PSA upcharges on cards valued slightly over $500

[oddstuff]

Saw a post on IG where a submitter had a card upcharged to $74.99 even though the value of the graded card was much closer to $500 than $1500. Has this happened to anyone else or is PSA getting much stricter to ramp up their profits?


Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

[KPOD]

Assume you're referring to Neo's video. If it's more than $500 after getting graded you're paying the $74.99 PSA price, there is no middle-ground anymore as they don't offer any services that cover up to $999.99 like they used to.

[ChaseUA]

Typically when I’ve seen this it’s due to a card with a rapidly decreasing card value - usually an early to market card that has some examples that sold for $1k+ a month ago and now selling for closer to $500. PSA’s Market Value is based on all recent sales and is weighted strictly toward the most recent.

[mfcrox]

Random question...

PSA values my card at $700 and charges 'accordingly'. I then put it up for sale on its return and it sells for only $455. Are PSA reimbursing me the difference in their incorrect charge? Or are they completely unaccountable to this?

I think I already know the answer, but looking forward to a PSheepA response.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by mfcrox

Random question...

PSA values my card at $700 and charges 'accordingly'. I then put it up for sale on its return and it sells for only $455. Are PSA reimbursing me the difference in their incorrect charge? Or are they completely unaccountable to this?

I think I already know the answer, but looking forward to a PSheepA response.

The simplest answer is don’t use the service if you don’t like it.

All the complaining about upcharges and very few thanks when you slip one by. I maintain it is best to submit everything at bulk as those orders get the least attention. Not hard to get cards through that should be 3+ levels higher.

[mfcrox]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The simplest answer is don’t use the service if you don’t like it.

All the complaining about upcharges and very few thanks when you slip one by. I maintain it is best to submit everything at bulk as those orders get the least attention. Not hard to get cards through that should be 3+ levels higher.

Didn't really answer my question... but thanks for responding.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by mfcrox

Random question...

PSA values my card at $700 and charges 'accordingly'. I then put it up for sale on its return and it sells for only $455. Are PSA reimbursing me the difference in their incorrect charge? Or are they completely unaccountable to this?

I think I already know the answer, but looking forward to a PSheepA response.

These are PSA rules and you can play the game or use someone else. Of course after they upcharge and you accept, they don't care for what your card sells for. I do send cards to PSA and I know if something crazy happens, I might have to pay up. For instance I graded a 1965 Philadelphia Fran Tarkenton that received a PSA 8. It had a solid chance for a 9 IMO. If it got a 9 it would 10 times in price to the last two sales of $1600/$1700. They could have upcharged to the $129 level. Things like this have happened before and I just pay up. The only reason the cards have these insane prices are because PSA slabs demand this premium and PSA knows it. They get 1.3 million slabs every month with this policy and people keep on submitting. It is a smart business move on their end. They know they got you by the balls and it they have no incentive to not upcharge. SGC still upcharges on vintage, so it is just not PSA that does this.

If anyone hates this policy, there is a simple way not to deal with it. Use SGC/CGC/BGS because your cards won't gain much value over raw and upcharging won't happen.

[ChaseUA]

Originally Posted by mfcrox

Random question...

PSA values my card at $700 and charges 'accordingly'. I then put it up for sale on its return and it sells for only $455. Are PSA reimbursing me the difference in their incorrect charge? Or are they completely unaccountable to this?

I think I already know the answer, but looking forward to a PSheepA response.

No they won’t refund you, just like if you paid the $499 level for a card that gems and you sell for $800 you won’t reach out to PSA to pay more for it. But the fact remains, even if you paid $60 more for grading the card and it sells for $455, you likely still came out ahead as the same card likely would have went for $375 in another companies slab.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by mfcrox

Didn't really answer my question... but thanks for responding.

Asking questions you already know the answer to is stupid. Easier to just start whining about it.

[Woodsy074]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1285177

[Woodsy074]

Originally Posted by KPOD

Assume you're referring to Neo's video. If it's more than $500 after getting graded you're paying the $74.99 PSA price, there is no middle-ground anymore as they don't offer any services that cover up to $999.99 like they used to.

And this is the issue. Given the watered down PSA Guarantee which is why the whole system exists, people should just downright reject them and sell the cards raw saying it graded a 10 with PSA with a screenshot of the upcharge email.

