Cal Raleigh

[spuds1961]

Originally Posted by PeteD

Just wondering aloud if Cal was a Yankee, and Judge a M, would it be the same result?
I like and collect both, but feel sad for Cal who might never get the chance again.

I think location plays a part in it and the time difference in Seattles games also hurts him as a lot of the country doesn’t get to see him. I am a Yankee fan and would’ve been fine if Raleigh won but I think the .247 batting average hurt more than the 60 home runs and playing catcher helped. I think if he would’ve gotten to within 50 points of Judges batting average at .281 he might have pulled it off.

[ThoseBackPages]

if Judge was on the M's they might have won.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by spuds1961

I think location plays a part in it and the time difference in Seattles games also hurts him as a lot of the country doesn’t get to see him. I am a Yankee fan and would’ve been fine if Raleigh won but I think the .247 batting average hurt more than the 60 home runs and playing catcher helped. I think if he would’ve gotten to within 50 points of Judges batting average at .281 he might have pulled it off.

Agreed, thought it was still close, give him a higher BA and he likely wins it by the same margin.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

A Catcher hits 60 HRs, he should win the MVP. A Catcher hits 60 HRs for a 1st place team, he should win MVP. Sometimes I think the BBWAA overthinks these awards. Is Judge winning the MVP egregious? No. This isn't 1987 or 1984. But this is one season where the MVP was obvious and will go down in history right next to 1998.

Didn't Big Mac lose the '98 MVP race because the Cardinals were not a playoff team and the Cubs were? The voters seemed to heavily factor in team success in the MVP voting back then: excluding the cancelled '94 season, 16 of the 18 MLB MVPs in the '90s played on playoff teams.

[awz50]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

if Judge was on the M's they might have won.

Put judge on most teams and they might have won

[marl1220]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

A Catcher hits 60 HRs, he should win the MVP. A Catcher hits 60 HRs for a 1st place team, he should win MVP. Sometimes I think the BBWAA overthinks these awards. Is Judge winning the MVP egregious? No. This isn't 1987 or 1984. But this is one season where the MVP was obvious and will go down in history right next to 1998.

I'm not bashing Cal. He had a great year. This is in response to the posters comment.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by spuds1961

I think location plays a part in it and the time difference in Seattles games also hurts him as a lot of the country doesn’t get to see him. I am a Yankee fan and would’ve been fine if Raleigh won but I think the .247 batting average hurt more than the 60 home runs and playing catcher helped. I think if he would’ve gotten to within 50 points of Judges batting average at .281 he might have pulled it off.

And yet in the end it was the 4 writers from Texas with teams in Cal's own division that ultimately gave the edge to Judge.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by skipscards

a catcher hits 60 hrs, he should win the mvp. A catcher hits 60 hrs for a 1st place team, he should win mvp. Sometimes i think the bbwaa overthinks these awards. Is judge winning the mvp egregious? No. This isn't 1987 or 1984. But this is one season where the mvp was obvious and will go down in history right next to 1998.

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[Cracktoast]

it's simple come back and repeat or best what you did this year and you will win next year. Nobody handing out MVPs to one year wonders.

And for those who keep bringing up the fact he's a catcher, I wasn't aware position was a consideration for being a MVP. Catchers generally don't play but 6 games a week on avg and usually take Sunday's off unless it's a night game, A lot of them also don't play a day game after a night game and they very rarely catch both games of a double header. I always hear about catchers having more responsibilities because they call games every day blah blah blah and while it's true to an extent we all know the pitcher ultimately decides what pitch he wants to throw not the catcher.

[here2havefun]

Originally Posted by Cracktoast

it's simple come back and repeat or best what you did this year and you will win next year. Nobody handing out MVPs to one year wonders.

And for those who keep bringing up the fact he's a catcher, I wasn't aware position was a consideration for being a MVP. Catchers generally don't play but 6 games a week on avg and usually take Sunday's off unless it's a night game, A lot of them also don't play a day game after a night game and they very rarely catch both games of a double header. I always hear about catchers having more responsibilities because they call games every day blah blah blah and while it's true to an extent we all know the pitcher ultimately decides what pitch he wants to throw not the catcher.

lol what? A 1st baseman and a catcher put up the same offensive numbers, guess who is going to be more valuable?

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by Cracktoast

it's simple come back and repeat or best what you did this year and you will win next year. Nobody handing out MVPs to one year wonders.

And for those who keep bringing up the fact he's a catcher, I wasn't aware position was a consideration for being a MVP. Catchers generally don't play but 6 games a week on avg and usually take Sunday's off unless it's a night game, A lot of them also don't play a day game after a night game and they very rarely catch both games of a double header. I always hear about catchers having more responsibilities because they call games every day blah blah blah and while it's true to an extent we all know the pitcher ultimately decides what pitch he wants to throw not the catcher.

This is one of the dumbest posts I’ve ever read on here.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

A Catcher hits 60 HRs, he should win the MVP. A Catcher hits 60 HRs for a 1st place team, he should win MVP. Sometimes I think the BBWAA overthinks these awards. Is Judge winning the MVP egregious? No. This isn't 1987 or 1984. But this is one season where the MVP was obvious and will go down in history right next to 1998.

