Let’s see one of your INVESTMENT Wax Boxes - I’ll start....

[Bcr]

Originally Posted by corockies

What's the general consensus on the CT scanning debacle? Is unopened wax (especially high end) done for? How can you ever defend trying to sell unopened product as never been searched? It's a bad situation all around as far as I'm concerned. I've personally mostly been a singles buyer my collecting career, but I do break product occasionally. This has further chased me away from ever wanting to own / open any sealed product.

I'm still in the boat of most product likely hasn't been scanned, however, Ct scanning is going to be cheaper and more accessible in the future so I have no interest in any sealed wax. I would be hesitant to put big money in any wax at this point.

FYI you're going to get some biased answers in this thread and I own zero wax. I jumped ship.

[fishepa]

Originally Posted by Bcr

I'm still in the boat of most product likely hasn't been scanned, however, Ct scanning is going to be cheaper and more accessible in the future so I have no interest in any sealed wax. I would be hesitant to put big money in any wax at this point.

FYI you're going to get some biased answers in this thread and I own zero wax. I jumped ship.

Agree with your points. I will never buy another unopened box for fear of it being scanned somewhere down the line. A shame, but hey here we are.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by fishepa

Agree with your points. I will never buy another unopened box for fear of it being scanned somewhere down the line. A shame, but hey here we are.

I think ( but not sure ) that scanning can detect certain foil / materials used on inserts/ hits, but can’t let you know what every and each card is in a box if made of cardboard / chrome

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by jmsodpc

2005 fb

Very nice !!

[JUNKWAX]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

I think ( but not sure ) that scanning can detect certain foil / materials used on inserts/ hits, but can’t let you know what every and each card is in a box if made of cardboard / chrome

Correct. It pretty much will highlight something that is "different" in the pack/box. If all the card are the same but different players it wont show you much at all. If all the cards are foil cards, once again it wont show you much at all. However if there is a foil card sandwiched in between nothing but cardboard cards then it will reveal that. If there are on card autos in the pack it aint going to show you enough detail to know what the auto is.

The images from a CT scan are not real clear thats why doctors count on a Radiologist to interpret what they see in the images. If these images were as clear as the card community thinks they are then doctors would just read the images themselves.

What I am saying is the scans leave alot to interpretation. Its not as simple as reading the words in a book.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by JUNKWAX

Correct. It pretty much will highlight something that is "different" in the pack/box. If all the card are the same but different players it wont show you much at all. If all the cards are foil cards, once again it wont show you much at all. However if there is a foil card sandwiched in between nothing but cardboard cards then it will reveal that. If there are on card autos in the pack it aint going to show you enough detail to know what the auto is.

The images from a CT scan are not real clear thats why doctors count on a Radiologist to interpret what they see in the images. If these images were as clear as the card community thinks they are then doctors would just read the images themselves.

What I am saying is the scans leave alot to interpretation. Its not as simple as reading the words in a book.

Thanks for your input and clarification. Scanning won’t deter Me from buying / collecting Wax - if it becomes a problem in the Hobby, maybe Topps can come out with a special shrink wrap that’s scan proof?

[Jed Clampett]

Still moving WAX quite easily
Hi end and cheaper stuff. Some of the sales have included 2009 Bowman draft case ( moved in early April) and 1213 immaculate basketball basketball 6 box case (sold at natty ) At this point, I would venture to guess very few cases have been scanned, but obviously it’s a concern moving on.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Jed Clampett

Still moving WAX quite easily
Hi end and cheaper stuff. Some of the sales have included 2009 Bowman draft case ( moved in early April) and 1213 immaculate basketball basketball 6 box case (sold at natty ) At this point, I would venture to guess very few cases have been scanned, but obviously it’s a concern moving on.

did Trought buy it?

[jmsodpc]

2009 Bowman draft case?!

Woah. What great foresight to have
Obtained that.

[corockies]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

I think ( but not sure ) that scanning can detect certain foil / materials used on inserts/ hits, but can’t let you know what every and each card is in a box if made of cardboard / chrome

Depends on the quality of the CT machine taking the photo(s). Newer technology is always updating the method, as it heavily relies on taking multiple photos of an image multiple times at multiple depths (fractions of millimeters in accuracy). This can lead one to believe that with the best technology any box can be scanned down to being able to make out every single individual card in any given box. If you can get photo(s) to narrow down where the actual hits are, then take closer photos it's fairly easy to determine each and every card in any given unopened box. It's not a good situation at all.

As for image comparison, using a radiologist / doctor as a means of interpretation is a poor talking point. Medical uses CT technology to determine human body anomolies like tumors. Card scanning offers images of items that have easily distinguishable features on them from how every player is shown on any given card. It wouldn't take a perfect image to see if a certain card was X player given how they are pictured on the card in the set. It should be fairly easy to compare images to base versions of said cards to determine exactly what any card truly is. You could probably even be able to make out exact serial #s per card with the small indentations most leave.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by corockies

Depends on the quality of the CT machine taking the photo(s). Newer technology is always updating the method, as it heavily relies on taking multiple photos of an image multiple times at multiple depths (fractions of millimeters in accuracy). This can lead one to believe that with the best technology any box can be scanned down to being able to make out every single individual card in any given box. If you can get photo(s) to narrow down where the actual hits are, then take closer photos it's fairly easy to determine each and every card in any given unopened box. It's not a good situation at all.

