What’s going on with TAG?

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Or look the same, or look slightly worse, look slightly better... What is your point?

My point is that it is very unlikely that a surface flaw deemed as insignificant would be readily visible to a human grader.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

My point is that it is very unlikely that a surface flaw deemed as insignificant would be readily visible to a human grader.

How do you know this? What proof do you have of this? You want proof for all my statements, but can you prove this?

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

How do you know this? What proof do you have of this? You want proof for all my statements, but can you prove this?

Don't need, you are the one who proposed the unfounded hypothetical that a surface flaw deemed insignificant by TAG could look "absolutely horrific" to a human grader ie, unfounded claim.

Not sure how you would prove this given the small percentage of PSA cards with grader notes, but good luck trying.

[towerymt]

TAG has a sad thread.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by towerymt

TAG has a sad thread.

To keep the lights on they need to slab a start up TCG and make their own art cards. It also shows how much people care about transparency in grading. Almost every grading company that offered transparent grading has gone out of business or is doing horrific financially.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

To keep the lights on they need to slab a start up TCG and make their own art cards. It also shows how much people care about transparency in grading. Almost every grading company that offered transparent grading has gone out of business or is doing horrific financially.

I've been banging this drum for a while.

They don't care about transparency.

They want 10s.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

To keep the lights on they need to slab a start up TCG and make their own art cards. It also shows how much people care about transparency in grading. Almost every grading company that offered transparent grading has gone out of business or is doing horrific financially.

You mean like PSA with grader notes?

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

You mean like PSA with grader notes?

You mean the notes that you can't share with anyone and only on high end cards? It is just made for the submitter so they know if they can crack and resubmit again, or maybe even use some Kurt's Card Juice to fix any issues.

PSA is not gaining any submissions because of their notes. People don't care. They want a high grade on a card if it deserves it or not. People that buy high graded PSA cards, don't care about the card in the slab for the most part. They buy to flex or compete on the registry. PSA can give a card that should be an 8 a Gem Mint grade and the submitter will be happy paying upcharges and the buyer gets their PSA 10 slab.

[JWBlue]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

I think you are in a fantasy land where card companies can tell the difference between a 9 and 10. Grading is for me, because I can sell cards to people for ridiculous amounts because people think grading companies are consistent for Gem Mint grades. I will sell my Gem Mint cards for 10 times the cost, buy more raw cards, and play the grading roulette game to fund cards that actually have value outside of a slab.

Below is a TAG supporter that made a video of them missing tons of surface flaws. So yes, there is evidence of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oKRjtk-7Lg&t=0s

FWIW he subbed the card to SGC and it graded a 10.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

FWIW he subbed the card to SGC and it graded a 10.

Not worth much to change my opinion. The subjectivity of grading between a 9 and 10 for every grading company doesn't give me any confidence to ever buy a Gem Mint card or trust that the card inside the slab is graded accurately. If companies could grade accurately, then crack and resubmit wouldn't exist. TAG has flagged cards they previously graded and gave the same exact score to, but there is no evidence that their system would grade the same exact card the same if it was graded again. A 10 point swing in their grading is all it takes for a card to become a 9 or 10.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

FWIW he subbed the card to SGC and it graded a 10.

He resubmitted the card to TAG and "removed" the scratches, ie, he alters cards. There were also other new flaws introduced to the card prior to the resubmission that he didn't disclose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uev0Z0uBahs&t=120s

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Not worth much to change my opinion. The subjectivity of grading between a 9 and 10 for every grading company doesn't give me any confidence to ever buy a Gem Mint card or trust that the card inside the slab is graded accurately. If companies could grade accurately, then crack and resubmit wouldn't exist. TAG has flagged cards they previously graded and gave the same exact score to, but there is no evidence that their system would grade the same exact card the same if it was graded again. A 10 point swing in their grading is all it takes for a card to become a 9 or 10.

Yeah because they identified the card as a resubmit based on the flaws....There is no evidence for that reason.

