What’s going on with TAG?

[inaka]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

This art card thing is very, very strange.

I agree. Take this card for example:



Even though Frankenstein is public domain, the unique traits to the monster are not. Frankenstein's monster having green skin etc. is something Universal Studios could sue them for since they own the copyright to that likeness. Clear violation. Not to mention the name/likeness of "Freddie" from Freddie Freeman clearly being the reference, and the use of the Dodgers script on the front of the jersey, etc.

The only way you'd get around the copyright violation is to show a history of jokes/gags (as if you're a comedian) and these would have to fall under parody law gag products, but there's no basis for that, and you can get sued anyway.

What's even more weird to me is to call these "art cards" with no artist.
It's clearly AI generated art with some unknown graphics person quickly photoshopping out the MLB logos AI generated to rush it to market during the World Series.

If a company is violating copyright laws and creating unlicensed cards themselves, and that very same company is in charge of verifying/grading the legitimacy and authenticity of the same products they are grading, it seems like a really really dumb idea and terrible for your brand. And for what? A few sales online. Strange.

It's a bad look all around.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

I appreciate the openness. I also hope you appreciate the skepticism. Your pop reports are at times, the only “interest” in TAG on the forum for weeks on end. That signifies to me, at least, a lack of genuine interest, at least with the BO demographic.

So I guess what becomes the point of posting the numbers over and over where there is little interest?

Let it go dude. How many times does he have to tell you?

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by pumpkinescobar

I can absolutely appreciate skepticism, especially in this hobby full of "influencers" and people with their own agendas.

I've been posting the numbers so folks can follow TAG's progress (or lack thereof). Even though I don't grade anymore, I still appreciate seeing how they've been performing as a company. If Gem Rate posted TAG's numbers, I would feel like my posting was redundant, but they don't. Sometimes you'll see the TAG numbers in Neo's YouTube videos along with Arena Club and other smaller graders and I find that helpful.

If people aren't interested, I don't need to post them. I'm not surprised that there's less interest here on the BO Forums just given that TAG has mostly shifted its focus to Pokemon and TCG and away from sports.

It's a TAG thread, if it bothers the haters, even more reason to keep posting.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by pumpkinescobar

I don't know much about the mystery pack sellers. I hate the idea of those out of principle, but couldn't say how much of TAG's volume comes from those versus collectors. Are you thinking it's the same people submitting for mystery packs or that there's multiple groups? I would think if it was all mystery pack submitters then the volume of cards graded would have seen a big dip after the initial bolus of cards were submitted and graded.

It is very significant. Look at the pop reports for 2024/25 of all of the sports and you will see that the majority are graded for hobby boxes, whatnot, and art cards. Remember that one huge "other" grading spike? It turned out to be a brand new TCG that hired TAG to grade their cards to sell. These spikes are very prevalent and even occur in sports grading if you look into the data.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Let it go dude. How many times does he have to tell you?

Honestly people like you are the reason this forum is dying.

[discodanman45]

Here is a quick dive into a few sports from 2024-25 from TAG Pop reports. Other cards like wrestling, multi-sports, and Other TCG are the same way. TAG is getting more business from art cards and non-licensed cards than from regular submissions.

Baseball 2024
Wild Card - WhatNot Product 185
Onyx Hobby - All Florida 152
TAG World Scaries 1200
Total 1537
Total POP 5523
Percentage 27.8%

Basketball 2024 and 2025
Canvas Stephen Curry - 2024 1048
Onyx Hobby - All Florida 605
Wild Card WhatNot 101
Canvas Stephen Curry - 2025 445
Total 2199
Total POP 2509
Percentage 87.6%

Football - 2024
Onyx Hobby - All Florida 3471
Wild Card WhatNot 2109
Total 5580
Total POP 6455
Percentage 86.4%

MMA - 2024
Wild Card - WhatNot 379
Meteor x Merch Labs 23
Total 402
Total POP 580
Percentage 69.3%

Around 87% of all Football and Basketball Cards slabbed for 2024 by TAG were either for WhatNot breaks, Onyx products, or Art Cards.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Honestly people like you are the reason this forum is dying.

Yeah, because you and the rest of the peanut gallery are a bastion of positive energy. lol.

[pumpkinescobar]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Here is a quick dive into a few sports from 2024-25 from TAG Pop reports. Other cards like wrestling, multi-sports, and Other TCG are the same way. TAG is getting more business from art cards and non-licensed cards than from regular submissions.

