PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by signed79

If anyone has a PWCC Moser card that has been recolored in the less than $500 range please let me know as I am interested in purchasing it for testing.

So far I don't think the recoloring has been found on any cheaper cards. It would be a very interesting experiment.

And I'm sorry to hear about UFFDAH's card.

[WilsonCollector]

Guy from net54 calls about altered Cobb and is told to take a hike.

Guy with deep pockets calls about altered Musial get's an immediate refund.

[superdan49]

Corndog needs to be arrested for slandering this card. Lake Oswego PD is en route. From Net54:

"These boards are out of control in many ways, and are defacing cards for little reason and I’m sorry for this slander against a card you own."—Brent Huigens
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=269814


We are the ones defacing the cards. Maximum projection. Let that sink in.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by WilsonCollector

Guy from net54 calls about altered Cobb and is told to take a hike.

Guy with deep pockets calls about altered Musial get's an immediate refund.

I do not believe he has not been refunded yet. No preferential treatment here, I can assure you that.

[UFFDAH]

Guy with skirt on. I was not guaranteed a refund. It is going back to PWCC and then off to PSA. At least that is what I was told. I am trying for a full refund the best I can.

[WilsonCollector]

Originally Posted by UFFDAH

Guy with skirt on. I was not guaranteed a refund. It is going back to PWCC and then off to PSA. At least that is what I was told. I am trying for a full refund the best I can.

Nice name calling, I felt really bad you ended up with a bad card in your collection.

[UFFDAH]

Whatever. You were obviously insulting me and throwing your own twist which isn't true. For the past 2 weeks I have been trying to communicate with Steve PSA and Joe PSA + Brent about the crap going on in the Hobby. Numerous emails, texts, not so fun phone calls etc. I hope things change for the better for everyone who enjoys collecting. I'm trying on my end.

[CaptSpaulding]

From what I am reading and seeing, Brent and Betsy have been telling buyers consistently they see no evidence their cards have been altered when they have been confronted in an attempt to make returns for refunds. This is happening in instances even when the demand is made with a before picture of a card when it resided in a lower graded holder.

PWCC cannot be trusted and sadly I do not feel PSA, absent a lawyer being involved, will offer a satisfactory remedy to these buyers.

[morningrushnc]

"Round up the usual suspects."

[signed79]

It's interesting that they gave UFFDAH a return label but are telling everyone else, all on lower purchases, to basically take a hike.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by signed79

It's interesting that they gave UFFDAH a return label but are telling everyone else, all on lower purchases, to basically take a hike.

Not shocking to me. That anyone buys back that card from him would come as a shock. I urge him to look at those recreated submissions to see if he has others in his collection.

Actually everyone should and force the cards upon PSA and/or PWCC. Unless buyers make noise this is going away quietly. Neither PSA nor PWCC will be publishing any list of cards that have been handled by Moser.

[signed79]

I wouldn't want to send the card back to PWCC. Maybe PSA, but I wouldn't trust Brent with the evidence.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by signed79

It's interesting that they gave UFFDAH a return label but are telling everyone else, all on lower purchases, to basically take a hike.

Are they applying their own convenient definition of alteration in making these distinctions?

[Saraste]

Originally Posted by corndog

PSA Cert #28469913

1914 Cracker Jack Ray Fisher #102

Value gain of $645.97

This card was purchased by whitman111 (Gary Moser) from PWCC as a PSA-2 on September 10, 2017 for $314.03. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1540117
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-3 for $960.00 on March 11, 2018. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1619165

Yellow circles are print mark identifiers.
Red squares identify stain removal/minimized.

As always this is impressive detective work and extremely saddening at the same time.

Corndog, you may want to edit this and place the picture of the back of the PSA 2 instead of the repeat of the front. In addition, it appears that the small dot below the "N" in New York has been cleaned up.

[signed79]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Are they applying their own convenient definition of alteration in making these distinctions?

Not sure. They probably have a list of all the altered cards.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by signed79

Not sure. They probably have a list of all the altered cards.

I don't think Brent has such a list nor does one exist. That would be admitting to being directly involved with Gary as a submitter or owner of such cards which he has vehemently denied.

I do know that he knows exactly which cards Gary has consigned to him for more than a decade and it can be assumed that most, if not all, have been altered in some way. Of course we will never see that list. Nor will we see a complete list of cards Gary (or Brent on behalf of Gary) has submitted to PSA.

[signed79]

The Musial was in Heritage and the white spots on sleeve are visible in case there was any doubt.

[signed79]

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c.../a/714-81193.s

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:40927085

1909-11 T206 American Beauty Hughie Jennings PSA 4 to PSA 6.5

Sold on 9/6/2016 as a PSA 4 by PWCC to whitman111 (Gary Moser) for $521.99
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 7/8/2018 as a PSA 6.5 for $2,425.00
Value gain of $1,903.01!


The top graded example of this T206 card with this tough ad back is a fraud. This card has been chemically cleaned using a brightener, and the top two corners appear noticeably sharper in its PSA 6.5 holder than its previous incarnation as a PSA 4.