[RufussCkingston]

I think when you sub at level higher than bulk, because the sub size is smaller, they are more scrutinizing on declared values vs the graded value. I've sent in thousands using bulk and specials with DV limits of $99 to $199 and have NEVER had an upcharge, but get cards back worth $300-$1k(not many this high). I think part of it is only PSA 10's hit these prices where a PSA 9 is like way under $100.

[Woodsy074]

Originally Posted by RufussCkingston

I think when you sub at level higher than bulk, because the sub size is smaller, they are more scrutinizing on declared values vs the graded value. I've sent in thousands using bulk and specials with DV limits of $99 to $199 and have NEVER had an upcharge, but get cards back worth $300-$1k(not many this high). I think part of it is only PSA 10's hit these prices where a PSA 9 is like way under $100.

All the upcharges will be done with AI. It doesn't matter where you sub. Its a simple algorithm between sold / grade of card which is very easy to train. First movers will have the advantage.

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by oddstuff

Saw a post on IG where a submitter had a card upcharged to $74.99 even though the value of the graded card was much closer to $500 than $1500. Has this happened to anyone else or is PSA getting much stricter to ramp up their profits?


Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

Upgrading is based on 2 things..... Sales Data and the Reviewer you get for upcharges

1. Data..... if recent sales data exists and the reviewer finds it you will get hit with an upcharge.

2. Data..... if recent sales data exists and reviewer doesn't care or can't find it, or is having a good day and let's a close one slide; you won't get upcharged

3. Data... if it's likely a card is worth a lot more than your declared value after grading but there is no sales data to be found you won't be upcharded

"I personally had a high profile 1/1 graded at this past national show.... I did the 2499 declared value figuring they would upcharge the item when it graded an 8............. it ended up being a 10 and worth potentially 8k plus in my opinion... no upcharge...... but they did upcharge a card in that same order that got a 10 which sold for 3500 as a PSA 10 two months prior"

I'm always prepared for an upcharge when data exists... and that outcome is rightly so.... that's the terms of the agreement I've made and the service they provide. However; I submit a lot of items with zero data points and often nothing comparable over the past 3 months. I do not expect to get upcharged on those items when they gem or 9 and I never once have in the 10 years I've submitted.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Woodsy074

All the upcharges will be done with AI. It doesn't matter where you sub. It’s a simple algorithm between sold / grade of card which is very easy to train. First movers will have the advantage.

Has to have reliable data to train with. No sales, no data. Wonky sales, wonky data.

[Woodsy074]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Has to have reliable data to train with. No sales, no data. Wonky sales, wonky data.

Exactly why I said first movers have the advantage. Once sales pop, it’s over. Why do you think they are partnering with eBay? To get access to terapeak and actual completed / paid for transactions on the largest sales platform. It will be up to the submitter to prove a comp is bad which is impossible.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Woodsy074

Exactly why I said first movers have the advantage. Once sales pop, it’s over. Why do you think they are partnering with eBay? To get access to terapeak and actual completed / paid for transactions on the largest sales platform. It will be up to the submitter to prove a comp is bad which is impossible.

Terapeak isn’t reliable anymore. I think we’ve all experienced that. Now maybe eBay has separate paid data they can provide PSA with. I think you’re giving them too much credit though. I also don’t think they want to upcharge every single card that deserves it, or even a majority of them. It’s not an appealing part of submitting to them, and they know it.

[waytoomanycards]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Terapeak isn’t reliable anymore. I think we’ve all experienced that. Now maybe eBay has separate paid data they can provide PSA with. I think you’re giving them too much credit though. I also don’t think they want to upcharge every single card that deserves it, or even a majority of them. It’s not an appealing part of submitting to them, and they know it.

Agreed. I've never had an upcharge, and I'd bet they probably pass on upcharging 10 $500 slabs for every 1 they upcharge.

I remember being at shows on Friday nights and hearing a PSA rep grovel with large dealers, trying to get them to agree to a bulk deal below sheet costs. For the majority of their existence, they've had to solicit business. It's only a question of when, not if, those days return, unless they really want to reduce volume. Getting aggressive with upcharges would only accelerate it.

[IndySportsCards]

Originally Posted by mfcrox

Random question...