Baseball 2024
Wild Card - WhatNot Product 185
Onyx Hobby - All Florida 152
TAG World Scaries 1200
Total 1537
Total POP 5523
Percentage 27.8%

Basketball 2024 and 2025
Canvas Stephen Curry - 2024 1048
Onyx Hobby - All Florida 605
Wild Card WhatNot 101
Canvas Stephen Curry - 2025 445
Total 2199
Total POP 2509
Percentage 87.6%

Football - 2024
Onyx Hobby - All Florida 3471
Wild Card WhatNot 2109
Total 5580
Total POP 6455
Percentage 86.4%

MMA - 2024
Wild Card - WhatNot 379
Meteor x Merch Labs 23
Total 402
Total POP 580
Percentage 69.3%

Around 87% of all Football and Basketball Cards slabbed for 2024 by TAG were either for WhatNot breaks, Onyx products, or Art Cards.

Were you looking at full year 2024 + 2025 year to date? If so, your totals for each sport are off.



Baseball
1/1/2024 Start: 20,212
2/17/2025 End: 39,680
Total Baseball Cards Graded: 19,468
Total "Non Collector" Graded: 1,537
Percentage of "Non-Collector": 7.9%

Basketball:
1/1/2024 Start: 6,249
2/17/2025 End: 16,772
Total Basketball Cards Graded: 10,523
Total "Non Collector" Graded: 2,199
Percentage of "Non-Collector": 20.9%

Football:
1/1/2024 Start: 10,594
2/17/2025 End: 27,842
Total Football Cards Graded:17,248
Total "Non Collector" Graded: 5,580
Percentage of "Non-Collector": 32.4%

MMA:
1/1/2024 Start: 608
2/17/2025 End: 1,958
Total MMA Cards Graded: 1,350
Total "Non Collector" Graded: 402
Percentage of "Non-Collector": 29.8%

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by pumpkinescobar

Were you looking at full year 2024 + 2025 year to date? If so, your totals for each sport are off.

I was looking at only cards for the 2024 year, not graded in 2024/25. You can't use my data for what you just did. There are also cards in the POP report for things like Wild Card WhatNot for 2023. In the year 2023, Wild Card WhatNot had almost 1700 cards alone in Football.

Most of these cards were graded in the last 6 months as well. Recently TAG's business is being dominated by a few select companies.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

I was looking at only cards for the 2024 year, not graded in 2024/25. You can't use my data for what you just did. There are also cards in the POP report for things like Wild Card WhatNot for 2023. In the year 2023, Wild Card WhatNot had almost 1700 cards alone in Football.

Most of these cards were graded in the last 6 months as well. Recently TAG's business is being dominated by a few select companies.

Yeah Pokemon....

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

I was looking at only cards for the 2024 year, not graded in 2024/25. You can't use my data for what you just did. There are also cards in the POP report for things like Wild Card WhatNot for 2023. In the year 2023, Wild Card WhatNot had almost 1700 cards alone in Football.

Most of these cards were graded in the last 6 months as well. Recently TAG's business is being dominated by a few select companies.

You are speaking the truth, but TAG promoters just will not accept the fact TAG is a very fringe company and they are a non-player in the larger scheme of things. Even with all the CGC issues they still grade 10’s of thousands more cards than TAG.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by The_Reverend

You are speaking the truth, but TAG promoters just will not accept the fact TAG is a very fringe company and they are a non-player in the larger scheme of things. Even with all the CGC issues they still grade 10’s of thousands more cards than TAG.

Their Reddit sub boasts a member total of around 930.

This is getting towards the level of complete fraud.

[rfgilles]

https://www.reddit.com/r/taggrading/

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Their Reddit sub boasts a member total of around 930.

This is getting towards the level of complete fraud.

You realize the TAG discord group has 3,300 members, right?

[varjakpaul]

Originally Posted by inaka

I agree. Take this card for example:



Even though Frankenstein is public domain, the unique traits to the monster are not. Frankenstein's monster having green skin etc. is something Universal Studios could sue them for since they own the copyright to that likeness. Clear violation. Not to mention the name/likeness of "Freddie" from Freddie Freeman clearly being the reference, and the use of the Dodgers script on the front of the jersey, etc.

The only way you'd get around the copyright violation is to show a history of jokes/gags (as if you're a comedian) and these would have to fall under parody law gag products, but there's no basis for that, and you can get sued anyway.