[JWBlue]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

He resubmitted the card to TAG and "removed" the scratches, ie, he alters cards. There were also other new flaws introduced to the card prior to the resubmission that he didn't disclose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uev0Z0uBahs&t=120s

Guy seemed like he was honest. LAME.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

Guy seemed like he was honest. LAME.

He is partially honest, I think. He openly discussed "removing" the surface flaws identified by TAG. Based on user comments, he cleans cards, aka, Kurt's Kard care.

TAG returned the card with a lower grade. There was a new scratch on the card that caused the lower grade and was clearly visible in the DING report. The guy who made the blog (Frosty Feet cards) didn't mention this in his video.

I never thought I would say this, but thanks to DiscomanDan for providing the initial video from Frosty Fleet.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

FWIW he subbed the card to SGC and it graded a 10.

Was this after the resubmit to TAG, do you have a link, would love to see it if so.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

Guy seemed like he was honest. LAME.

This is the new hobby. There are enough people that now think this is ok and no grading company can consistently detect most alterations. If you buy slabs, you need to expect that your card was altered in some way. This is why I prefer to grade all my own cards. Do I buy raw cards that have been altered? I absolutely have and caught a few before I submitted. However, I am confident that my graded PC is much less altered than most collections.

[JWBlue]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

This is the new hobby. There are enough people that now think this is ok and no grading company can consistently detect most alterations. If you buy slabs, you need to expect that your card was altered in some way. This is why I prefer to grade all my own cards. Do I buy raw cards that have been altered? I absolutely have and caught a few before I submitted. However, I am confident that my graded PC is much less altered than most collections.

How is it possible to determine if a raw card has been altered? Why would someone alter a raw card?

Asking. Not questioning.

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Was this after the resubmit to TAG, do you have a link, would love to see it if so.

No link. He said in a comment response.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

How is it possible to determine if a raw card has been altered? Why would someone alter a raw card?

Asking. Not questioning.

Anything that has value based on condition from an image could have alterations. I would say about less than 1% of the raw cards I have purchased were altered with the intention of making condition seem better. That number would be a lot higher if I was just buying cards without looking for certain signs of trimming. If you ever see a beautiful 1971 Topps Baseball card with no whitening on the edges or corners, there is a very high probability that someone got a black sharpie on the card.

For vintage cards it is pretty easy to tell if they were altered if someone trimmed a card that wasn't good at it, if color was added, or if the card was soaked and bleached. I have had a few ultra modern cards sold to me with a non-factory residue on the card. Used a clean microfiber towel and the person that used the polish didn't get all of it off.

[ScattMan]

That's crazy a grading company hold a town hall meeting cause of someone name frosty feet.

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

Guy seemed like he was honest. LAME.

I have seen some other videos. He has a full Kurt's Card Care type service from what I can gather. The reasoning is if PSA can catch it, than it is fine.

[pumpkinescobar]

Last week TAG graded 4,404 cards.

[pumpkinescobar]

Last week TAG graded 11,521 cards.

[Scottish Punk]

6700 football. I wonder what the story is with this big spike. Are we going to see a bunch of those retail packs with one TAG graded card instead of a BCCG?

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

6700 football. I wonder what the story is with this big spike. Are we going to see a bunch of those retail packs with one TAG graded card instead of a BCCG?

Looks like it is just a bunch of unlicensed cards from Onyx and Wild Card. The Wild Card seems to be for WhatNot. Less and less licensed cards are going into TAG slabs, which shows you how much the hobby cares about transparency. It seems like no one is grading licensed sports cards with TAG slabs right now...

https://my.taggrading.com/pop-report/Football/2024

[Scottish Punk]

That makes sense. You figured it had to be a special promotion thing from a company like that. They are surviving on these monthly deals. They are getting the 8k Pokémon a week anymore. I bet CGC is stealing some of those when they lowered prices. CGC prices are going back up a bit, we shall see if that causes any of those special deals go back to TAG.