Furthermore, a crease has been pressed out of the card's back. How do we know? By reading PWCC's own descriptions. First the PSA 4: "Shows like an EX+ example with a light vertical back crease downgrading." Now the description for the PSA 6.5: "Completely void of any creasing or wrinkles to boot."

Red circles are common print marks proving the cards are one and the same. Also, thanks to the tipster who send me links to this card via e-mail.


PSA 4: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1340023
PSA 6.5: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1686677

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by LSUNatChamps

Unbelievable. Sadly, the unique story is that this is a Gary Moser doctored special and Brent likely knew that all along.

At this point, that’s not a unique story.

[Vintagecollect]

And betting investigation will find these were not consigned, but PWCCs own cards. Turnaround just too quick

[3124508 on COMC]

Below is the sub with the 52 Bowman Musial PSA 10. $150k in cards that have been sold. Lots more that have not sold.



28639388 All these are tobacco cards with no sales history. May be unlinked.
28639389
28639390
28639391
28639392
28639393
28639394
28639395
28639396
28639397
28639398
28639399
28639400
28639401
28639402
28639403
28639404
28639405
28639406
28639407
28639408
28639409
28639410
28639411
28639412
28639413
28639414
28639415
28639416
28639417
28639418
28639419
28639420
28639421
28639422
28639423
28639424
28639425
28639426
28639427
28639428
28639429
28639430
28639431
28639432
28639433
28639434
28639435 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson 4 7323.23
28639436 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson 6
28639437 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson 6 8400
28639438 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson 6
28639439 x
28639440 1951 Bowman Larry Doby 8.5 515.5
28639441 x
28639442 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle 7 23925
28639443 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle 6.5
28639444 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle 7
28639445 x
28639446 1952 Bowman Stan Musial 10 28100.03
28639447 x
28639448 1952 Topps Al Rosen 7 1009.99
28639449 1952 Topps Bob Elliott 9 1136.11
28639450 1952 Topps Merrill Combs 7
28639451 x
28639452 1952 Topps Dizzy Trout 8 1388
28639453 1952 Topps Ken Raffensberger 8 154.5
28639454 1952 Topps Bob Miller 8.5 1182.87
28639455 x
28639456 1952 Topps Myron Ginsberg 8.5 1397.54
28639457 1952 Topps Joe Garagiola 7
28639458 1952 Topps Joe Garagiola 8.5 787
28639459 1952 Topps Frank Shea 7.5
28639460 1952 Topps Willie Mays 7
28639461 1952 Topps Willard Nixon 5
28639462 1952 Topps Chet Nichols 7
28639463 1952 Topps Gil Coan 8 249.01
28639464 1952 Topps Sibby Sisti 5
28639465 1952 Topps Jim Busby 9 2025
28639466 1952 Topps George Metkovich 8 1005
28639467 1952 Topps Hal Gregg 5
28639468 1952 Topps Karl Drews 8 617
28639469 x
28639470 1952 Topps Herman Franks 8.5 926.76
28639471 1952 Topps Jake Pitler 8 710
28639472 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle 6 5213
28639473 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle 6 5111
28639474 x
28639475 1954 Topps Al Kaline 7 1355.99
28639476 1954 Topps Al Kaline 7
28639477 1954 Topps Willie Mays 7 867.99
28639478 1954 Topps Willie Mays 8 3150
28639479 1954 Topps Willie Mays 8.5 4425.75
28639480 x
28639481 1955 Topps Duke Snider 8 2820
28639482 x
28639483 1957 Topps Duke Snider 8
28639484 1957 Topps Pee Wee Reese 8.5
28639485 1957 Topps Ted Williams 7
28639486 1957 Topps Ed Matthews 8
28639487 1957 Topps Ed Matthews 9
28639488 x
28639489 x
28639490 1960 Topps Bob Clemente 7.5
28639491 1960 Topps Mickey Mantle 7
28639492 1965 Topps Mickey Mantle 9 15,099.99
28639493 x
28639494 1965 Topps Steve Carlton 9 1391
28639495 1978 Topps Eddie Murray 9
28639496 1952 Bowman Large Don Paul 9 2075
28639497 1952 Bowman Large Ollie Matson 7.5 4049
28639498 1955 Bowman Doak Walker 9 1025
28639499 1957 Topps John Unitas 5.5
28639500 1957 Topps John Unitas 6
28639501 1957 Topps John Unitas 7
28639502 1958 Topps John Unitas 7
28639503 1948 Bowman George McAfee 9 1750
28639504 x
28639505 x
28639506 1957 Topps Footbal Checklist 1-154 Twin Blony 6.5 3706.23
28639507 1961 Fleer Wilt Chamberlain 7
28639508 1957 Topps Larry Costello 7
28639509 1957 Topps Bill Russell 7.5
28639510 1957 Topps Bob Cousey 7 1332.07
28639511 1957 Topps Bill Russell 7 14877
TOTAL: 149101.56

[pspa123]

Meh, chump change.

[Saraste]

Would it surprise anyone if we come to find out Brent and Gary are somehow related?

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by Saraste

Would it surprise anyone if we come to find out Brent and Gary are somehow related?

Like, by blood or marriage? If so, yes.