What's even more weird to me is to call these "art cards" with no artist.
It's clearly AI generated art with some unknown graphics person quickly photoshopping out the MLB logos AI generated to rush it to market during the World Series.

If a company is violating copyright laws and creating unlicensed cards themselves, and that very same company is in charge of verifying/grading the legitimacy and authenticity of the same products they are grading, it seems like a really really dumb idea and terrible for your brand. And for what? A few sales online. Strange.

It's a bad look all around.

Left-handed monster already finishing their swing standing inexplicably with both feet facing the pitcher, looking like they hit the ball directly into the ground

[703dispensary]

Originally Posted by notfast

Grading with tag is a bad decision.

How come? (sorry - I'll go read the TAG thread )

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

You realize the TAG discord group has 3,300 members, right?

That’s literally peanuts.

[discodanman45]

TAG has 3300 people on discord and most likely over half of TAG's submissions are being done by Whatnot, companies promoting their own product, mystery boxes, and AI art cards. That means everyone on discord is probably submitting 1 card every two months to TAG on average.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Their Reddit sub boasts a member total of around 930.

This is getting towards the level of complete fraud.

Up to 1.1 K.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

TAG has 3300 people on discord and most likely over half of TAG's submissions are being done by Whatnot, companies promoting their own product, mystery boxes, and AI art cards. That means everyone on discord is probably submitting 1 card every two months to TAG on average.

The TAG Discord is interesting. There are some generally good, excited and knowledgeable submitters on there.

It’s also clearly a staging ground. The BST section is dead and there are posts chiding people for “selling too low” and needing “to price at PSA comps.”

It’s an odd mix for sure, but you definitely don’t come away from the Discord feeling like TAG is making big moves in the grading space.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

The TAG Discord is interesting. There are some generally good, excited and knowledgeable submitters on there.

It’s also clearly a staging ground. The BST section is dead and there are posts chiding people for “selling too low” and needing “to price at PSA comps.”

It’s an odd mix for sure, but you definitely don’t come away from the Discord feeling like TAG is making big moves in the grading space.

The majority of people there are passionate collectors. There are a few lunatics that are proud to show they are posting their TAG 10's on eBay for 5 times a PSA 10, using language like "diamond hands." My daughter started to collect Pokémon cards and brought up grading with me. I have to research these cards now.

TAG has stalled on making any advancements in their grading. They stopped at 1989 and haven't added any thicker or different stock cards to their library. They seem to be focusing on non-licensed cards right now and are the Leaf of grading. It seems like they are having issues detecting flaws on standard Pokémon cards, so anything else may be impossible to grade with computer vision and their current patents. I have no evidence of this at all, but I think there is much more human involvement in the grading process with TAG than people realize.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

The majority of people there are passionate collectors. There are a few lunatics that are proud to show they are posting their TAG 10's on eBay for 5 times a PSA 10, using language like "diamond hands." My daughter started to collect Pokémon cards and brought up grading with me. I have to research these cards now.

TAG has stalled on making any advancements in their grading. They stopped at 1989 and haven't added any thicker or different stock cards to their library. They seem to be focusing on non-licensed cards right now and are the Leaf of grading. It seems like they are having issues detecting flaws on standard Pokémon cards, so anything else may be impossible to grade with computer vision and their current patents. I have no evidence of this at all, but I think there is much more human involvement in the grading process with TAG than people realize.

That's never stopped you before.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

That's never stopped you before.

And you blindly ignore any issues with TAG and pretend they are a flawless grading company.

[salsdali]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

And you blindly ignore any issues with TAG and pretend they are a flawless grading company.

Percentage wise, does TAG really have more problems than PSA?

TAG has never issued a 10 grade for a card that looks like a 5 like PSA has done.

PSA is corrupt and incompetent. The literal first card PSA graded was corrupt and it continued with Goldin and hasn't stopped because of the conflict of interest Nat Turner has as being a huge collector who grades with his own company.

I don't see any evidence for this at TAG, onoz, they missed a mm surface flaw that no human eye can see anyway.

[salsdali]

and all this Reddit and discord stuff, so what?

can someone illuminate me how any of that affects a grade a computer algorithm gives a card?

That's the whole point, that NO amount of human interaction, shilling, etc from the outside can alter the grade, unlike PSA and the constant regrading (crack and resubmit).