout arguements these days are theoreticals and ‘what-ifs’.


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It is not theoretical to say Mike has been the best position player for a decade when the game has had the most talented crop of talent that it has ever had.


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[tjforce]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

It is not theoretical to say Mike has been the best position player for a decade when the game has had the most talented crop of talent that it has ever had.


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That's fine, but it's different than what you said earlier.

If your logic was that Trout playing in the 60s, or whatever era you were referring to, would have hit more than 368 home runs to this point, then the logic should be that it would have had the same effect of Pujols and he'd have been been over 703, and Griffey over 630, etc.

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

It is not theoretical to say Mike has been the best position player for a decade when the game has had the most talented crop of talent that it has ever had.


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Originally Posted by theshowandme

It is not theoretical to say Mike has been the best position player for a decade when the game has had the most talented crop of talent that it has ever had.


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That’s interesting. How many gold gloves has he won? I must’ve e missed those ceremonies. Nolan Arenado has 10 straight GG. Trout has zero.
You’d think the best POSITION player would have at least one GG. Wonder why? Mookie has 6.
Kevin Kiermaier has 3. No, Troitbis not the best position player. He hasn’t been the best at his position once. Great hitter, not an elite fielder.


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[Neal]

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Should the hobby and its collectors pay inner circle prices for non-inner circle HOF players cards (post retirement)?

That rarely happens with HOFers. Ultra modern, however, is a different story ...

At the end of his career, Trout will remain in the inner circle.

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[atk825]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

That’s interesting. How many gold gloves has he won? I must’ve e missed those ceremonies. Nolan Arenado has 10 straight GG. Trout has zero.
You’d think the best POSITION player would have at least one GG. Wonder why? Mookie has 6.
Kevin Kiermaier has 3. No, Troitbis not the best position player. He hasn’t been the best at his position once. Great hitter, not an elite fielder.


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Position player as opposed to pitcher. And by basically all metrics, it’s been Trout, pretty easily. And I say this as a Betts person.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Will Trout's prices drop as his stats and health decline?
Will Trout's prices drop post retirement (pre HOF induction)?

US175 was dipping pre-hamate. Others, like the Finest auto, seem to be holding steady

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[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Kevin Kiermaier


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This thread has jumped the shark


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