PSA values my card at $700 and charges 'accordingly'. I then put it up for sale on its return and it sells for only $455. Are PSA reimbursing me the difference in their incorrect charge? Or are they completely unaccountable to this?

I think I already know the answer, but looking forward to a PSheepA response.

Extortion only works one way, in the Dons favor

[The_Reverend]

As it relates to upcharge, people know what the game is when they submit. Don’t blame PSA if they become more stringent on values. There are 3 other companies that do not upcharge. Why do people not use them? We all know the answer.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by The_Reverend

As it relates to upcharge, people know what the game is when they submit. Don’t blame PSA if they become more stringent on values. There are 3 other companies that do not upcharge. Why do people not use them? We all know the answer.

What are these three companies? Only one that has no upcharges and that is Beckett of the major 4. SGC has no upcharges for 2001 to today, but will upcharge cards older than 2000. CGC will upcharge as well, but they did increase declared value from $250 to $1000 recently for their lowest levels.

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

What are these three companies? Only one that has no upcharges and that is Beckett of the major 4. SGC has no upcharges for 2001 to today, but will upcharge cards older than 2000. CGC will upcharge as well, but they did increase declared value from $250 to $1000 recently for their lowest levels.

Good information to know, even though I have never had an upcharge because I send cards at the value level that fits. People are trying to sneak high dollar cards in bulk and now PSA is upcharging them. It is their policy and even though it makes no sense when the submitter pays for insurance for the card to be returned to them.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by The_Reverend

Good information to know, even though I have never had an upcharge because I send cards at the value level that fits. People are trying to sneak high dollar cards in bulk and now PSA is upcharging them. It is their policy and even though it makes no sense when the submitter pays for insurance for the card to be returned to them.

I don't think people are trying to sneak in the cards, it is just the premiums associated with higher grades with PSA slabs. If the card gets a PSA 9 it falls under the limit, but only goes over the limit when it gems. Why would you pay for the chance it gets a 10? Just let PSA upcharge you when it does.

BGS has no real protection for buyers with their slabs. They don't need to upcharge because they don't stand behind their slabs financially. Buyer beware with BGS. The buyer of a BGS slab with a red PMG is having a nightmare situation because of this.

SGC doesn't really get big cards too often in SGC slabs for ultra-modern. It is not a big risk for them to not upcharge. However, they upcharge with vintage because they do have financial risk slabbing up big cards like the 1952 Mantle, expensive Babe Ruth cards, etc... They don't have an official policy, but SGC has stated publicly they stand behind all cards in their slabs and have given refunds.

CGC has a very similar policy to PSA and stand behind their slabs with verbiage in their policies. They will 100% upcharge for a big card and have.

[bear0555]

I got destroyed with the $75 upcharge on this card, when I previously didn't get upcharged getting a 9 on two of them:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/176403432552

An upcharge to $75 seemed too high, and they refused to lower it. I only accepted the upcharge b/c I feel a 9 is a high grade for it. I had a couple other 9s in the order which I gladly declined and received back ungraded. On a separate order, I also had a few 9s returned to me ungraded. I was stunned when a couple of them were still slabbed [but decertified], and a couple I didn't ask to be returned ungraded were returned ungraded WITH the certification labels included.

[Woodsy074]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Terapeak isn’t reliable anymore. I think we’ve all experienced that. Now maybe eBay has separate paid data they can provide PSA with. I think you’re giving them too much credit though. I also don’t think they want to upcharge every single card that deserves it, or even a majority of them. It’s not an appealing part of submitting to them, and they know it.

What is clear is that Collector's Universe is adopting technology and trying to utilize it as much as possible to help the grading process . The upcharge process seems like very low hanging fruit and something very simple to to train a computer for first pass on. All the data that is needed for the algorithm are requirements for an eBay listing now(Professional Grader, Grade, Certification #, etc.). I don't think they want to upcharge every card per se, but I do think the "sneaking" a card by will be impossible as the computer will flag any card that is a candidate and likely require a human review for sign off in the QA process now.

Until PSA stops churning out 1.3M - 1.4M cards / month, which BTW I would have bet the house would not be the case in 2023 let alone half-way through 2024, I really don't think they care if they increase the upcharge frequency. We all cry and moan but ultimately the vast majority accept it since the card will sell for more down the line in a PSA slab. Until the volume drops, Collector's will continue to squeeze every dollar out of the system and ride the wave.