He also set the single season record for strikeouts as a catcher which should have easily been a huge negative for MVP voting.

[vwnut13]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Congrats to Cal for being voted the AL outstanding player of the year by his peers!

Congrats to Schwarber for being voted the NL outstanding player of the year by his peers!

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by Cracktoast

, I wasn't aware position was a consideration for being a MVP.

...........woof

This is one of the worst takes/"opinions" this forum may have ever seen. Do you actually watch Baseball? Even the staunchest Aaron Judge fan is going to tell you position is 1000000000% a consideration in MVP voting. A SS and a 1B put up the same numbers, which one is more valuable? You actually think it'd be the same value?

[Cracktoast]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

...........woof

This is one of the worst takes/"opinions" this forum may have ever seen. Do you actually watch Baseball? Even the staunchest Aaron Judge fan is going to tell you position is 1000000000% a consideration in MVP voting. A SS and a 1B put up the same numbers, which one is more valuable? You actually think it'd be the same value?

I was more referring to Catcher being more deserving than other positions as seems to be the argument as to why Raleigh should have won.

Fact is Raleigh floundered down the stretch and Judge beat him in almost every category but HRs. All while carrying the expectations of playing in NY on his shoulders which crush most other players.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by Cracktoast

I was more referring to Catcher being more deserving than other positions as seems to be the argument as to why Raleigh should have won.

Fact is Raleigh floundered down the stretch and Judge beat him in almost every category but HRs. All while carrying the expectations of playing in NY on his shoulders which crush most other players.

Maybe that was what you meant, and if it was you articulated that extremely poorly in your previous post.

I mean, if .278/.391/.639 in the month of September is 'floundering down the stretch', then yes he did, I guess. This isn't getting any better for you.

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by Cracktoast

I was more referring to Catcher being more deserving than other positions as seems to be the argument as to why Raleigh should have won.

Fact is Raleigh floundered down the stretch and Judge beat him in almost every category but HRs. All while carrying the expectations of playing in NY on his shoulders which crush most other players.

Don’t ever double down on stupid son. And yes catcher is absolutely the hardest position.

[cnewby]

We're still here?!?!? It's over. Some of us were right, some of us were wrong....

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by cnewby

We're still here?!?!? It's over. Some of us were right, some of us were wrong....

Don't make this something it's not, Chad. Go troll elsewhere.

[cnewby]

Delicious tears are delicious!

[Cracktoast]

just a FYI here are the most MVP's by position in MLB History


1B : 37
2B : 16
3B : 19
SS : 16
OF : 77 ( RF:31, CF:22, LF:24)
C : 18
DH : 4

SP : 21
RP : 4


As for 1B getting preferential treatment/bias since 2000 there have only been 3 to win the A.L. MVP and 7 to win N.L. MVP in that 25 year span

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by Cracktoast

just a FYI here are the most MVP's by position in MLB History


1B : 37
2B : 16
3B : 19
SS : 16
OF : 77 ( RF:31, CF:22, LF:24)
C : 18
DH : 4

SP : 21
RP : 4


As for 1B getting preferential treatment/bias since 2000 there have only been 3 to win the A.L. MVP and 7 to win N.L. MVP in that 25 year span

I don't think you know what you're even arguing at this point.

[here2havefun]

Originally Posted by Cracktoast

just a FYI here are the most MVP's by position in MLB History


1B : 37
2B : 16
3B : 19
SS : 16
OF : 77 ( RF:31, CF:22, LF:24)
C : 18
DH : 4

SP : 21
RP : 4


As for 1B getting preferential treatment/bias since 2000 there have only been 3 to win the A.L. MVP and 7 to win N.L. MVP in that 25 year span

Just because the distribution of MVP's is spread (somewhat) evenly over positions, that doesn't mean that position doesn't matter when determining player value and MVP.

I'll ask again, a 1st baseman and a catcher put up similar offensive numbers. Both play league average defense. Which player is more valuable?

[Cracktoast]

Originally Posted by here2havefun

Just because the distribution of MVP's is spread (somewhat) evenly over positions, that doesn't mean that position doesn't matter when determining player value and MVP.

I'll ask again, a 1st baseman and a catcher put up similar offensive numbers. Both play league average defense. Which player is more valuable?

Depends on the situation but I'm not going to not give it to someone just because they've already won in the past just to have a fresh face win. And that seems to be the argument a lot of people are making for Raleigh.

Look at the N.L. MVP Ohtani and Schwarber had very similar seasons just like Judge and Raleigh but nobody is complaining that Schwarber lost. And you can almost emphatically say the Dodgers still would have made the playoffs without Ohtani but the Phillies without Schwarber no chance.

[duwal]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Maybe that was what you meant, and if it was you articulated that extremely poorly in your previous post.

I mean, if .278/.391/.639 in the month of September is 'floundering down the stretch', then yes he did, I guess. This isn't getting any better for you.

exactly his chances more were lost during mid-season than during the stretch. July and August BOTH having months batting under .200 doomed him