As for image comparison, using a radiologist / doctor as a means of interpretation is a poor talking point. Medical uses CT technology to determine human body anomolies like tumors. Card scanning offers images of items that have easily distinguishable features on them from how every player is shown on any given card. It wouldn't take a perfect image to see if a certain card was X player given how they are pictured on the card in the set. It should be fairly easy to compare images to base versions of said cards to determine exactly what any card truly is. You could probably even be able to make out exact serial #s per card with the small indentations most leave.

Well isn’t that lovely ….

[buddycunningham]

Originally Posted by corockies

Depends on the quality of the CT machine taking the photo(s). Newer technology is always updating the method, as it heavily relies on taking multiple photos of an image multiple times at multiple depths (fractions of millimeters in accuracy). This can lead one to believe that with the best technology any box can be scanned down to being able to make out every single individual card in any given box. If you can get photo(s) to narrow down where the actual hits are, then take closer photos it's fairly easy to determine each and every card in any given unopened box. It's not a good situation at all.

As for image comparison, using a radiologist / doctor as a means of interpretation is a poor talking point. Medical uses CT technology to determine human body anomolies like tumors. Card scanning offers images of items that have easily distinguishable features on them from how every player is shown on any given card. It wouldn't take a perfect image to see if a certain card was X player given how they are pictured on the card in the set. It should be fairly easy to compare images to base versions of said cards to determine exactly what any card truly is. You could probably even be able to make out exact serial #s per card with the small indentations most leave.

I have 15 years experience CT scanning in the medical sector. Even with the most state of the art scanner Would I be worried about buying a box of prizm? No way. You couldn't see images on the cards. Would I buy flawless or NT? No way. You could easily see tags/logomans.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[buddycunningham]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Thanks for your input and clarification. Scanning won’t deter Me from buying / collecting Wax - if it becomes a problem in the Hobby, maybe Topps can come out with a special shrink wrap that’s scan proof?

Pretty sure this isn't feasible. It would add way too much mass to the box to effectively "seal" it from scanning, think lead lined box. The only way around it would be by adding redemptions for all major hits that could be seen by scans. Redemptions as we know are b.s. when it comes to cards though with their expiration dates.

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[corockies]

Originally Posted by buddycunningham

I have 15 years experience CT scanning in the medical sector. Even with the most state of the art scanner Would I be worried about buying a box of prizm? No way. You couldn't see images on the cards. Would I buy flawless or NT? No way. You could easily see tags/logomans.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

The image only has to provide just enough comparison value to any cards base counterpart to be able to Sherlock Holmes what it truly is. As long as you have something to compare any image to, you'll never need a perfect image, only one with enough distinguishing features.

Look at all the work done finding trimmed graded cards. It's relatively the same thing comparing a CT image to base card images to figure out what card it actually might be.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by corockies

The image only has to provide just enough comparison value to any cards base counterpart to be able to Sherlock Holmes what it truly is. As long as you have something to compare any image to, you'll never need a perfect image, only one with enough distinguishing features.

Look at all the work done finding trimmed graded cards. It's relatively the same thing comparing a CT image to base card images to figure out what card it actually might be.

What if I have a box of 2011 Topps Update? ( which I do ) Could a scan tell me if there’s a Trout US175 in it ?

[corockies]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

What if I have a box of 2011 Topps Update? ( which I do ) Could a scan tell me if there’s a Trout US175 in it ?

I don't think it would be too hard - Trout's Update card has the topps logo upper right side and the majority of the right side of the image is only his bat - that's all you'd have to look for in a scan to figure out the image. I'd imagine the best images for 2011 Topps would be the lower section of cards for team logo and player name.

I'd worry more about re-sale value for any sealed wax once more people find out about this - how do you even know what you currently own hasn't been previously scanned? You'd like to think not and maintain a reputation of being honest, but there's no way to truly prove that anything unopened from here going forward hasn't been scanned. It's a terrible situation.

[buddycunningham]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

What if I have a box of 2011 Topps Update? ( which I do ) Could a scan tell me if there’s a Trout US175 in it ?

The foil and embossing may make it possible. It would be very hard to. You would have to use a process called maximum image projection or MIP to give you the best chance.

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[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by corockies

I don't think it would be too hard - Trout's Update card has the topps logo upper right side and the majority of the right side of the image is only his bat - that's all you'd have to look for in a scan to figure out the image. I'd imagine the best images for 2011 Topps would be the lower section of cards for team logo and player name.

I'd worry more about re-sale value for any sealed wax once more people find out about this - how do you even know what you currently own hasn't been previously scanned? You'd like to think not and maintain a reputation of being honest, but there's no way to truly prove that anything unopened from here going forward hasn't been scanned. It's a terrible situation.

Kinda’ defeats the whole purpose of the mystery that gives Wax its magic

[buddycunningham]

You wouldn't be able to see the print dot matrix, aka his bat. Could possibly see the embossed foil name.

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[lemmer]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Kinda’ defeats the whole purpose of the mystery that gives Wax its magic

guess I'll have to open all of the boxes in my collection. bummer...?

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by lemmer

guess I'll have to open all of the boxes in my collection. bummer...?

Scan them first - that way you can open just the winners

[jrubbo23]

some random hobby boxes i have:

[jrubbo23]

Some of these are obscure and I can't find current values for. Like the NT stuff.

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by jrubbo23

Some of these are obscure and I can't find current values for. Like the NT stuff.

Love the 2001 classics football and the 2005 topps chrome football! (my last box needed to complete my topps chrome FB run)

Thanks for sharing!!

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by jrubbo23

some random hobby boxes i have:

Very nice! Thanks for posting ~ if you have more, let’s see ‘em!