PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

I find it interesting that Moser/PWCC were so brazen with the whole scheme. It's like they never realized that at some point people were going to look through auction records and connect the dots. Either they had no foresight, or they were comfortable in assuming that collectors are stupid and would never check.

The arrogant never expect to get caught.

Of course the hobby is corrupt enough they probably figure they could get away with anything.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

In the entire history of collecting anything this has happened zero times.

The most pristine examples of anything are worth more period. That will never change. Altered, cleaned, restored examples will bring far less.

Here's an idea. Let's just end grading and slab every card Authentic. Let the buyer judge the condition. That solves 90% of the fraud right there.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

I found this image today and it blew my mind. It's a before and after photo, if you can believe it.

Righty-O!!!

[MoreToppsPlease]

Altering a $22K card certainly requires a pair.

I simply can’t see just one person altering a card like that. Hard to think Moser/whomever isn’t letting others know what he’s doing out of arrogance, or just to blow off some steam.

[3124508 on COMC]

Jackson’s corners have been rounded off into a radius like we frequently see too.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Jackson’s corners have been rounded off into a radius like we frequently see too.

Yes, I forgot to point that out. This seems to be a later development in the PWCC/Moser output of trimmed cards.

I'm not sure if that is done to create a uniform look or to throw potential card detectives off the trail.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Yes, I forgot to point that out. This seems to be a later development in the PWCC/Moser output of trimmed cards.

I'm not sure if that is done to create a uniform look or to throw potential card detectives off the trail.

One wonders if it's a PSA reject.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by pspa123

One wonders if it's a PSA reject.

Either that or PSA rejected too many of their bleached cards, so they went elsewhere with those from the start.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Yes, I forgot to point that out. This seems to be a later development in the PWCC/Moser output of trimmed cards.

I'm not sure if that is done to create a uniform look or to throw potential card detectives off the trail.

When you look at the 15 signed T206 cards that were discovered to be fake, there were 3 or 4 cards where the forger added extra damage. You wonder why they decided to do that on some and not others...

[superdan49]

If I had to guess I would lean towards the 2018 NSCC SGC batch being PWCC's PSA rejects.

[3124508 on COMC]

Have you looked at the 8.5 at all?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_I9lbxlvRGk

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Have you looked at the 8.5 at all?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_I9lbxlvRGk

Have not. That needs to be looked at. I sent you and Corndog a Mantle to look at too.

[3124508 on COMC]

And a spectacular analysis here from Rich:

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...-debut-jersey/

I too thought these cards would’ve been graded long ago. In fact, many were graded long ago.

[SetBuilder]

I think Heritage's catalog should be looked at, and I might start giving it a glance. The number of ultra high-end cards on there is staggering, comparable to PWCC, but on a bigger scale. So are their realized prices. That has to be attracting the Mosers of the world to consign.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

I think Heritage's catalog should be looked at, and I might start giving it a glance. The number of ultra high-end cards on there is staggering, comparable to PWCC, but on a bigger scale. So are their realized prices. That has to be attracting the Mosers of the world to consign.

Post #1 in this thread. Don’t forget.

[superdan49]

Well, we've outed the 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson SGC 7.5 and the 1914 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson SGC 5 as altered. Mueller mentions a Ruth. What are the odds?

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Well, we've outed the 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson SGC 7.5 and the 1914 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson SGC 5 as altered. Mueller mentions a Ruth. What are the odds?

If you find that Ruth it may register on the Richter scale.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Well, we've outed the 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson SGC 7.5 and the 1914 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson SGC 5 as altered. Mueller mentions a Ruth. What are the odds?

Looking at it, I’d say very good. It’s got a PWCC-HE sticker...

[SetBuilder]

Just dug this up...

Anyone remember the fake Magie error card?



According to this article, it turns out that the Magie was purchased on eBay as a Magee by New York dealer Gerry Schwartz.

The article claims that Moser and Schwartz are associates.

An interesting set of facts to say the least...

[Aziulek]

It also explain all those low-mid grade Gretzky rookies with Superb or exceptional eye appeal. They must have been doing this for years, and years.

How about stating a GoFund or something similar and raise some cash so all the cards and info be compiled in a coffee table book similar to Heritage catalogues with nice, big pictures.
What do you guys think?
It would be a reference book for future and it would be hard cover not just on the net.

I know I’d love a copy or two

[mjohnatgt]

I would like to see some left in the slabs for the purposes of determining how long the encapsulation and the bleaching chemicals takes to either break down the card noticeably (sometimes looks like water damage after a while), or for the pressed creases and removed stains to reappear.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Well, we've outed the 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson SGC 7.5 and the 1914 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson SGC 5 as altered. Mueller mentions a Ruth. What are the odds?

[mjohnatgt]

Well, Moser's ebay account is still active, but only has 2 feedbacks left in the past month. Greg Morris has been chatting on Net54 and I've asked him to find before pictures for you guys on purchases made by Gary Moser's Whitman111 account, as well as any other scammer who has been outed this year.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=270428

[corndog]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Have not. That needs to be looked at. I sent you and Corndog a Mantle to look at too.

I found it and will begin setting it up now.

[mjohnatgt]

Do you guys realize we haven't heard a formal word from PSA or PWCC about this for 20 DAYS????
And SGC, who was trying to take advantage of the situation by pumping their crossover special, is now heavily implicated in their inability to accurately identify altered cards as well. No statement from their team either.
Have they told anyone which "law enforcement" agencies they both claim to be working with?

But yet, they all continue to grade and sell cards as if there is nothing happening to them. They have plenty of apologists for them that are continuing to prop up this false market.

I remember back when Beanie Babies were a thing. You bought them at a store for $5-7. When they were retired a week later, they would sell for $50-70. People were just acting like Frye from Futurama, saying "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!!" I knew that when the first Beanie Baby price guide showed the first down arrow, I would liquidate. Made $2,000 in profit when I was 18 because I sold at the right time. Really feels like that to me. Remember, for the past 10 years we've had a bull stock market and negligible interest rates. So cards have benefited from being an investment always increasing in that time frame.

I really think this scandal, along with a stock market recession, could really change the game right now. Put the investors back on the sidelines. Break the hypnotic effect these fraudulently slabbed cards have put on collectors. Keep up the good work.